Improving your welding?

[Shield Arc]

I agree with paulharvey. Let's have a proper series of tests done on 110v welds at the upper end of machine capability. That is the only way to learn and get
beyond the back and forth.

If there are any members here who live in the Puget Sound area who would be willing to loan me their 120-volt Mig welder. I'd be glad to run a side bend test. I'd like to get my hands on another one, with plenty of time to play with it.:cool2:

Here is a vertical up side bend I ran.

 

[downsizingnow48]

Great offer. Hope someone is close.

 

[muddstopper]

Mudd I can see that you understand how to use joint preparation to mitigate the lack of AMPs. Welders do it all the time. It doesn't take but a short time for a competent welder to learn this. I assure you that all the experienced welders on this forum know this intimately, and know very well how they'd any situation if ever stuck with a 110v MIG. Nobody says "you can't weld 1" thick steel with that little 225 Amp welder". All they say is "you can't do it in one pass". But with a 110v welder the general forum wisdom, even from the experienced guys is "you can't do it".

Well, you (often) can. A "110v welder and technique" is not for every welding situation but probably 95% can be done well (with regard to tractor forum projects that I've seen on this forum). More amps is definitely helpful. Sometimes if you don't have amps you can change the design to accommodate. For example add "bracing", or overbuild, which is perfectly acceptable.

Your statement is not not so far off. I think a more defensible statement, if you want to make a universal AMPS statement is "it takes AMPS to efficiently weld thick steel in a fillet weld". Show us the back side of the welded plate

Here's a 3/8" test plate vee'd at (45deg) and welded one pass with 110v. 60deg would have been better, but I was just screwing around. The 1/4" bolt is laying there just to show the size of the weld vee.

I should probably put that in the press and see what it does in bending. I will do that someday if I can remember to bring it to my shop that has the press.

I intended to re-do at 60deg before upsetting the forum but didn't have time, so this is all you get for now . I would weld another at 60-degree example if nobody else is willing. But after the weather cools down, and... if it seems like the forum needs more action . As said before there needs to be a thread "improving your 110v welding".

I am not a pro welder and have never claimed to be, but I can imagine what will happen if you put your 3/8, vee'd plate, with a one pass weld, in a press and start bending. If the weld is on the inside of the bend, I put my money on the weld breaking. Why not show us the back side of that weld.

 

[dragoneggs]

Mudd I can see that you understand how to use joint preparation to mitigate the lack of AMPs. Welders do it all the time. It doesn't take but a short time for a competent welder to learn this. I assure you that all the experienced welders on this forum know this intimately, and know very well how they'd any situation if ever stuck with a 110v MIG. Nobody says "you can't weld 1" thick steel with that little 225 Amp welder". All they say is "you can't do it in one pass". But with a 110v welder the general forum wisdom, even from the experienced guys is "you can't do it".

Well, you (often) can. A "110v welder and technique" is not for every welding situation but probably 95% can be done well (with regard to tractor forum projects that I've seen on this forum). More amps is definitely helpful. Sometimes if you don't have amps you can change the design to accommodate. For example add "bracing", or overbuild, which is perfectly acceptable.

Your statement is not not so far off. I think a more defensible statement, if you want to make a universal AMPS statement is "it takes AMPS to efficiently weld thick steel in a fillet weld".

Here's a 3/8" test plate vee'd at (45deg) and welded one pass with 110v. 60deg would have been better, but I was just screwing around. The 1/4" bolt is laying there just to show the size of the weld vee.

I should probably put that in the press and see what it does in bending. I will do that someday if I can remember to bring it to my shop that has the press.

I intended to re-do at 60deg before upsetting the forum but didn't have time, so this is all you get for now . I would weld another at 60-degree example if nobody else is willing. But after the weather cools down, and... if it seems like the forum needs more action . As said before there needs to be a thread "improving your 110v welding".

Hey Sodo... when I saw the bolt I thought you were going to show us a new high tech technique of using filler rod (bolt) and were going to weld both sides of it to the plate. :laughing: Just joking.

 

[Sodo]

Why not show us the back side of that weld.

cuz it looks like it will bust! :laughing:

If this was something I was "using" I'd weld the backside too then it would never break. But I want to see how (if) the single weld survives a bend test so I didn't weld it.

 

[Arc weld]

What if you can't get at the backside? Test plates prove a welding procedure will provide the ultimate strength. On an actual project, you might not be able to get at the backside. Were did the extra wide bevel idea come from? A wider bevel doesn't make for a stronger weld. There's just a lot wrong with that attempt at a test plate. One big wide relatively cold pass won't have the strength of several smaller, hotter passes. More passes gives a finer grain structure for one thing.

 

[BethelHntr]

I have a 211 you can use anytime, Shoot me a PM I'm in Maple Valley.

 

[Sodo]

What if you can't get at the backside? Test plates prove a welding procedure will provide the ultimate strength. On an actual project, you might not be able to get at the backside. Were did the extra wide bevel idea come from? A wider bevel doesn't make for a stronger weld. There's just a lot wrong with that attempt at a test plate. One big wide relatively cold pass won't have the strength of several smaller, hotter passes. More passes gives a finer grain structure for one thing.

If I could not get at the backside - I would ensure (by design choices) that the weld would not be "stressed from the backside". Hobby/maintenance guy doesn't have to weld to MIL-TD-4111 he can "go with the flow" add bracing as necessary, weld both sides (if accessible).

As soon as I cut the 45deg and held it together I looked too wide. But it only took a few moments to weld the 45 and take a pic - thats the whole story there. I intended to do several, but then looked at the clock & had to drop the hobby stuff. As mentioned above I'll do another at 60deg some day when I'm hobbying for TBN again.

That test plate's entire purpose on this earth is to be discussed, broken, learned from. Note that it conjured up a great tip (scarce as hen's teeth) for 120v MIG owners.

"One big wide relatively cold pass won't have the strength of several smaller, hotter passes. More passes gives a finer grain structure for one thing."

My first test plate I've ever done. I'd call it a success (for the 120v members who are hungry for tips from the pros).

Arc you're saying that if I made several passes which would entail stopping (and cooling ?) is actually 'hotter'? If you can explain, I'm interested. I would assume that the wide weld would be hotter thus increase the weld integrity at the root. Wrong?

 

[Todd NE WY]

I would call that test plate (with the overly-wide 45 deg bevel) a total success for 120v welders. [/QUOTE]

Sodo,

Only you would call something that is obviously nothing more than a stunt gone wrong a total success.

You just can't seem to understand the phrase "right tool for the job" applies especially for welding. You keep propagating the myth that it is ok to use a machine for things that even the manufacture doesn't recommend. Your continued prattling on that you can weld 1/4 and 3/8 with machines rated for 3/16 is going to get someone hurt or killed when a trailer flies apart because of cold 110 v mig welds.

 

[Sodo]

Todd, you are welcome to express what works for you. Agreed that it's possible for folks to weld something up, not having developed sufficient understanding to judge a weld's integrity. And it takes another kind of experience to learn how to judge "suitability".

Agreed cold welds could be lessened by 220v, but not everybody has 220v. I've seen 220v birdpoop more in real life than on forums, because on forums folks don't post their pics of their birdpoop. Good stick welding is kind of a long process to learn and if a guy starts building stuff with a stick the early projects can be sketchy. I would not assert that newbie stick welds are universally "safer" than a 110v MIG weld - maybe less, even.

With regards to trailers falling apart on the highway, is this a common problem that actually HAPPENS? I only hear about it on welding forums, never in real life. Are there genuine examples of trailer wrecks that I'm missing? I think most TBN welding is on tractor attachments, lawnmowers etc. Most interested people can learn to weld but some will not, I think that's just a fact of life. Even so I've welded lots of stuff that goes down the road, but my welds are strong, never had problem and never will.

Todd, if you've completed projects better than my test plate, can you post some project pics ----- that members can learn from? If you don't have any projects, or prefer not to show your projects, you could weld some test plates and post those????