Everlast plasma?

[Reverser]

So, all plasma cutters will cut metal. Ours are designed to cut metal reliably, for many years, and with the lowest operating cost possible.

Jim Colt

Jim, what you say about Hypertherm's dependability and lasting many years sounds good. But I can't help but think about Yomax's experience.

As he said earlier, his PowerMax 45 quit on him right after it was out of warranty. He no doubt bought a Hypertherm thinking it would last for many years, but it barely made it out of warranty before a high dollar part burnt out.

If I were Hypertherm, I would try to keep loyal customers by being a little more flexible with warranty issues. At least letting him have the part at Hypertherm's cost. Public relations is very important to a company's well being. And in this very competitive world, a gesture such as this would be favorable to a company's bottom line.

 

[newbury]

<snip>Ours are designed to cut metal reliably, for many years, and with the lowest operating cost possible. <snip>

Most of the stuff I would be cutting would be 1/4" or less. Occasionally up to 3/4"... But I've been getting by with grinders, a cut off saw and sawzall. Don't see myself cutting anything bigger. I might use it 1-2x a week or not at all for a couple months. <snip>

Jim, what you say about Hypertherm's dependability and lasting many years sounds good. But I can't help but think about Yomax's experience.

As he said earlier, his PowerMax 45 quit on him right after it was out of warranty. He no doubt bought a Hypertherm thinking it would last for many years, but it barely made it out of warranty before a high dollar part burnt out.

If I were Hypertherm, I would try to keep loyal customers by being a little more flexible with warranty issues. At least letting him have the part at Hypertherm's cost. Public relations is very important to a company's well being. And in this very competitive world, a gesture such as this would be favorable to a company's bottom line.

And that's a key to the point I was trying to make earlier. A lot of us are very occasional users. To invest $3,000 in a Hypertherm PM85 versus $1,200 for a Longetivity Forcecut 80 means I tie up $1,800 that could be spent on consumables.

And if like the OP, mike, I only use it 6 to 12 times a year, or max of 36 times over the warranty the difference in price should FAR exceed the consumables.

I needed a small welder because I just need to make some metal stick together on occasion. I've been thinking of a plasma cutter because I need to make holes in metal sometimes. But very often the cost of a great machine for very low usage is not warranted, especially if you can by several good machines for the same cost. Operating cost should include taking into account the initial purchase price and usage pattern.

If I use a $3,000 machine 36 times that costs me $83 every time I fire it up, the $1,200 machine $40 each for 36 uses.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Yes!!

You have hit on the reason why I never post in this forum anymore, and only rarely come to read. I own Big Blue also, but it's not a welcoming place for us.

Everlast, and the various shills that post here and constantly push their products, pay for this forum and do not appreciate objective opinions about other, (read superior) products....

If you're looking for objective and informative conversation .... Well, lets just say you will not find it here!

Agreed. This is the weirdest place when it comes to welder discussions. You don't even have to criticize some companies, the very act of recommending one of the big 3 (4 I guess counting plasmas) brings out the villagers with pitchforks.....weird that people shun the opinion and recommendations from other companies.....

I wonder if people buying tractors apply the same logic as welding equipment, i.e. how long the company has been around, dealer support, quality of build, availability of parts years down the road, etc.....seems to go out the window in some cases.

Just to be clear I am not criticizing companies, products, or decisions...merely the decision making process and discussion.

 

[muddstopper]

There are just to many folks here that dont like to admit that they might be wrong. They try to argue their side and get mad if everybody else doesnt agree with them. I own Miller and lincoln and used to own a Hobart before it became a Miller offspring. What I own works for me. When one of my machines fails, and one eventually will, I will probably try one of the cheaper brands before buying a replacement. Whether I buy a red or blue machine, or a green one depends on what works for me. I dont care what some salesman has to say, or what the current popular opinion at the time is. Research aint that hard to do in this day of the internet. You want a bunch of different opinons on a particular brand and model of machine, just type it into your search engine and read what other have to say. Explore all the links available and make a decision. If You get more negative reviews than positive, then you know to stay away.

 

[MossRoad]

And that's a key to the point I was trying to make earlier. A lot of us are very occasional users. To invest $3,000 in a Hypertherm PM85 versus $1,200 for a Longetivity Forcecut 80 means I tie up $1,800 that could be spent on consumables.

And if like the OP, mike, I only use it 6 to 12 times a year, or max of 36 times over the warranty the difference in price should FAR exceed the consumables.

I needed a small welder because I just need to make some metal stick together on occasion. I've been thinking of a plasma cutter because I need to make holes in metal sometimes. But very often the cost of a great machine for very low usage is not warranted, especially if you can by several good machines for the same cost. Operating cost should include taking into account the initial purchase price and usage pattern.

If I use a $3,000 machine 36 times that costs me $83 every time I fire it up, the $1,200 machine $40 each for 36 uses.

What kind of holes do you need to make?
I ask, because when I need to make a hole, I use a bi-metal hole saw in a drill. I've drilled litterally hundreds of holes with bi-metal hole saws in up to inch thick steel. The cost of a couple bi-metal hole saws VS a plasma cutter is, well, silly, plus the hole is more accurate with a hole saw Vs a home owner with a hand-held plasma cutter. If I need to cut plate, I use my torch and a straight edge, then grind it smooth if needed. Again, its a little more work, but I already have the torch! I just can't justify a plasma cutter for the few times I'd use it where the tools I already own can do the job.

So I guess it comes down to need VS want for me. Sure, I'd like to own a plasma cutter, but I don't NEED one, as I already own the tools to do the job. Kinda like if you had the cash, would you buy a new car, or be frugal and buy a used one, even though you can afford a new one?

 

[MossRoad]

And that's a key to the point I was trying to make earlier. A lot of us are very occasional users. To invest $3,000 in a Hypertherm PM85 versus $1,200 for a Longetivity Forcecut 80 means I tie up $1,800 that could be spent on consumables.

And if like the OP, mike, I only use it 6 to 12 times a year, or max of 36 times over the warranty the difference in price should FAR exceed the consumables.

I needed a small welder because I just need to make some metal stick together on occasion. I've been thinking of a plasma cutter because I need to make holes in metal sometimes. But very often the cost of a great machine for very low usage is not warranted, especially if you can by several good machines for the same cost. Operating cost should include taking into account the initial purchase price and usage pattern.

If I use a $3,000 machine 36 times that costs me $83 every time I fire it up, the $1,200 machine $40 each for 36 uses.

As for a smaller welder, I'm with you. I have stick welder for big stuff, and a nice little 110v mig for the small, quick stuff. Economical, nicer welds, more portable (I can take it to a friend's house or out in the field with a small generator), etc.... there is a place for small, economical tools and sometimes it gets pretty deep in here when folks talk down tools that are capable, but not as nice as theirs. :laughing:

 

[5030]

Isn't 'Everlast' a brand of boxing trunks?

 

[Rustyiron]

I don't understand why a guy that might make use of "it' 6-12 times a year is even shopping for a plas. O/A or O/P torches will do the trick unless you're cutting non ferris materials for half the money of the economy units and 1/4 or less of the price of an upper end/commercial pc. Not to mention being able to braze, gas weld, and heat (loosen old stuff) and heat to straighten/bend, with them.

 

[newbury]

I don't understand why a guy that might make use of "it' 6-12 times a year is even shopping for a plas. O/A or O/P torches will do the trick unless you're cutting non ferris materials for half the money of the economy units and 1/4 or less of the price of an upper end/commercial pc. Not to mention being able to braze, gas weld, and heat (loosen old stuff) and heat to straighten/bend, with them.

It can be similar to the guy who buys a new SCUT and only uses it a couple of times a year.

 

[FredH]

I have a older import brand Plasma that is the non-igbt or mosfet ( spelling ) type . Have had it for , I don't know , 4 or 5 years ?? No fancy air dryer either .
50 amp model or so it says , I have cut 5/8" clean cut and not had it maxed out . Versus a O/A torch which I have access to , there is no comparison .
Less space , ( plasma sits on bottom shelf of welding cart ) and in the time it takes to pull out the O/A torch , turn gas on and adjust , I can hook up ground from plasma , grab torch and cut since again , it is right with the welder . I have used mine for various projects with the most use in 1 year being like 2 projects
with maybe 10 cuts , total length maybe 5' or 6' .

For the ease of use , size , mobility , hard to beat the plasma .

Fred H.

 

[MossRoad]

I have a older import brand Plasma that is the non-igbt or mosfet ( spelling ) type . Have had it for , I don't know , 4 or 5 years ?? No fancy air dryer either .
50 amp model or so it says , I have cut 5/8" clean cut and not had it maxed out . Versus a O/A torch which I have access to , there is no comparison .
Less space , ( plasma sits on bottom shelf of welding cart ) and in the time it takes to pull out the O/A torch , turn gas on and adjust , I can hook up ground from plasma , grab torch and cut since again , it is right with the welder . I have used mine for various projects with the most use in 1 year being like 2 projects
with maybe 10 cuts , total length maybe 5' or 6' .

For the ease of use , size , mobility , hard to beat the plasma .

Fred H.

I agree that for ease of use, size, mobility its hard to beat.... but is it worth spending that much money to make 5-6' of cuts per year??? And all it can do is cut. A good torch set can, as mentioned above, do so much more. There's a lot more items I'd spend my money on before a plasma, like a good torch set and a decent welder. And I have the funds, but can't justify the cost VS use for myself.

 

[FredH]

For me , The plasma was a better choice . Limited space in shop was first . Second was while a O/A tank set and torch can do other things , I have never needed to do any of those other things like heat , bend , etc... , So in reality , the plasma was a better bang for the buck .

To me , One just needs to weigh their own needs , preferences , uses , budget , etc... , to Try and make a Good choice . Either way / Choice you make is not right or wrong , one may just be a better fit than the other .

My only thought to the original OP's posting is even though you only use up to 1/4" mostly , Better to use a more powerful machine turned down than a smaller machine turned up to max .

Fred H.

 

[newbury]

What kind of holes do you need to make?

for starters rail pockets in my trailer frame, I don't know what I'll need tomorrow, but cutting the ears off my bucket and some QA adapter plates are on my list.

I ask, because when I need to make a hole, I use a bi-metal hole saw in a drill. I've drilled litterally hundreds of holes with bi-metal hole saws in up to inch thick steel. The cost of a couple bi-metal hole saws VS a plasma cutter is, well, silly, plus the hole is more accurate with a hole saw Vs a home owner with a hand-held plasma cutter. If I need to cut plate, I use my torch and a straight edge, then grind it smooth if needed. Again, its a little more work, but I already have the torch! I just can't justify a plasma cutter for the few times I'd use it where the tools I already own can do the job.

I don't have a torch. Who gives them away?

So I guess it comes down to need VS want for me. Sure, I'd like to own a plasma cutter, but I don't NEED one, as I already own the tools to do the job. Kinda like if you had the cash, would you buy a new car, or be frugal and buy a used one, even though you can afford a new one?

I think it's more kinda like if I had the cash would I buy a torch kit for three to four hundred dollars or a plasma for seven hundred (what the Everlast PP80 was going for). Or should I hold out for Amazon to put the Everlast Supercut 50 on sale for $250?

 

[blueriver]

I own two plasma cutters. .. One dedicated to my CNC table and one dedicated to the welding cart.. I also have O/A .. I prefer to grab the Plasma but still have jobs for the O/A

I love plasma cutting and I love a reliable machine with company support

 

[jimcolt]

If you go back a ways in this thread to Post #45 you will see that reputable people in the industry (regarding plasma cutters) will want to ask a series of questions (before quoting prices or mentioning special sales) for those that are interested in plasma. Answers to these questions will certainly help determine if a plasma cutter is a necessary tool or not for the users needs. Often it is not a necessity, but you just want one...then the low cost imports may well be the best choice. If you answer that you need to cut specific materials often, with piercing needed up to 3/4" and it is an income producing, repetitive project...then likely you do need a properly sized plasma cutter.

There also are those that just like to have good quality industrial rated equipment and tools in the shop. You know the guy...huge Snap On tool box, 80 gallon Kellogg industrial compressor, refrigerated dryer, cnc plasma table in the corner, maybe a Bridgeport mill and a lathe. No paid work....but if he had to he could. Now this guy will have a top of the line plasma.

With most home owner applications often a set of oxy-fuel torches and some cutoff wheels for an angle grinder are more than adequate. Oxy-fuel should almost always be an owned tool before you consider plasma (that is my firm opinion) as it can cut steel, but it can loosen rusty bolts as well as bend metals back into shape. Admittedly, my oxy setup has not cut a piece of metal in over 15 years, but it gets used often for its other abilities.

So, low cost plasma, high cost plasma....there is a difference in performance, in reliability and likely in long term support and parts availability. (probably will be an argument on that statement!). If the higher cost name brand plasma did not have advantages......then why would anyone ever buy one?

Jim Colt

 

[jimcolt]

There is nothing on this planet that is immune from breakdowns. The Powermax45 that Yomax has is certainly no exception, and yes, Hypertherm often bends the rules on warranty when it is determined that certain failures and circumstances warrant that. I, as always, would be happy to review the warranty situation with Yomax' system.....if he would like to contact me. I am not allowed to post contact info (as I am not paying to offer my advice on this site) but he can PM me...then I can provide my direct contact info. All warranty claims are documented and linked to serial numbers....so I can easily track the history of his unit....which I would be happy to report here.

The Powermax45 has been on the market...unchanged for about 7-8 years. There are over 60,000 of them in the field, and while there are breakdowns, the failure rate is quite low. Occasionally I will find a unit that was diagnosed incorrectly....the repair facility claims a board is needed , while in reality it could be a sensor switch, loose internal connection, etc. Hard to speculate until the unit is looked at.

Jim Colt

Jim, what you say about Hypertherm's dependability and lasting many years sounds good. But I can't help but think about Yomax's experience.

As he said earlier, his PowerMax 45 quit on him right after it was out of warranty. He no doubt bought a Hypertherm thinking it would last for many years, but it barely made it out of warranty before a high dollar part burnt out.

If I were Hypertherm, I would try to keep loyal customers by being a little more flexible with warranty issues. At least letting him have the part at Hypertherm's cost. Public relations is very important to a company's well being. And in this very competitive world, a gesture such as this would be favorable to a company's bottom line.

 

[yomax4]

My 45 has an obviously burnt Thyristor on the main board. I spent weeks dealing with your warranty guys and they were blunt. No can help.. It was about 60 days out of warranty when it blew while cutting 1/8" diamond plate at 40 amps with 65# of air. A 1/2 price board would have been a nice jesture ( still would ) especially since nearly all other brands have better warranty than Hypertherm. It's too late now.. That was several months back. I doubt if You could do anything to help anyway.. Why would you even ask?

 

[Arc weld]

"So, low cost plasma, high cost plasma....there is a difference in performance, in reliability and likely in long term support and parts availability. (probably will be an argument on that statement!). If the higher cost name brand plasma did not have advantages......then why would anyone ever buy one?"

Sometimes there can be a lot of hype for a new product but in reality the product is flawed and it shows up sooner rather than later. TD Stak Pak's, from quite a while ago, come to mind. Great idea of just adding more modules to increase capacity but in reality they were a major disaster. Probably one of the reasons Hypertherm is so popular now and also why TD/Victor now offers a 4 year warranty on their plasma machines. When you get a bad reputation, it's hard to convince most people you've made major improvements to try and regain their approval.

Yomax, if you still have your 45 and Jim is going to try and help you, why not at least let him try?

 

[jimcolt]

yomax4,

If there are burned parts on the power board it can indicate a lot of things. If I had the serial number of your system...I could easily have one of our customer service reps look at the status of the warranty report. If it failed very close to warranty I may be able to convince them to change their decision on the non-coverage. Our warranty people are trained to follow the rules all the time. If there are extenuating circumstances, often the dealer that sold you the unit can get the rules bent a bit...obviously that did not occur. I am offering to take another look, your decision if you want to proceed. You would have to contact me directly at Hypertherm, I am not allowed to post contact info here!


Jim Colt

My 45 has an obviously burnt Thyristor on the main board. I spent weeks dealing with your warranty guys and they were blunt. No can help.. It was about 60 days out of warranty when it blew while cutting 1/8" diamond plate at 40 amps with 65# of air. A 1/2 price board would have been a nice jesture ( still would ) especially since nearly all other brands have better warranty than Hypertherm. It's too late now.. That was several months back. I doubt if You could do anything to help anyway.. Why would you even ask?

 

[jimcolt]

I remember the StackPak well. It was 35 amp inverter modules that could stack on top of each other....up to 4 high. You could buy a 35 amp, 70, 105 or 140 amp plasma cutter. They had serious issues with inverters failing, and when one failed often it would take out the others. Each stack had two 17.5 amp inverter modules......and inverters (back in the late 80's, early 90's) as used at plasma load voltage levels were in their infancy. Any input line voltage spikes, droops or phase shifts would greatly increase the risk of the input rectifiers failing...rather dramatically.

I think the StackPak concept was a great idea. Unfortunately the technology level of inverters wasn't quite there at that time. It probably could be done now...in fact Victor does have a mechanized industrial system called "UltraCut" that allows you to add modules to increase power levels.

Jim Colt

"So, low cost plasma, high cost plasma....there is a difference in performance, in reliability and likely in long term support and parts availability. (probably will be an argument on that statement!). If the higher cost name brand plasma did not have advantages......then why would anyone ever buy one?"

Sometimes there can be a lot of hype for a new product but in reality the product is flawed and it shows up sooner rather than later. TD Stak Pak's, from quite a while ago, come to mind. Great idea of just adding more modules to increase capacity but in reality they were a major disaster. Probably one of the reasons Hypertherm is so popular now and also why TD/Victor now offers a 4 year warranty on their plasma machines. When you get a bad reputation, it's hard to convince most people you've made major improvements to try and regain their approval.

Yomax, if you still have your 45 and Jim is going to try and help you, why not at least let him try?