Converting this Huskee 22 ton log splitter to electric

[LD1]

I will call you out on the above. You are probably correct, they have fudged the numbers on that motor, but you said you only used a 3hp motor on your conversion, so what is the problem? And service factor should not be a problem if it only has to strain momentarily when going through a tough piece of wood. Most of the time it will be idling or just moving the ram back and forth.

Yes I am using a 3. Not sure what you are calling out though. I disclosed all of the info and why I am using it.the pump at max pressure draws 11amp on three phase. Granted, it don't happen much when splitting, but the unit is still capable of of burning up my 8amp rated motor. But given that I have a ton of them, big deal.

But if I was doing it from scratch, and buying a motor, AND wanted it to last, I would get an actual 5hp motor.

But hey, it ain't my money. But you get what you pay for.

 

[LD1]

I will also point out that when I say this pump draws 11ish amps on my setup, don't confuse that with a single phase setup. You will be drawing more like 17 amps when dead-heading the pump. Which will burn up a 15amp motor if the sf is only 1.0

 

[ajmaxham]

If I understand this -- a 5 hp electric motor with 20.8 fla draw, a sf of 1.0 and manual overload protection (like the Leeson catalog # 120554) will have enough power for a 11 gpm woodsplitter pump and not draw too many amps to burn up the motor.

The Lesson catalog # 120554 is listed for compressor or other industrial application

not all 5 hp motors that are compressor duty are 15 fla

 

[LD1]

If I understand this -- a 5 hp electric motor with 20.8 fla draw, a sf of 1.0 and manual overload protection (like the Leeson catalog # 120554) will have enough power for a 11 gpm woodsplitter pump and not draw too many amps to burn up the motor.

The Lesson catalog # 120554 is listed for compressor or other industrial application

not all 5 hp motors that are compressor duty are 15 fla

You understand correct. Watch out for the HP rating saying something like 5 spl. Special purpose. Means they can get away with making you think it is 5 HP when it really isnt.

But either way, HP ratings of the motors are irrelevant. Then AMP rating is what you need to look at. And anything 20+ should be good on 240v to run that pump. 15 amp rating...not so much. The SF ratings are how much you can over current the motor and not hurt it. 1.0 gives no room for error. So 15 amp motor, anytime it draws more than that, like an occasion spike to 16, will really shorten the life. Now if you had a 15A motor with a SF 1.15, you wouldnt hurt anything till you drew more than 17.25A.

Here is a leeson 3 HP motor. Look at how the amp rating compairs closely with that "5 hp spl" compressor motor listed earlier http://www.leeson.com/leeson/searchproduct.do;jsessionid=F436B701097576E3C9002A9F23E90231

15 Amps clearly isnt anywhere near 5 HP on single phase 230v

Also, that leeson you listed with 20.8 FLA, it is an open drip-proof motor. Personally I would prefer a TEFC motor on a splitter being in a dirty environment. But they are also more money.

And not sure what you can actually buy or find these motors for $$$, but at least looking at leesons site, a similar 3 phase versions are several hundred cheaper on list. If that turns out to be the case, you may want to consider a VFD like I mentioned.

Unless you can find a used good motor, or are willing to spend $$$, there is no easy way to convert to electric.

 

[ajmaxham]

"Also, that leeson you listed with 20.8 FLA, it is an open drip-proof motor. Personally I would prefer a TEFC motor on a splitter being in a dirty environment. But they are also more money."

I agree 100% on the TEFC motor.

The Leeson # 120554 I got on ebay for $245.00 free shipping. I mounted the motor and pump away from wood splitting area and installed a protective cover. The wood splitter also stays in the shop when not in use.

 

[Texasmark]

Here's a motor that should do it for $199.95. 5 HP 230 VAC 3450 RPM LEESON AIR COMPRESSOR MOTOR

Here are the lovejoys. The motor above has a 5/8 shaft. 5/8" L-099 JAW COUPLING HALF

If your pump has a 1/2" shaft, you will need this other half. 1/2" L-099 JAW COUPLING HALF

And this rubber spider. BUNA-N INSERT FOR L-099 JAW COUPLING

You will have to make a "L" bracket to support that motor vertically, since it mounts on the bottom.

Don't forget you will need a pretty big switch to turn this thing on and off. Surplus didn't have anything that would work besides a relay.

I just took an old gas lawn mower and made a splitter drive. Learned a couple of things:

1. My pump looks like yours (16 gpm at 3600 rpm), is 2 stage and cannot tolerate lateral stresses. I like "ajmaxes" installation as it solves that problem of lateral stress. The pump shaft has to turn CW on mine and maybe yours too. I like the motor Franklin 2 picked out as it can be reversible....to drive the pump in the desired direction, is a high torque application.... to hang in there when the splitter loads up and kicks in it's high pressure function. The 3450 rpm matches the rated pump capacity of mine and supports the direct drive like aj has in his installation. Otherwise the drive gets complicated....V belts, different sheave diameters, additional brackets, selection of the correct belt to carry the HP. My pump has no position limits; can be mounted in any position....vert, horiz, 45 degrees.

I encountered other problems that required funding but you aren't facing the same peculiarities in your electrical application.

I bought my supplies at Northern Tool. I did learn that their Lovejoy couplings listed in their catalog for $20 are just one half. So you need to buy two halves and the rubber cushion Franklin mentioned. That makes it easy in selecting one shaft size for the pump and a different one for the drive once you realize you will be spending $40-50 for the hookup. The Couplings use a square key to lock them to the shafts. You can get key stock at an auto parts store and cut to the desired length. I left a little gap between halves to prevent any stress transfer that wasn't part of turning the pump.

Wattage to hp correlation is 741 watts (volts x amps x power factor) per hp. Power factor is around 1 or less depending on motor design and load. Since hp is (torque x rpm)/5250 or thereabouts, with the motor and gas engine running at the same rpm, the only difference is torque. On the difference in electrical hp to gas hp, the difference has to be in the way the motor is wound and started to get high torque. Cap start with a series or series combo gets you the high torque you need to handle the load. Again, Franklin's motor selection looks perfect. Gas engines just don't put out a lot of torque for that size. I guess that's why they started torque rating them rather than hp rating like has been done in the past.

On a switch, I don't see a problem at all. 15 amps is not all that much. A cheap switch is a 15 or 20 amp 240 volt single phase circuit breaker like you would have in your power panel for your house, running a small air conditioner. Get you a little NEMA box to put it in, wire it with suitable cable and go for it. If it wears out, it will take awhile, and replacing is no big deal.

The starting load on the switch is minimal as the pump is not under any stress to speak of so the switching current would be low; basically a little startup spike and the idle current of the motor which is nothing as compared to the full load current. Same when you turn it off, no load means low current, means a small arc upon breaking and little contact wear. The big load comes when the ram drives the log onto the spike, in the first instant, and the switch is closed and could care less.

I had fun building mine, works great and would do it again in a heartbeat.

Good luck,
Mark

 

[bcp]

Sometimes I think the HP label is what the stalled motor was drawing just before it caught fire.

When comparing motor labels, get out your calculator.

volts x amps = watts

watts divided by 746 = horsepower.

Bruce

 

[LD1]

Sometimes I think the HP label is what the stalled motor was drawing just before it caught fire.

When comparing motor labels, get out your calculator.

volts x amps = watts

watts divided by 746 = horsepower.

Bruce

Actually got to figure in the efficiency too. Since electric motors arent 100% eff

 

[bcp]

Actually got to figure in the efficiency too. Since electric motors arent 100% eff

But you never know that number for any particular motor. The simple calculation works for finding dishonest HP labels. The HP label should not be higher than the calculated HP.

I get tired of seeing "5hp" tools with a 120v 15 amp plug.

Bruce

 

[LD1]

But you never know that number for any particular motor. The simple calculation works for finding dishonest HP labels. The HP label should not be higher than the calculated HP.

I get tired of seeing "5hp" tools with a 120v 15 amp plug.

Bruce

Agreed.

80% is a good average though. Which makes that 15a motor listed earlier only be worth ~3.7HP. Heck, even 100% efficient it isnt 5hp.

@ 80% eff, to actually get 5hp with 230v, you need 20.27A minimum motor rating. I guess thats why you see most motors that actually ARE 5hp, listed in the 20-23A range. Cause thats an honest number.

Heck, if you just look at the fact that the "5 hp special" compressor motor is only 38lbs, and the actual 5hp leeson that surplus sells for $430 is 87lbs should tell you something right there.

 

[Texasmark]

Most motors today run around 85% efficiency... at least the ones I read specs on.

The current method of determining hp is what is referred to as "locked rotor" rating. As previously stated. The point where the voltage starts to fall off drastically and the current spikes....bam they get max voltage and max current (for a split second) and multiplying and all get hp. Has nothing to do with real usable hp. Just more marketing hype to charge more and supply less.

On comparing weights, I have a 1/3 hp motor my grand dad gave me when I was young. It is about 12" in diameter and weighs about 50#. Motors have come a long way and not all are made from the same components, especially any magnetic parts.

The fact that I see two humps on top of the motor tells me it is a capacitor start....aka starts under load easily and capacitor run, meaning it balances the inductance for a PF of around 1 while supplying high current. Being compressor rated also tells me that the motor is either series or compound wound which deliver high torque.

Again, the high pressure/high current demand is just a spike for just a second and the normal stress on the motor is otherwise minimal. Idle running current is just a fraction of full load current so cost to run is nothing.

Running a 3 hp motor would be akin to about 2.2 kW if running at full load. Ok so you leave the motor running at full load current for a full hour and at the 11 cents per kWH I pay for electricity, that would have cost me about 2 bits (25c). Man that's going to break the bank! Ha! But it doesn't run at rated current for the full hour, but just a second per log. So it won't cost that much. Gimme a break.

Mark

 

[LD1]

Most motors today run around 85% efficiency... at least the ones I read specs on.

I would agree with you on 3 phase motors. But most smaller single phase motors are lucky to get 80%

The current method of determining hp is what is referred to as "locked rotor" rating.

Any sources or links to back that up??

With the exception of these compressor motors that have "special" or "SPL" next to the HP rating, All of the motors I have ever seen (now and in the past), the HP rating matches almost exactally the calculation of Volts x Amps, Divided by 746. times efficiency.

That Leeson 20.8A at 230v and 80% efficient comes out to 5.13HP. Certainly aint figuring locked rotor current.

On comparing weights, I have a 1/3 hp motor my grand dad gave me when I was young. It is about 12" in diameter and weighs about 50#. Motors have come a long way and not all are made from the same components, especially any magnetic parts.

Comparing old to new has little to do with the comparison I am making. Cause BOTH motors are new, and both "claim" to be 5HP. While one only weighs half as much, and pulls far fewer amps.

Running a 3 hp motor would be akin to about 2.2 kW if running at full load. Ok so you leave the motor running at full load current for a full hour and at the 11 cents per kWH I pay for electricity, that would have cost me about 2 bits (25c). Man that's going to break the bank! Ha! But it doesn't run at rated current for the full hour, but just a second per log. So it won't cost that much. Gimme a break.

Mark

Unless I missed it somewhere, I dont think anyone in this thread saying anything about costing alot to run. It certainly is cheaper, which was one of the reasons I converted.

 

[ajmaxham]

I found a TEFC motor on ebay for $499.00 from PTJ Industrial (enter 131549 Leeson).

It is a 131549.00 5hp Lesson Electric Motor 3450RPM TEFC

F.L. Amps 19.8 - S.F. Amps 23 - S.F. 1.15 - continuous duty - 82.5 efficient - Motor Wt. 96LB - no overload protection.

With this motor I would get the Motor Control for a 5 HP motor (start stop reset) about $114.00.

It would make very good motor for your electric conversion.

 

[Texasmark]

I would agree with you on 3 phase motors. But most smaller single phase motors are lucky to get 80%



Any sources or links to back that up??

With the exception of these compressor motors that have "special" or "SPL" next to the HP rating, All of the motors I have ever seen (now and in the past), the HP rating matches almost exactally the calculation of Volts x Amps, Divided by 746. times efficiency.

That Leeson 20.8A at 230v and 80% efficient comes out to 5.13HP. Certainly aint figuring locked rotor current.



Comparing old to new has little to do with the comparison I am making. Cause BOTH motors are new, and both "claim" to be 5HP. While one only weighs half as much, and pulls far fewer amps.




Unless I missed it somewhere, I dont think anyone in this thread saying anything about costing alot to run. It certainly is cheaper, which was one of the reasons I converted.

WW Grainger (started out as an electric motor supplier) catalog on how motors are rated today and efficiencies. As stated somewhere on this thread, do the math and the 5 hp your vacuum cleaner is supposed to put out on 115v with a 20' 16 gauge wire just doesn't get it.

On cost to run it was in the thread somewhere otherwise I wouldn't have made a comment. I'm not going to do the research!

I didn't do the math on the verbiage about what is claimed to be a 5 is really only a 3. I just went with the 3 and elaborated.

So, what's the point? Where are we headed with this? Is this a "my 4wd monster truck" is bigger than yours?

 

[Steve_Miller]

Don't be fooled by HP ratings, they can be deceiving. Some manufacturers will rate HP as continuous, peak or stall and these are very different. Compare it to generators (in watts) or compressors (in HP) ratings that some companies use, the bigger the number the more impressive it becomes although continuous would be a better number to see. Service factor and duty cycle of a motor can also be things to watch for. Overload protection (not fuses) if matched to the motor can save you your motor but it won't be cheap either. There are several classes of motor protection as well, class 10, 20 & 30 to name a few basic ones. Efficiency ratings of a motor are mostly when the motor is running at or near full load, as the motor loading drops off so does efficiency. Matching your motor HP with the hydraulic pump flow and adjusting your pressure relief settings to allow the motor to max out at relief will go a long way in longevity. Believe it or not there is engineering that goes into designing a system, we may not call ourselves engineers but a lot of things that are discussed on projects like these are just that. My two cents for what it is worth. Just for a tidbit of info, out of an ordinary 15 amp wall outlet, the most you can likely get would be 1 HP and that is pushing it. Another tidbit, when you get down to 2 HP and below it is hard to use the amps X volts / 746watt = HP as they are less efficient than larger motors.

Steve

 

[LD1]

WW Grainger (started out as an electric motor supplier) catalog on how motors are rated today and efficiencies. As stated somewhere on this thread, do the math and the 5 hp your vacuum cleaner is supposed to put out on 115v with a 20' 16 gauge wire just doesn't get it.

I agree with you on items like mentioned that "have" an electric motor. Vacuums, shop vacs, power tools in general, etc. All are fudged. But actually buying an electric motor, of good quality/brand, the HP rating on the nameplate is typically the good honest working HP with the only exception I have found being compressor motors. And those usually have a SP, SPL, or special after the HP rating.

On cost to run it was in the thread somewhere otherwise I wouldn't have made a comment. I'm not going to do the research!

Good chance I missed it then. I know it wasnt me. In about 99.9% of times, if you can replace a gas motor with an electric, it will be cheaper to run.

So, what's the point? Where are we headed with this? Is this a "my 4wd monster truck" is bigger than yours?

Good Question. I dont know where this is headed.

my posting to this thread is just trying to clear up some mis information that has been given so the OP can make an informed decision based on good info instead of bad. Someone earlier listed a motor that "should" work and it was a 15A compressor motor. Sure it is cheap, but wont hold up long term. I posted why, and that it isnt truly a 5hp. If this thread stopped after that thread, the OP would be thinking he could spend $200 and have an adequate motor for the long haul and be none-the-wiser.

My last post quoting you wasnt meant to be confrontational or hostile. I deal with alot of electric motors say to day. Bout the only time I see efficiency ratings over 80% is 3 phase. So I was just clarifying that. And the comment about motors being rated as locked rotor, again, just trying to get clarification. Cause if you are looking at a leeson, baldor, GE, reliance, etc. And buying an actual motor with a nameplate. They certainly arent figuring the HP as locked rotor. But the power tools and vacuums earlier mentioned....I agree with you.

 

[bcp]

In about 99.9% of times, if you can replace a gas motor with an electric, it will be cheaper to run.

Over the years, I've probably spent the cost of a new motor in carb parts and rebuild time. But I've never spent a cent yet to rebuild a carb on an electric motor.

Bruce

 

[LD1]

Over the years, I've probably spent the cost of a new motor in carb parts and rebuild time. But I've never spent a cent yet to rebuild a carb on an electric motor.

Bruce

Yea, but how much is it costing ya annually to change the oil and filter in that electric motor....:laughing:

 

[franklin2]

Yes I am using a 3. Not sure what you are calling out though. I disclosed all of the info and why I am using it.the pump at max pressure draws 11amp on three phase. Granted, it don't happen much when splitting, but the unit is still capable of of burning up my 8amp rated motor. But given that I have a ton of them, big deal.

But if I was doing it from scratch, and buying a motor, AND wanted it to last, I would get an actual 5hp motor.

But hey, it ain't my money. But you get what you pay for.

I appreciate the info that the motor I linked to was not really a genuine 5hp motor. But what I didn't understand is why you never said it would be "good enough" since you said you used a 3 hp motor, and the motor I linked to could reliably only supply around 3 hp. Considering the intermittent loading in this application, and if he puts a micro switch and a contactor on it, it would not even be running 100% of the time, wouldn't this motor serve the desired purpose?

I also am thinking anyone on here who builds their own stuff, is not going to run the ram to the end of it's stroke and hold it till the motor burns up, or actually hold it into a piece of wood very long if it's not making any progress. Just trying to balance theory with real world practice and of course cost plays a big part.

 

[Texasmark]

On cost of the project, I had an old riding lawn mower and a 4 x 24 cylinder driven splitter I designed and built.....wedge/knife took 4 iterations before I got it where it really worked well. I had the engine, the frame, wheels to roll it about, and the splitter. Geez all I had to do was to get a pump and hook it up to the engine. Walk in the park. Yeah right!

Well, about $500 later I got what I wanted. Things just kept coming op that were required. However, I have a slick unit now that does what I want, don't have to get the tractor out to run it, runs unloaded 7 sec. out, 6 back and sits at ground level.

Not that anybody is interested since this is an electrically driven question, but I do have some pics. Just a little effort to get the chip out of the camera and work through the posting process.

Mark