Loader Kubota FEL issue

[jcummins]

I've bought a grapple and have plumbed in a diverter valve. Went to hook it up and could not get the handles that snap it in to go down on the right side. Oh so close, but I could tell something isn't lining up right. I started to take a binder (which I down have here) and pull it in enough for the handle to snap in, but before I did, trying to size up what the issue is, and what needs to be done about it.

Below are some pictures of the FEL with no attachment at full curl up and down. Not sure which side is wrong, but you can see the alignment issue. What's the fix?

 

[jcummins]

Well now not so sure if the FEL or the grapple is the issue.

I've seen slop in the ends of those arms on other tractors and since i hadn't had the bucket off before (bought used 9 months ago) i went back to see how good the bucket reattached. Fit perfect.

Scratching my head as to how and figure which is wrong.

 

[jcummins]

As I've gotten older, perhaps a little wiser, I've learned it is sometimes best not to force the issue. I've tore up stuff doing that. In this instance.....I decided some force of the right kind may work....and it did. Didn't really solve the problem, but once it's on, you don't notice it at all.

It's on, works great. My last grapple I run with a rear remote, and I got use to it and never thought I needed to spend the dollars to do it different. Now, my rears are tied up, so I went the diverter route. With this diverter, what very little I've worked it, I most certainly like better.

 

[kennyd]

Here is a recent thread on the same basic problem: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/parts-repairs/314969-kubota-l3800-loader-problems-twisted.html

 

[skyhook]

Don't worry, it's just a safety issue,,
get it straightened and all will be good...
Just don't use the loader anymore.

 

[Xfaxman]

Well now not so sure if the FEL or the grapple is the issue.

I've seen slop in the ends of those arms on other tractors and since i hadn't had the bucket off before (bought used 9 months ago) i went back to see how good the bucket reattached. Fit perfect.

Scratching my head as to how and figure which is wrong.

The attachment plates are twisted on the FEL.

If the bucket fits tight on both sides, where I added the arrows to your picture, then it is twisted also.


Check the grapple fit at the same place and the latch pin on the tweaked side. If it pops out it will really bend the cross tube on the attachment plate.

 

[jcummins]

Yep...gap there with the grapple, not with the bucket. The handle snapping it in on the grapple, after I put a little pressure on it, was tough to get down....but it's there. I'm going to use, keeping an eye on it.

How do I get it twisted back....pressure on the top left attachment plate? And if I do get it back, where's the reinforcement point that needs beefed up?

 

[jcummins]

I used the grapple today, moving and stacking several dead trees. I was watching the connection on the right FEL arm the whole time. Did not seem to be a problem. I've done some reading and many say this is a common problem, and all FEL are off in one way or the other. BUT...it bothers me. I want to fix it.

Seems the common fix is to put some hydraulic pressure ....AT THE RIGHT POINTS.... and that's my issue now, not sure what way to pressure this fel to realign. I've looked at all the welds, and the straightness of the entire FEL, and the only thing that looks wrong is the attachment 'feet' on the FEL. The grapple which I current have on, appears only slightly higher on the left fel arm....more so driving the tractor than on the barn floor. I haven't taken a measure, but on my flat barn floor, bottom grapple down, I'd say about 1/2" or so higher on left than right. The pictures of the 'feet' shows the right foot more towards the tractor on the bottom of it than on the left. BUT which one is right, the left one or the right one.

IF I did anything right now, I'd brace the left side at the top so it can't go up, then put a hydraulic jack on the right side and jack up the right side.....but certainly not sure. Is that type of pressure going to torque the bottom of the right foot out? Anyone?

 

[jcummins]

BTW I have read this thread all the way through. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/parts-repairs/186059-anyone-ever-straighten-twisted-fel.html

With my grapple pointed down like he did with his bucket, I see almost NO difference left to right. Although I have not gone through measurements (and I probably should do that), it seems the poisiton of the kurl makes a difference as to how far off left and right are. Here again I mention the really only true place you see that is in the feet on fel when I attempted to put the grapple on.

 

[Xfaxman]

I used the grapple today, moving and stacking several dead trees. I was watching the connection on the right FEL arm the whole time. Did not seem to be a problem. I've done some reading and many say this is a common problem, and all FEL are off in one way or the other. BUT...it bothers me. I want to fix it.

Seems the common fix is to put some hydraulic pressure ....AT THE RIGHT POINTS.... and that's my issue now, not sure what way to pressure this fel to realign. I've looked at all the welds, and the straightness of the entire FEL, and the only thing that looks wrong is the attachment 'feet' on the FEL. The grapple which I current have on, appears only slightly higher on the left fel arm....more so driving the tractor than on the barn floor. I haven't taken a measure, but on my flat barn floor, bottom grapple down, I'd say about 1/2" or so higher on left than right. The pictures of the 'feet' shows the right foot more towards the tractor on the bottom of it than on the left. BUT which one is right, the left one or the right one.

IF I did anything right now, I'd brace the left side at the top so it can't go up, then put a hydraulic jack on the right side and jack up the right side.....but certainly not sure. Is that type of pressure going to torque the bottom of the right foot out? Anyone?

That might twist the loader arms

This tube is twisted, not the loader arms.

BTW I have read this thread all the way through. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/parts-repairs/186059-anyone-ever-straighten-twisted-fel.html

That is not your problem, you FEL is not twisted, only the tube on the quick attach is twisted. kennyd gave you the correct link.

Here is a recent thread on the same basic problem: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/parts-repairs/314969-kubota-l3800-loader-problems-twisted.html

With my grapple pointed down like he did with his bucket, I see almost NO difference left to right. Although I have not gone through measurements (and I probably should do that), it seems the poisiton of the kurl makes a difference as to how far off left and right are. Here again I mention the really only true place you see that is in the feet on fel when I attempted to put the grapple on.

When curled all the way down, there should not be a gap where the arrows are.


IT should be in contact like the right side is.


I would measure the gap, put the right side against an immovable object and curl down until the left side moves slightly more than the gap. You may need someone there to measure while it moves.

 

[jcummins]

Ahhhh the light went off. Thank Xfaxman. I'm normally not that dense to pick up on things, guess I'm getting old.

How serious of an issue is this? I'm using without issues....but my eye keeps looking at that right side. On some post about this, talk of cutting the tube and reweld. I need to double check more, but I think the bucket could be twisted too, since it fits into the attachment plates fine, whereas the grapple does not.

Perhaps do your technique with bucket installed. I'm wondering if the hydraulics is strong enough to pull it back. Bet this was done with pressure from the tractor itself. Not sure if I did it or the previous owner. The M7040 I had in Texas I did considerably more serious work with it with the same type grapple, probably doing things I should never have done (grubbed a lot of trees) and to my knowledge never bent anything.

Once I get this aligned again, would you strengthen that tube? Thinking this process has to weaken it. Seems a simple way of doing that is the right size piece of angle running the whole length of the tube, welded to the tube and the side plates.

 

[Xfaxman]

Ahhhh the light went off. Thank Xfaxman. I'm normally not that dense to pick up on things, guess I'm getting old.

How serious of an issue is this? I'm using without issues....but my eye keeps looking at that right side. On some post about this, talk of cutting the tube and reweld. I need to double check more, but I think the bucket could be twisted too, since it fits into the attachment plates fine, whereas the grapple does not.

Perhaps do your technique with bucket installed. I'm wondering if the hydraulics is strong enough to pull it back. Bet this was done with pressure from the tractor itself. Not sure if I did it or the previous owner. The M7040 I had in Texas I did considerably more serious work with it with the same type grapple, probably doing things I should never have done (grubbed a lot of trees) and to my knowledge never bent anything.

Once I get this aligned again, would you strengthen that tube? Thinking this process has to weaken it. Seems a simple way of doing that is the right size piece of angle running the whole length of the tube, welded to the tube and the side plates.

Yep, the bucket is probably tweaked also.

Try it with the bucket on, if it doesn't untwist, take the bucket off and see if it will go about half of the gap. then try the bucket and the grapple to see how they latch down. The slots in the bucket may be worn some, making it easier to latch with some misalignment.

If you can see the tip of the latch pin sticking down through the grapple attachment plate, the grapple probably won't come off on the right side.

The arrow points to the tip of the latch pin.


As far as strengthening the tube, it will work without it, so that is up to you, I have no experience with the tractor style attachment plate.

This is what my SSQA plate looks like. It will not twist!

 

[skyhook]

jc, after reading your first post, you said you installed a diverter valve,,
just thinking out loud, could it be possible your cylinders are not in sink,,( if thats at all possible)
does the "tube" look bent to you?

 

[jcummins]

skyhook...I've measured the cylinders, don't think this is an issue. I actually don't see anything bent, just the attachment plates not parallel with each other.

Xfaxman I tried every which way I would, don't think the hydraulics are strong enough to twist it back. I wish I had an extremely large pipe wrench...and I do...but at a friends house in Texas. I think that on the torque tude, in connect with the hydraulics would be worth a try..it would add leverage....but don't have. I also double checked the bucket, and it is not twisted. It fits the same way the grapple does. I called a local dealer and discussed. They said on tractors this size...M7040...they don't see this much. It's usually the bigger tractors with more HP that twist things. He said the normal way they fix is to put the attachment plates against something flat...like a wall...and push with the tractor. SO...finding a wall will be difficult. Since the hydraulic method didn't work, I'll be trying 4wd low, very carefully pushing against....something.