Buying Advice Pros and Cons on equipment

[Shblack]

Have been following this forum for some time, you all seem like a real helpful group, so here goes my first post:

End of last year I retired from a career in the high technology / aerospace world in southern California. Next spring we will be relocating to a place we purchased in mid-state Tennessee several years ago, very much a leave the left coast and go back to the land move. As we prepare for the move I have been considering what the optimum equipment solution would be for our new place. About the new place:

It's a total of about 700 acres, mostly wood land, a few overgrown fields
Land is in 3 tracts, separated by about 5 miles of county road
Some of the woodland has been logged and needs some clean up / control of invasive species
Several streams flow through the property
Terrain is mostly rolling
Driveway is about 1 mile long, gravel. Most is county maintained, but is pretty low priority when a big storm comes through (snow and downed trees can stay there for a while)

Tasks I see doing:
Fixing the driveway where the creek and driveway tend to coexist - probably need to dig out the driveway and get concrete poured
Cleaning out a mass of fallen trees in a creek that has diverted the creek and has it eroding one of our pastures
Earthwork (building pad and trenching) for a new shop building and mother-in-law quarters
Clearing snow from the driveway during the once every couple of year storms
Building a dam across a hollow to build a pond
Cleaning up the interior roads and making them passable to something other than a goat
Pulling logs / getting firewood
Digging holes & planting an orchard plus establishing a chestnut grove in one of the fields
Putting in fencing
Digging up stumps
Digging trenches for a ground coupled heat pump
Bush hogging fields and trails

First I looked into a small dozer, seemed like a good fit for the road related activities, but not a good fit for trenching and hole digging. Additionally, I would need means to transport it between tracts. Finally, I know absolutely nothing about the care and feeding of a tracked vehicle.

Next I considered a compact excavator, it is a good fit for trenching and hole digging, but didn't seem like a good fit for road work

So where I am currently headed is in the direction of a tractor / loader / backhoe for the dirt work and a lighter tractor (like a ford 8N, or alternatively get a ATV tow behind mower) for the mowing task. I am thinking that 4WD would be good, given the rough terrain and the hassle of getting stuck in some remote hollow. Rollover protection is a must, I would like to survive to become an experienced operator.

So what should I be thinking about in going down this path? Nearest town is Dickson, Tn, they have New Holland and Case dealers, there are others further away. This purchase is 7 months off, but would like figure out a path forward and start sniffing around for whats on the market.

Steve

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Have been following this forum for some time, you all seem like a real helpful group, so here goes my first post:

End of last year I retired from a career in the high technology / aerospace world in southern California. Next spring we will be relocating to a place we purchased in mid-state Tennessee several years ago, very much a leave the left coast and go back to the land move. As we prepare for the move I have been considering what the optimum equipment solution would be for our new place. About the new place:

It's a total of about 700 acres, mostly wood land, a few overgrown fields
Land is in 3 tracts, separated by about 5 miles of county road
Some of the woodland has been logged and needs some clean up / control of invasive species
Several streams flow through the property
Terrain is mostly rolling
Driveway is about 1 mile long, gravel. Most is county maintained, but is pretty low priority when a big storm comes through (snow and downed trees can stay there for a while)

Tasks I see doing:
Fixing the driveway where the creek and driveway tend to coexist - probably need to dig out the driveway and get concrete poured
Cleaning out a mass of fallen trees in a creek that has diverted the creek and has it eroding one of our pastures
Earthwork (building pad and trenching) for a new shop building and mother-in-law quarters
Clearing snow from the driveway during the once every couple of year storms
Building a dam across a hollow to build a pond
Cleaning up the interior roads and making them passable to something other than a goat
Pulling logs / getting firewood
Digging holes & planting an orchard plus establishing a chestnut grove in one of the fields
Putting in fencing
Digging up stumps
Digging trenches for a ground coupled heat pump
Bush hogging fields and trails

First I looked into a small dozer, seemed like a good fit for the road related activities, but not a good fit for trenching and hole digging. Additionally, I would need means to transport it between tracts. Finally, I know absolutely nothing about the care and feeding of a tracked vehicle.

Next I considered a compact excavator, it is a good fit for trenching and hole digging, but didn't seem like a good fit for road work

So where I am currently headed is in the direction of a tractor / loader / backhoe for the dirt work and a lighter tractor (like a ford 8N, or alternatively get a ATV tow behind mower) for the mowing task. I am thinking that 4WD would be good, given the rough terrain and the hassle of getting stuck in some remote hollow. Rollover protection is a must, I would like to survive to become an experienced operator.

So what should I be thinking about in going down this path? Nearest town is Dickson, Tn, they have New Holland and Case dealers, there are others further away. This purchase is 7 months off, but would like figure out a path forward and start sniffing around for whats on the market.

Steve

I ruled out a telehandler from your description and you have a Kubota dealer too. Dickson Farm Sales

What is your budget?

 

[Baby Grand]

What kind of vehicle do you (or will you) have for transporting your tractor?
I'm just wondering what weight you can reasonably move with safety, as that seems to be a primary requirement, and backing into a tractor size from there.

 

[jeff9366]

What about those fields? Will you raise crops? What kind of crops? How many acres?

Tasks I see doing:
Fixing the driveway where the creek and driveway tend to coexist - probably need to dig out the driveway and get concrete poured.

Easy work for a Compact or Utility tractor plus Front End Loader and a (Three Point Hitch) Box Blade.


Cleaning out a mass of fallen trees in a creek that has diverted the creek and has it eroding one of our pastures.

Easy work for a Compact or Utility tractor using tractor center drawbar in rear, with a Clevis Grab Hook. Secure fallen trees with chain, attach chain to Clevis Hook, engage tractor LOW range and 4-WD; pull out.


Earthwork (building pad and trenching) for a new shop building and mother-in-law quarters.

Easy work for a Compact or Utility tractor plus Front End Loader and a (Three Point Hitch) Box Blade.
Backhoe or Potato Plow or Sub-soiler plus shovel for trenching.


Clearing snow from the driveway during the once every couple of year storms

Clearing infrequent snow can be done with the FEL and/or a Rear/Angle Blade.


Building a dam across a hollow to build a pond.

This is a much bigger task than you anticipate and requires high skill grading. Contract out pond to a professional who will use a tracked excavator, tractors and laser guided grading equipment.


Cleaning up the interior roads, making them passable to something other than a goat.

Easy work for a Compact or Utility tractor plus Front End Loader with Ratchet Rake attached plus a (Three Point Hitch) Box Blade and an LPGS. (Land Plane Grading Scraper.) You may also want a Rear/Angle Blade, which is also good for snow.


Pulling logs / getting firewood

Easy work for a Compact or Utility tractor using tractor center drawbar in rear, with a Clevis Grab Hook. Secure fallen trees with chain, attach chain to Clevis Hook, engage tractor LOW range and 4-WD; pull out. Cut up tree trunks with chainsaw, move home with FEL; split at home with an electric log splitter.


Digging holes & planting an orchard plus establishing a chestnut grove in one of the fields

Bucket Spade mounted on FEL bucket ($400) or tractor backhoe. ($7,000)
I have two, two-year-old Dunstan Chesnuts here, being watched.


Putting in fencing What kind of fencing? How much fencing?


Digging up stumps Backhoe is best if you are in a hurry. If I had 700 acres to maintain I would let stumps rot out to grade; about three years in warm, humid, Florida.


Digging trenches for a ground coupled heat pump

Backhoe or Potato Plow or Sub-soiler and shovel.

Bush hogging fields and trails.
Bush Hog is a brand of Rotary Cutter. You need either 60" or 72" width Rotary Cutter, perhaps Bush Hog brand.


First I looked into a small dozer, seemed like a good fit for the road related activities, but not a good fit for trenching and hole digging. Additionally, I would need means to transport it between tracts.

Fun, but not very versatile. Bulldozers make a big mess as they work.

I think you need a 40-100 horsepower UTILITY TRACTOR with a Category 2, Three Point Hitch. You also need a good size Utility Vehicle with an all terrain, dumping trailer. This is the minimum in motive equipment.

LINKS:
http://www.kubota.com/product/L60/lineup.aspx

Utility Vehicles - RTVSeries | Kubota Tractor Corporation

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonl...45263BDD8/11557/pub2917tractorimplements1.pdf

http://www.caes.uga.edu/departments/bae/extension/pubs/documents/farm tractor.pdf

 

[dave1949]

You have a lifetime of projects listed.

The three parcels separated by five miles is something to work around. If I wanted to whip 700 acres into shape and do the things you listed by myself, I would buy a tracked excavator in the 20-30 ton class. I wouldn't buy tired old iron either and it's going to be expensive upfront along with a learning curve. There is also maintenance and repair to consider. A $thousand here and $five thousand there is what you should expect with heavy equipment.

If you plan a sequence of projects at the various parcels where you work for a year or several months at one parcel, then hire a heavy equipment mover to transport the machine to the next parcel, that would keep your transport equipment costs down. You would almost certainly make good use of 10 wheeler dump truck though and that plus a trailer would allow you to move the machine yourself.

The contractors who have heavy equipment charge anywhere from $75 to $175 per hour around here. You may decide it is less hassle and risk to hire the work done to the point that a well-equipped ~75 hp tractor can clean-up, finish and maintain. It all depends on how deep you want to get into heavy equipment. It tends to snowball with fuel tanks on a pickup, heavy tools, learning, etc.

 

[CobyRupert]

IMHO: Excavator and tractor

 

[flusher]

Welcome to TBN. Join the fun:thumbsup:

Tractor: something like mine. Mahindra 5525 (55 hp engine, 45 hp pto, 2WD, gear tranny 8F/2R, power steering, triple rear hydraulic remotes) with the ML250 FEL (6-ft wide bucket, 2950 lb lift to 10.5 ft height, skid steer quick attach). Price new: $19K. All the major tractor manufacturers have similar models that vary in price dealer to dealer. Test drive for sure before you buy.

For rollover safety, I'd add dualies to the rear axle. Spacers and an extra set of rear wheels will add about $2K.

Several of your jobs need commercial construction equipment. My first inclination is to hire this work done. Alternatively you could buy the equipment, finish the jobs and then sell it.

Good luck.

 

[HEC]

Welcome to the forum , and the work you have described will take time , expertise and more then one piece of equipment for sure . I would contract out the bigger jobs and buy a utility tractor of at least 50 HP and and 4wd only .If you buy a 2wd it will be a big mistake considering the type of ground and work you are describing and this is just my opinion as I have gone the 2wd route and deeply regretted it years ago .

 

[motownbrowne]

Check with the DNR about removing trees from the creek. Another name for that situation is "fish habitat". In many places they are putting trees in the creeks and removing them is often illegal.

Also, you're gonna need something much bigger than an 8n.

 

[Beltman60]

8n although cute not much of a tractor
you need 4wd heavy tractor (min 50 HP)
my:2cents:

 

[oosik]

A lot of things to consider - for sure. You seem to have an idea of what needs to be done - now, I would establish a time table for beginning/ending of each project. This is a lifetime of tasks - not something to be completed in a year or two. Some of the bigger tasks - dam building, fixing driveway/creek location may best be accomplished by contracting out the job. These are one time tasks requiring specialized equipment that you may find are only used that one time and could be a heavy financial burden. Plus these tasks are not learning type tasks - specialized equipment & skill sets.
Many of the tasks will on-going forever and will require that you learn the skills.

I would suggest a tractor - 4WD & in the 70-100 hp range at least. I would not worry about the five mile separation between tracts. You will be able to easily drive the tractor - without trailering - between these tracts. FOR SURE, get a 4WD tractor. Its probably going to be a long walk finding somebody that can pull out a 2WD tractor, when stuck. And believe me, as a newcomer or old-timer, you are very likely to get into some sticky situations. Ideally, with time & experience, you will learn to avoid situations where there will be problems and understand the "work arounds" that will be safe and still get the job done.

Learn the skills of "tractor" on jobs where you are least likely to get stuck - mowing, driveway maintenance, dry land tree clearing/firewood etc. Then when you tackle the sticky jobs you will have some knowledge of what you & your equipment, can/can not do.

BTW - Welcome to TBN. You are definitely heading in the correct direction - - a lot of thought before you make the jump.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Forget about having one machine. :no: I would be thinking more along the lines of 3-4 machines. You simply have to much of too many different needs to rely on 1 or even 2 tractors. It's not that one machine couldn't do everything, but unless you plan on living longer than any other human being has ever lived, it just will not get done. Certain machines, certain sizes simply get certain jobs done more efficiently than others.

An example is we have a Case 580 extenda hoe TLB. Great machine,:thumbsup: it simply can not dig a trench as fast as a trencher. When you put in miles of pipe, a back hoe is just not the machine to do it with. Can it do it, absolutely, just not as fast or as neat as a trencher.

You have so much to do in a relatively short time that you need to prioritize projects that you want to do and then get the equipment to get those projects done.

Now if you have unlimited resources, forget about what anyone has said and just start writing checks and watch. Then you could get by with one machine to be used for general maintenance.

Good luck with your endeavor.

 

[roadhunter]

I always come back to a telehandler as the most versatile piece of equipment. It's amazing what you can do with one of those when you have all the attachments like bucket, forks, grapple, truss boom, work platform, and just about any other attachment you can run off of hydraulics.

 

[caver]

North of you is Little Tractor he often has used Kioti DK 40's and above.

 

[farmer2009]

Welcome to the site.
As you can tell we love spending others money. .

You have a big list. My first thoughts are you could use 2 tractors and a small dozer.
First would be a large compact tractor 40-50 hp with 4wd Ag tires shuttle shift a loader and backhoe.
Second a large utility tractor 90-110hp. With a cab 4wd and loader. Rear grader blade, box blade, 3-4 yard dirt pan and batwing bushhog.
For the dozer a small one will do a 450-550 Deere or Case or a d-3/4 cat.
The small tractor with the hoe can dig and clean out ditches. If you add some duplicate equipment small box blade brush hog it can do more in tight places. It will skid logs and move fire wood. Move in woods better than a large machine.
The large tractor can be for large loader work pull what the small one can't move. Do the road work. With the pan you can build a lake. Yes it takes knowledge but can be done. Mow those over grown fields. Plus lots more.
The dozer will help both machines dig. Move trees. Road work. Build lake. Clear the goat paths. If ditches are large enough put the dozer in them and push the logs and trees out. Yes a dozer will dig its way in and out of the creeks. Dozer will sit where a rubber tired tractor won't. Plus when you hang up tractor it's only a walk away to get dozer to pull it out.

Your land is only 5 miles apart so just road the tractors. It's TN they do it all the time. The dozer could be hired to haul. Get permission from neighbors to walk through their property. Use lumber to cross roads and minimize turns. Get a 1-ton truck and 20-25 ton trailer or a single axle dump and move yourself.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[TripleR]

Lots of good info and in the main, my experience goes along with MtnViewRanch. We've tried the one, then two then three tractor route with a backhoe thrown in. We now have nine or so scattered between farms. We could get by with less, but several are pretty old with sentimental attachment. We still rent a piece of equipment like an excavator, tracked skid steer etc. every year or two. At times, we've had three tractors going at the same time;hard to imagine how much time some of this stuff takes then finding the time to do it.

Good luck.

 

[Shblack]

Have been following this forum for some time, you all seem like a real helpful group, so here goes my first post:

End of last year I retired from a career in the high technology / aerospace world in southern California. Next spring we will be relocating to a place we purchased in mid-state Tennessee several years ago, very much a leave the left coast and go back to the land move. As we prepare for the move I have been considering what the optimum equipment solution would be for our new place. About the new place:

It's a total of about 700 acres, mostly wood land, a few overgrown fields
Land is in 3 tracts, separated by about 5 miles of county road
Some of the woodland has been logged and needs some clean up / control of invasive species
Several streams flow through the property
Terrain is mostly rolling
Driveway is about 1 mile long, gravel. Most is county maintained, but is pretty low priority when a big storm comes through (snow and downed trees can stay there for a while)

Tasks I see doing:
Fixing the driveway where the creek and driveway tend to coexist - probably need to dig out the driveway and get concrete poured
Cleaning out a mass of fallen trees in a creek that has diverted the creek and has it eroding one of our pastures
Earthwork (building pad and trenching) for a new shop building and mother-in-law quarters
Clearing snow from the driveway during the once every couple of year storms
Building a dam across a hollow to build a pond
Cleaning up the interior roads and making them passable to something other than a goat
Pulling logs / getting firewood
Digging holes & planting an orchard plus establishing a chestnut grove in one of the fields
Putting in fencing
Digging up stumps
Digging trenches for a ground coupled heat pump
Bush hogging fields and trails

First I looked into a small dozer, seemed like a good fit for the road related activities, but not a good fit for trenching and hole digging. Additionally, I would need means to transport it between tracts. Finally, I know absolutely nothing about the care and feeding of a tracked vehicle.

Next I considered a compact excavator, it is a good fit for trenching and hole digging, but didn't seem like a good fit for road work

So where I am currently headed is in the direction of a tractor / loader / backhoe for the dirt work and a lighter tractor (like a ford 8N, or alternatively get a ATV tow behind mower) for the mowing task. I am thinking that 4WD would be good, given the rough terrain and the hassle of getting stuck in some remote hollow. Rollover protection is a must, I would like to survive to become an experienced operator.

So what should I be thinking about in going down this path? Nearest town is Dickson, Tn, they have New Holland and Case dealers, there are others further away. This purchase is 7 months off, but would like figure out a path forward and start sniffing around for whats on the market.

Steve

Wow - what a response - thanks folks!
Learned a lot already - to begin with I had never of a telehandler, so there is something to learn about. As to the questions:

- Budget - was thinking of something on the order of $25K, maybe a bit more
- Plans for the fields - planning on converting one field along a creek into an plantation for American chestnut back cross evaluation. Others will be food plots for now
- Fencing would be conventional 4/5 strand barbwire, friend is trying to talk me into raising lowlines
- Time table is open ended, I suspect that new projects will develop to keep the list more than a life time long. Couple of projects will be high priority
* Fixing the driveway, whenever we get a good rain the creek comes up, washes out all of the fill down to bedrock, leaves a layer of boulders to drive over
* Shop building - need room for the toys plus the existing garage is not in good shape. Have spoken to some mennonite builders down the road, think I have a good contact for the structural work
* Mother-in-law quarters - wife says remodeling the chicken coop is out of the question, so we are going to have to do something a bit more classy

- Good point on the creek and the DNR, though in this case the creek undercut a clump of sycamore and they fell in. BTW - have any of you looked at the EPA's proposed definition of "waters of the U.S."? - scary. Will definitely need to ask some questions. Folks are refreshingly laid back in TN, but portions of our land but up to Core of Engineers / TVA property so this brings in the feds...
- Yes, I had figured running whatever equipment we had over the roads, they do it all of the time out there. This was one motivation for shying away from tracked equipment
- Will be purchasing a pickup when we get there, thinking of something 4WD that has some years on it, won't feel bad about getting it scratched up in the brush.
- Good point on not trying to do everything myself, I got to know the county road superintendent, he has given me some names of folks to call for heavy lifting
- One task I didn't mention is building a bridge over one of the creeks, otherwise it's a 2-mile drive to get to the field right across the creek from our front door.

This will definitely be a learning experience for Karen and myself
Steve

 

[BillBeyer]

If you are ever close let me know and stop by to see my equipment, but I think your budget is going to have to increase quite a bit to accomplish what you want.

 

[charles todd]

25k is not going to do it. Unless you want a CUT to mow the grass around the house and for general upkeep.

I have an older 50 HP loader tractor, an older 70hp farm tractor, a 9000 lb excavator with a thumb, and buying a new 65hp cab loader tractor soon. All on 50 acres of mostly cleared land. Still wish I had a D4/D5 too!

Good luck. I'd up the equipment budget to 150k+ if you want to handle up on 700 acres. Or make good friends with local heavy equipment contractors.

CT

 

[MinnesotaEric]

This will definitely be a learning experience for Karen and myself
Steve

Your budget is way light.

We understand that you cannot do everything at once. But you should consider what tasks you want to do first, get the equipment to handle those tasks, and then expand your equipment list as you get ready to expend your capabilities.

Think about a 3/4 ton or heavier truck. The stuff you will get will be heavy.

A telehandler is great until it comes to grading or trenching jobs. They dig well, reach super great, and run everything made for skid loaders. If you go this way, always get one with high-flow hydraulics. Downside they cost more than skid loaders.

A tractor with a loader and bucket will give you basic material handling, and with a box blade, rotary cutter, and land rake, the ability to grade your driveway, and clean up fields of debris. Clearly the larger the tractor, the larger attachments it can wield, and the quicker jobs get done.

A dedicated excavator will run circles around a backhoe. A backhoe or excavator without a thumb is useless except for digging, IMO.