Hill Climbing Primer

[JWR]

Back Flips:

Enough torque, enough traction and the tractor will rotate around the rear axle. Don't mater how low you hitch.:thumbsup:

Oh come on ! It matters WHICH WAY it rotates ! If the pull point is below the axle, that rotates the tractor to put more weight on the front wheels. If the pull point is above the axle it rotates the tractor to put less weight on the front wheels. No way around those facts. Physics and farmers must mix...

 

[square1]

Your 25 horse Ford is not the best tool for that job.

Can you expound, please? I can't afford the "best" tool for this job, but was hoping to have found an adequate one

 

[Egon]

Last comment on this "off topic"

If I wish to calculate the "flipping over" lever arm length on the Fordson, which has large diameter, direction reversing bull gears inside the rear end, do I measure the length of the pinion shaft to the front of crankshaft? Or is there some other measured length that is more direct? The E27n is not very powerful, something less thgan 30HP I'm sure, and it's a Very heavy tractor with cast iron front wheels. Even the radiator top tank is cast iron and having removed it several times in the past 35 years, I know it is VERY heavy. I'm just wondering how to sum up the leverage ratio so I won't exceed the "flipping point". I have had the front end clawing air on a number of occassions. It seemed like it was pretty controllable, but I really should have a better idea of where the leverage is measured.

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/1G5g_HwgD24/hqdefault.jpg

da ja vu
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/215952-preventing-tractor-back-flip.html

Ah, I see you found the tread from some years ago. In that thread there is a post by a very well educated mechanically knowledgeable ( far beyond my abilities ) Maritimer. He will not agree with you.

On your tractor just start with the horsepower delivered to the clutch and then calculate the rotational forces involved at each gear engagement point till you get to the tire. The initial rotation point is fixed to the tractor frame. You should easily be able to do the calculations as the tractor rotates about the rear axle!

 

[Egon]

Oh come on ! It matters WHICH WAY it rotates ! If the pull point is below the axle, that rotates the tractor to put more weight on the front wheels. If the pull point is above the axle it rotates the tractor to put less weight on the front wheels. No way around those facts. Physics and farmers must mix...

Works if you use a toy tractor and real levers. Put an engine and rear wheel drive in that tractor and observe what happens.

Now what was this about farmers and physics???

 

[ovrszd]

Still too muddy to go down there, I've been "practicing" on a less steep hill in a drier area and have found success chaining logs to the bucket, engaging the 4WD, and keeping the bucket close to the ground with a ready hand on the FEL down lever for when the back end gets light. I'm not sure how that's going to equate to the steeper climb out of the area discussed here though. I was hoping to give it a go this weekend but am helping a friend move today and a family member with a roof tomorrow. Darn, I hate it when life gets in the way of tractor time

I'm pretty much set on getting a log arch for the bigger logs the FEL won't lift like that 20+ inch walnut.

Glad to see you are educating yourself on FEL use. Sounds like you are approaching it with the necessary caution. Anytime I'm carrying a load with the FEL I have my hand on the joystick. Anytime!!!! I also manage my speed cautiously.

Additionally when you chain an item to the bucket or when using a Grapple the dynamics change. You can't get loose from the item by simply dumping.

So be alert and very conscious of your surroundings and you'll be fine. I've carried loads hundreds of hours with the FEL but I still get into situations ocassionally where my heart skips a beat. The more you work in these situations the more you'll bond with your tractor to the point you can feel a hazard coming.

 

[ovrszd]

Right back to the point.

IF the tires and wheels are not allowed to turn relative to the tractor chassis, leaving only the reaction at the ring and pinion, that long long lever, does absolutely NOTHING.Yet if a lever is applied at the same locked tires/wheels, Over it goes ;-)

Simple

I suppose we could move up the line and say that is the piston pushing on the connecting rod that causes the turn over, for there are the "head waters" of all subsequent reactions.
But alas, the cranks on "most" tractor engines are arranged 90 degrees to the desired reaction, and this just leads to confusion for the "pinion climbing" to explain.

What is needed is direct coupled steam power. Maximum torque at minimum revs. No confusion regarding the gearbox there ;-)

Might as well describe what is really taking place ....;-)

If the load lever is longer than the pull lever, no amount of pull will tip the tractor over backwards. For it is the pull that produces the load. Despite the futile antics within the differential.

There he went again,,,, welded the rear axle shafts to the housing again..... :confused3:

 

[ovrszd]

I'm wondering if the climbing pinion gear debate will be settled before I get the logs out of the bottom land

I'm guessing not......

 

[ovrszd]

Oh come on ! It matters WHICH WAY it rotates ! If the pull point is below the axle, that rotates the tractor to put more weight on the front wheels. If the pull point is above the axle it rotates the tractor to put less weight on the front wheels. No way around those facts. Physics and farmers must mix...

I suggest you go back and reread Egon's statement that you referred to. Key point is "enough traction".

 

[ovrszd]

Can you expound, please? I can't afford the "best" tool for this job, but was hoping to have found an adequate one

I agree. The challenge is finding a way to do the job with the tool you have, not run out and buy a bigger tool.....

 

[JWR]

Can you expound, please? I can't afford the "best" tool for this job, but was hoping to have found an adequate one

Very understandable -- we cannot all just go out and buy some very large machine. What I meant was it would be fairly easy with a larger machine and grapple hooks on the loader. With a 25 horse-sized machine (weight and everything considered) it is much more difficult. And worse yet a lot more risky. That's what I meant about "size matters." What's best for each one's circumstances of course differs. I just think the whole job can be a lot more dangerous with the 25 horse Ford than it would be with say a 60 horse 4WD of some sort. Many people have spoken and I agree with most of them. Assuming this is not something you do every day, and you just need to get it done, I favor pulling or carrying the logs with the loader to a pile just below the steep part. Then pull them up over the steep with your machine and a cable or chain. Good luck with it all !