First time using PTO. Can I get a quick primer?

Santa Craig Cringle · Mar 28, 2014

I bought a used SpeeCo Fieldmaster PHD and hooked it up to my Ford 881 today. I did get everything including the shaft hooked up this evening (while the tractor was off of course). Fully aware of the danger using the PTO.

Came in to read my owners manual. This is my first tractor and my first time ever using PTO. My tractor has two independent PTO speeds of 540 and 1000 rpm plus a proportional ground speed PTO. I understand that the independent PTO allows me to use the PTO whether or not the tractor is moving.

However, I have a PTO control knob, a ground speed PTO shift lever, an engine speed PTO shift lever, and the inching pedal. The manual tells me way more than I think I need to know. And way more than I'll be able to remember when using the PTO for the first time.

Can some of you more experienced folks give me the ABC's of using my PHD so I can be productive tomorrow?

First, how do I make it so the shaft isn't turning when I start the engine, or disengage the PTO when the engine is running?
Second, is 540 RPM the correct PTO speed for using a PHD?
Third, should I use the PHD using implement position control or constant draft control?
Fourth, would this use be considered a light or heavy draft load? I have a two hole hyd. lift rocker and need to make sure I have the boom connected to the proper hole.

Anything else I need to know?

Cbrown9064 · Mar 29, 2014

OK, will help where I can, as I am not familiar with the Select-o-Speed setup (have 861).

Run the hydros in Implement Position control (lever horizontal). Draft control is for pulling a plow where the touch control (up/down lever) determines how much "pull" is exterted on the implement as opposed to how low or high it is. Position control is just that, how high or low. So, run everything but you want to control how high low something is in position control.

The two hole rocker is again related to the draft mode. The upper hole gives more leverage or "sensitivity" to the draft mode in how it pushes in on the yoke. In position control it does nothing, run it in the lower hole if possible with you top link.

I don't know about your PHD, but I looked at a couple on Speecos website and they say 540 rpm max. Check yours and do not run over that speed. You should have a line on you proof meter that indicates what engine rpm equals 540 rpm. If I recall correctly on my 861 gas (don't know if yours is gas or diesel) that is about 1800 engine RPMs. But I am going from memory, check your proof meter.

Start the tractor with PTO disengaged and engage PTO when at the digging site with engine rpm low. Increase engine rpm (not to exceed the line on the proof meter for 540 PTO, and lower you digger with the touch control.

You may not need to rev the engine all the way up to the 540 PTO line, depending on your soil. One thing to note is there is no "down" pressure from the 3 point hitch. It goes down by gravity. The digger will pull itself down, only limited by how much you let it down with the touch control.

Finally, you want the PTO control in 540 independent, not ground speed. Again, I don't have a select-o-speed, so not sure how you do that, but it sounds like you do. The inching pedal is just that, for inching the tractor. Could be useful for positioning the tractor exactly where you want to dig.

Good luck and post back how the digging went!
Chris

Gary Fowler · Mar 29, 2014

I think CBrown covered the basics pretty well.

Of most importance, don't let the PHD "auger in" in soft soil. In other words let it dig slowly into the dirt will the flutes extract the loose dirt. There is no need to run it much above 1200-1500 RPM either. As it digs, raise it up(but not completely out of the hole) and drop it back down to clear the dirt and make sure it isn't augering in. The top link hole only has influence on the height the PHD can raise the bit. The lower hole will raise it higher than the upper hole. As long as it clears the ground when raised fully it will work.
You should have a two stage clutch. Depress it fully and it will stop the PTO from turning but depressing it about half way will stop the tractors forward movement but allow the PTO to keep turning. This is good for when using a bushhog as it allows the tractor to stop/reverse without stopping the PTO.

Note: If you do get the auger hung up (and this is very likely for a novice operator) make sure you have in your possession an 18" or larger pipe wrench to turn the PTO shaft in reverse to "unscrew" the auger to the point that the tractor will lift it out. I have found it easier to turn the PTO shaft several rounds than to try to twist the auger itself.

Santa Craig Cringle · Mar 29, 2014

Thanks for the tips. Looks like my little project is on hold for now. We've had steady cold rain for the last 12 hours or so. The ground was already pretty wet and now it's one giant mud puddle. At this rate I'm not sure when I'm going to get this project started.

Soundguy · Mar 29, 2014

live pto and non live pto as well as independent allow you to use the pto when the tractor is not moving! ground speed pto are the ones that have no pto when not moving.

live lets you shift pto in or out or leave it operating even if drivetrain is clutched.

independent pto is just that. you can pull the pto knob ont he dash to power the pto any time engine is on.

use 540 range and idle.

running a phd fast is a good way to plant the tractor.

let it dig slow and clean often. ( lift )

also.. the dubious early sos and pto ( on those models ).. had no pto brake... menai it will fluid couple and freewheel many times. dunno if your auger is enough of a laod to stop it or not.... so be carefull.

Santa Craig Cringle · Mar 30, 2014

How do I get the PTO to shut off? It's running all the time, even on start-up and shut down. The PTO control knob doesn't seem to do anything. It's a concern when you have the auger hooked up and it's resting on the ground. As soon as I start the tractor it's immediately turning and I have to lift it up immediately to keep it from digging.

Cbrown9064 · Mar 30, 2014

sleuth said:
How do I get the PTO to shut off? It's running all the time, even on start-up and shut down. The PTO control knob doesn't seem to do anything. It's a concern when you have the auger hooked up and it's resting on the ground. As soon as I start the tractor it's immediately turning and I have to lift it up immediately to keep it from digging.

Hard to say exactly, but see Soundguy's post about fluid coupling on the Select-O-Speed units. They PTO can spin even with it disengaged and a very light load due to the way the PTO is powered from this transmission. There is no PTO brake on this model.

Test it out with the PTO disengaged. The Post Hole Digger may start to spin, but if you try to "dig" with it should stop. If so, then it is the fluid coupling. If it digs a post hole, then you have a problem with the disengagement and will need to get the Select-O-Speed supplement to the Shop Manual to diagnose further. This supplement will help you diagnose and troubleshoot if you have a cable adjustment problem.

Ford SELECT O SPEED Service Manual

This is a shop manual that covers all 800 and 801 series tractors. Good for hydraulics, engine and chassis. Everything BUT the transmission. You need both manuals.
Ford 881 Service Manual

I have found that the forums are great, great resources, but nothing replaces a good shop manual. Especially these Ford reprints that are more detailed than the I&T manuals. The manuals will answer many of your questions and then when you don't understand something the forums are great to help guide you through what the manual says.

Post back, interested to hear what your problem is.
Chris

Santa Craig Cringle · Mar 30, 2014

Thanks. I will be buying a shop manual and the transmission manual with the new budget period in April. I'm excited to start tinkering with this thing.

I have not tried to dig in with the PHD yet. The ground is too saturated at the moment and I didn't want to try digging in the wet soil.
It seems strange to me that you would have a PTO that spins all the time with no brake. A PTO is dangerous enough as it is but to have one that you can't shut off? As an engineer I have to shake my head a little at that.

Cbrown9064 · Mar 30, 2014

Well...it was designed in the 50's...if it is fluid coupling, it will probably lessen as the weather and oil get warmer. Put some load on it to see what is truly going on.

Any other PTO implements you could test it with?

Santa Craig Cringle · Mar 30, 2014

Cbrown9064 said:
Well...it was designed in the 50's...if it is fluid coupling, it will probably lessen as the weather and oil get warmer. Put some load on it to see what is truly going on.

Any other PTO implements you could test it with?

No, the PHD was my first purchase. Needed it for building a fence and doing some outbuilding construction.

Kirk-NJ · Mar 31, 2014

PTO should be on 540 unless your implement is rated for 1000 in which case the splines are different and you would have to change the pto shaft. That's why the middle of you pto shaft is hollow. There is a bolt inside there. I would assume that the 1000 pto shaft adapter would have came with the unit (and not an option) but I've had a couple and they are never there. Check your tool box, Shaft would be like 24 spline, as well as your implement would have the same.
Pto spins all the time. When the pto is off and not engaged you will be able to stop it (CAREFULLY) with a 2x4 or your foot. 2x4 IMO works better. Please note again (CAREFULLY).
If it does not stop than more than likely your cable is broken. Not uncommon but parts are NLA as far as I know. You may have to get a used one or repair the cable.
When operating the PHD,as soundguy said. take short bits. If you soil is as rocky as mine is you will surely be getting stuck. Since you don't have a reverser trans you can't hit reverse and spin it out. If lock up tight,disengage the pto and take a pipe wrench and back it out at the top of the auger.

Kirk

Before getting a manual for the SOS it's best to run the numbers on you trans to see if you have and ORC or DDC trans. The manuals are different. Parts get switch all the time on these old tractors and if it went through the exchange program in the mid '60's it might be switched out ot the DDC trans.

Soundguy · Apr 1, 2014

sleuth said:
How do I get the PTO to shut off? It's .

Thanks for NOT reading my post.

i told you why it would not turn off.

If you aren't going to read my posts.. I'll stop wasting my time posting in this thread.

have a good one!

Soundguy · Apr 1, 2014

Cbrown9064 said:
Well...it was designed in the 50's...if it is fluid coupling, it will probably lessen as the weather and oil get warmer. Put some load on it to see what is truly going on.

Any other PTO implements you could test it with?

it's a well known common issue to anyone that knows these old fords. the early sos pto units spun all the time.. some for the reason kirk mentioned. still powered and cable control broke or not adjusted. some just because no brake..

Santa Craig Cringle · Apr 1, 2014

Soundguy said:
Thanks for NOT reading my post.

i told you why it would not turn off.

If you aren't going to read my posts.. I'll stop wasting my time posting in this thread.

have a good one!

Sorry, I read your post. I just didn't quite understand it. Being new to tractors, I was envision a PTO brake being something that you apply to stop the shaft from spinning. What I was asking about is whether there was something that actually made the shaft disengage.

I was thinking of it like the PTO on my lawn mower. The mowing deck does not cut by default. You have to engage it to turn it on. You disengage to turn it off.

A brake on the other hand is a little different to me. You're actually applying a load to stop something from moving.

Sorry for the confusion. I read all your posts on my threads carefully, given that you are the recognized Ford expert on this forum, and as I'm finding in my google searches, several others.

Cbrown9064 · Apr 1, 2014

It really all boils down to 2 things;

1. is it fluid coupling?
2. Or is the engagement cable broken/out of adjustment?

One or the other. Once you determine what the problem is you can deal with it....

Soundguy · Apr 1, 2014

I'd call rickb a ford expert.. i'm just a hobbiest hack.

Are you pulling hte pto cable ont he dash to engage it?

have you tried stopping it with a 2x4 pressed against the spinning shaft when it is NOT in the engaged position?

DO NOT EVERY attempt to touch or stop the pto by hand....

sleuth said:
Sorry, I read your post. I just didn't quite understand it. Being new to tractors, I was envision a PTO brake being something that you apply to stop the shaft from spinning. What I was asking about is whether there was something that actually made the shaft disengage.

I was thinking of it like the PTO on my lawn mower. The mowing deck does not cut by default. You have to engage it to turn it on. You disengage to turn it off.

A brake on the other hand is a little different to me. You're actually applying a load to stop something from moving.

Sorry for the confusion. I read all your posts on my threads carefully, given that you are the recognized Ford expert on this forum, and as I'm finding in my google searches, several others.

Santa Craig Cringle · Apr 9, 2014

Well, I can't wait any longer. Tomorrow evening I'm going to have to try digging. The ground is still soppin' wet and we can't seem to string together 3 dry days in a row here.

From what I've read, drilling in dry ground is much more difficult than wet ground. My concern is that the soil is going to be heavy, wet, and create a vacuum on my auger.

Soundguy · Apr 9, 2014

remember.. you should be cleaning the hole OFTEN.. and go SLOW RPMS on the auger..

newbury · Apr 9, 2014

Soundguy said:
remember.. you should be cleaning the hole OFTEN.. and go SLOW RPMS on the auger..

What he said -
I just taught my son to use the PHD.

Common mistakes:
Not enough power, auger stops
Too much power and poor vertical control, auger heads for china
Auger starts angling because it hit a large obstruction (we had some big roots, you may have rocks), remove obstruction or hole.
Keep it turning while it's in the hole
When "cleaning the hole out" be careful of large chunks slinging off
NO LOOSE CLOTHING

Good luck, it sure beats doing it by hand.