Jelled Fuel

[KsBowhuner]

I just bought a Mahindra 4025 a month ago. The dealer told me the fuel was winterized already when he delivered it.We have had extreme cold temps for the past week and have not seen highs above 15 degrees and had 9" of blowing snow. Fired up the tractor and let it run for about 25 min and started plowing snow. It went 100 yards and died. Everyone one including dealer said fuel has jelled and clogged the filter. I am getting feeback ranging from drain fuel because the dealer did not winterize the fuel to change fuel filter,or even to wait til July...LOL I joined this forum to see if I can get some solid advice. Suggestions???

 

[RalphVa]

Just add some kerosene, about 1/3. May have to siphon some out to get that amount of kero in.

In the meanwhile, warm up your filter and maybe put a blanket around it with the blanket open on the side towards the engine. If you have a small heating pad and have a 120 volt plug (like my new tractor does), plug it in and use it around your filter. The heating pad we have is low enough wattage that it could be used.

Gel is just wax. Melt it, and it's liquid fuel. Just need to get it a little bit warmer than the air around it.

Ralph

 

[diesel lover]

Diesel 911 is an outstanding product!! You can try adding it straight to the fuel tank or add it to the fuel filter. If it's easy to get a new filter you could remove and replace the fuel filter as well.

Sounds like your far away from your shed and all! Let us know if you need further help but I would remove what fuel is in the tank or treat it with strong winter anti gell

 

[KsBowhuner]

I have heard that D911 is very hard on engines and its very critical to mix it at precise ratios ...what is your experience?

 

[diesel lover]

I have heard that D911 is very hard on engines and its very critical to mix it at precise ratios ...what is your experience?

I'm sure it could be if used wrong. If you completely replace the fuel filter and add maybe 1/4 to 1/3 diesel 911 and the rest of the filter filled with fuel you should be okay you definately need to add some anti gel to the fuel tank or remove the fuel that's in there and replace.
Make sure you fill the fuel filter full that way there is not a air gap to push through the fuel system.

The filter is going to be completely waxed due to the paraffin wax of the fuel clogging up the filter. If you are relaying on this tractor to plow snow and don't mind adding a new fuel filter in all my experience it would be the best way to do it to make sure it's going to run 100%

 

[ovrszd]

911 works very well. If the tractor will run at all, you can just pour it in the tank and crank, die, crank, die until it pumps some of the 911 into the filter and it'll clear it up.

If it won't run at all do as diesel lover said and change out the filter, adding 911 and diesel fuel before installing new filter. Make sure you've poured some anti-gel in the tank before trying to recrank or you'll just pump the filter full of fuel that will gel again. Power Service in the white bottle works very well.

You don't need to dump your existing fuel. You just need to treat it. Power Service in the white bottle will treat #2 diesel to flow down to -40F.

Never, never, never trust anyone to tell you if your fuel is winterized. Always take care of that yourself. Think how happy you would be right now if you had treated that tank of fuel the day your tractor arrived. Power Service will cost you somewhere around $16 for a bottle that will treat 250 gallons of fuel.

Edit: Forgot to mention. I'm not a Whiner at all. But the next time I was at that dealership I would have what I call a "Coming to Jesus" meeting with the owner about them sending you out with fuel that gelled......

 

[buickanddeere]

You can't winterize #2 diesel into #1 winter diesel. The paraffin wax is still in there. One can add a brew of elixirs and potions to try and keep the wax dissolved but good luck.
Time to drain and re-fill with real #1 diesel or kerosene.
Winter #1 diesel is not #2 diesel mixed with kerosene either.

 

[jaotguy]

pour the additives to the fuel tank ...


your wife may hate you but .....

break out an OLD hair dryer ( second hand store, etc) ... long extension cord .... an old tarp/blanket/towel .... make a tent if you can ... if not aim the dryer directly at the filter ....then heat the filter up ( you can't get it too hot with a hair dryer ) as well as the fuel tank a bit if you can ... get it running and keep the heat to the filter to warm up any incoming fuel and the fuel returning to the tank.... after you feel comfortable, tractor back to the shed and unplug. ...

then drain some fuel out of the tank ( save it for warmer weather ) and refill with winter blend AND additives.

 

[diesel lover]

I have heard that D911 is very hard on engines and its very critical to mix it at precise ratios ...what is your experience?

Hello ksbowhuner I have went the extra mile and while I was getting fuel I checked out the precautions and directions of power service diesel 911. The picture above is the back of the bottle. I myself am a heavy truck technician but I also work on other equipment and am very interested in learning the correct procedure to completing task the right way.

Note it says on the bottle the safe mixture is 50% d911 to diesel fuel inside the fuel filter. If it were me, I would remove the fuel filter, replace with new fuel filter and add between 1/3 to 1/2 D911 to the filter. Add the rest to the fuel tank if any is left.

I purchased a tool box and tools from a tool man in my area and make regular payments. I saw an opened bottle of diesel 911 on his truck. He made the comment that he uses it as a regular winter anti gel and conditioner. NOTE as it says on the bottle this is not the correct use for the product. Although it de-ices and liquifies fuel instantly it DOES not work as an anti-gel to keep fuel unthawed permently. It will unthaw the wax that has formed but it will not keep the wax unthawed, it will let it freeze/wax over again.

It's best to apply this product in the fuel tank and or the fuel filter and also apply an anti-gel formulated chemical. As said Howes and the power service white bottles are just great products!

I am familiar with someone who had a dodge one ton pickup truck, and a 5.9 common rail cummins engine. The injectors were going out on his truck and it was a rather costly fix. In order to get him through the next few months of winter he would add a bottle of Diesel 911 every single fuel tank. His injectors would not atomize the fuel properly for a complete burn in cold temperatures. It was a hard starting truck. What did the diesel 911 do in this case? It lowered the combustion temperatures required for the fuel to ignite. For instance adding gasoline to diesel lowers the ignition point. It's something I do not practice doing. I do not add gasoline to diesel fuel. It's an unsafe practice. The vapor of diesel fuel no 2 is ignitable between 140 and 200F roughly depending on blend etc. Gasoline's vapor is ignitable -45F.
If injectors cannot properly atomize the fuel in cold weather to start, you may need to lower the ignition point. This is normally correctly done with a blend of number one and number 2 diesel fuel mixed. My friend was using diesel 911 to lower his ignition point of the fuel. Did he cause any fuel system damage? I'm not sure. Once he had the money was he able to install fuel injectors and the engine ran like new again? Yes.

Didn't know if you wanted a long explanation but there it is!

If you ever have to use diesel 911 use it correctly and add fuel anti-gel shortly after. Enjoy

 

[diesel lover]

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=359593"/> Hello ksbowhuner I have went the extra mile and while I was getting fuel I checked out the precautions and directions of power service diesel 911. The picture above is the back of the bottle. I myself am a heavy truck technician but I also work on other equipment and am very interested in learning the correct procedure to completing task the right way. Note it says on the bottle the safe mixture is 50% d911 to diesel fuel inside the fuel filter. If it were me, I would remove the fuel filter, replace with new fuel filter and add between 1/3 to 1/2 D911 to the filter. Add the rest to the fuel tank if any is left. I purchased a tool box and tools from a tool man in my area and make regular payments. I saw an opened bottle of diesel 911 on his truck. He made the comment that he uses it as a regular winter anti gel and conditioner. NOTE as it says on the bottle this is not the correct use for the product. Although it de-ices and liquifies fuel instantly it DOES not work as an anti-gel to keep fuel unthawed permently. It will unthaw the wax that has formed but it will not keep the wax unthawed, it will let it freeze/wax over again. It's best to apply this product in the fuel tank and or the fuel filter and also apply an anti-gel formulated chemical. As said Howes and the power service white bottles are just great products! I am familiar with someone who had a dodge one ton pickup truck, and a 5.9 common rail cummins engine. The injectors were going out on his truck and it was a rather costly fix. In order to get him through the next few months of winter he would add a bottle of Diesel 911 every single fuel tank. His injectors would not atomize the fuel properly for a complete burn in cold temperatures. It was a hard starting truck. What did the diesel 911 do in this case? It lowered the combustion temperatures required for the fuel to ignite. For instance adding gasoline to diesel lowers the ignition point. It's something I do not practice doing. I do not add gasoline to diesel fuel. It's an unsafe practice. The vapor of diesel fuel no 2 is ignitable between 140 and 200F roughly depending on blend etc. Gasoline's vapor is ignitable -45F. If injectors cannot properly atomize the fuel in cold weather to start, you may need to lower the ignition point. This is normally correctly done with a blend of number one and number 2 diesel fuel mixed. My friend was using diesel 911 to lower his ignition point of the fuel. Did he cause any fuel system damage? I'm not sure. Once he had the money was he able to install fuel injectors and the engine ran like new again? Yes. Didn't know if you wanted a long explanation but there it is! If you ever have to use diesel 911 use it correctly and add fuel anti-gel shortly after. Enjoy

Edit: The lower the ignition point of the fuel, the colder temperatures it can safely be used in as when the ignition point lowers so does the cloud point and gel point. As you lower the ignition point you raise the cetane number.

 

[ovrszd]

You can't winterize #2 diesel into #1 winter diesel. The paraffin wax is still in there. One can add a brew of elixirs and potions to try and keep the wax dissolved but good luck.
Time to drain and re-fill with real #1 diesel or kerosene.
Winter #1 diesel is not #2 diesel mixed with kerosene either.

You are absolutely right. An additive will not magically turn #2 diesel into #1 diesel. #1 diesel has a lot lower cetane rating than #2, so you certainly don't want to make that transformation because you'll suffer a loss of power.

I know nothing about elixirs and potions. But I know what Power Service and Howes additive will do to #2 diesel. It lowers the gel point significantly. And as for Power Service White Bottle, one ounce will treat 3 gallons of #2 diesel and lower the gel point to -40F.

Straight #1 diesel has a lot less lubricant in it. I would read the owners manual or inquire directly to the manufacturer about the safety of using it without a lubricant additive.

I run straight #2 diesel in my Super Duty with the appropriate doseage of Power Service with no problems. I also run a John Deere road grader using the same "elixir and potion" mixture in sub zero temps with no problems.

 

[ovrszd]

Forgot to mention, I have also ran a 50/50% blend of #1 diesel and #2 diesel in the road grader. There is a noticeable drop in useable HP running that blend. That's why I prefer the Power Service White Bottle additive in straight #2.

 

[buickanddeere]

Cetane no more affects the btu's and mileage of diesel fuel. Than octane affects btu's and mileage of gasoline.
Somebody is also mixing up ignition temperature and flash point.

Gasoline has a higher ignition temperature than diesel but a lower flash point.

Mileage and power drops with #1 winter diesel because it contains less btu's per gallon. Those long chain paraffin wax chains that were removed had a lot more carbon atoms per chain than the shorter/lighter molecular chains left with more hydrogen.

 

[diesel lover]

Cetane no more affects the btu's and mileage of diesel fuel. Than octane affects btu's and mileage of gasoline. Somebody is also mixing up ignition temperature and flash point. Gasoline has a higher ignition temperature than gasoline but a lower flash point. Mileage and power drops with #1 winter diesel because it contains less btu's per gallon. Those long chain paraffin wax chains that were removed had a lot more carbon atoms per chain than the shorter/lighter molecular chains left with more hydrogen.

Thank you for pointing that out. I do believe I mixed up the terms ignition point and flash point.

To correct this I will say while the vapor of diesel fuel is ignited at between 140 and 190F depending on fuel grades and other differences in diesel fuel.

The vapor gasoline produces can be ignited at near -45 degs F.

This easily explains the large differences between the two fuels. Diesel fuel needs to be preheated before it is ignitable

 

[ovrszd]

Gasoline has a higher ignition temperature than gasoline but a lower flash point.

What???

 

[buickanddeere]

Gasoline has a higher ignition temperature than diesel but a lower flash point.

What???

Yup

 

[buickanddeere]

I bought a fuel filter heater and fuel filter thermostat for my JD but have yet to get around to installing it. The heater should allow just about any gummy old #2 diesel to flow through the filter in the coldest of weather.

 

[MarkF48]

Just posting a picture of my own bowl of jello :licking:

My tractor doesn't get frequent use and much of the fuel left in the tank was likely from late fall and may have been more of a "summer" grade diesel. A proper dose of 911 seems to have kept me going since I had the problem.

 

[ovrszd]

I bought a fuel filter heater and fuel filter thermostat for my JD but have yet to get around to installing it. The heater should allow just about any gummy old #2 diesel to flow through the filter in the coldest of weather.

If you expect to be able to run straight #2 with no additive in the coldest of weather with just the addition of a fuel filter heater you are going to be greatly disappointed. Your fuel will get in the tank and look similar to MarkF48's picture and will never flow to the filter heater.

My neighbor filled his 500 gallon storage tank with straight #2 fuel a few years ago. Couldn't pump it out of the tank until the temps rose back up into the high teens. Then he added Power Service White Bottle to the tank and used the pump to circulate it. Then was able to use the tank the rest of the Winter.

 

[wbb]

View attachment 359593

Hello ksbowhuner I have went the extra mile and while I was getting fuel I checked out the precautions and directions of power service diesel 911. The picture above is the back of the bottle. I myself am a heavy truck technician but I also work on other equipment and am very interested in learning the correct procedure to completing task the right way.

Note it says on the bottle the safe mixture is 50% d911 to diesel fuel inside the fuel filter. If it were me, I would remove the fuel filter, replace with new fuel filter and add between 1/3 to 1/2 D911 to the filter. Add the rest to the fuel tank if any is left.

I purchased a tool box and tools from a tool man in my area and make regular payments. I saw an opened bottle of diesel 911 on his truck. He made the comment that he uses it as a regular winter anti gel and conditioner. NOTE as it says on the bottle this is not the correct use for the product. Although it de-ices and liquifies fuel instantly it DOES not work as an anti-gel to keep fuel unthawed permently. It will unthaw the wax that has formed but it will not keep the wax unthawed, it will let it freeze/wax over again.

It's best to apply this product in the fuel tank and or the fuel filter and also apply an anti-gel formulated chemical. As said Howes and the power service white bottles are just great products!

I am familiar with someone who had a dodge one ton pickup truck, and a 5.9 common rail cummins engine. The injectors were going out on his truck and it was a rather costly fix. In order to get him through the next few months of winter he would add a bottle of Diesel 911 every single fuel tank. His injectors would not atomize the fuel properly for a complete burn in cold temperatures. It was a hard starting truck. What did the diesel 911 do in this case? It lowered the combustion temperatures required for the fuel to ignite. For instance adding gasoline to diesel lowers the ignition point. It's something I do not practice doing. I do not add gasoline to diesel fuel. It's an unsafe practice. The vapor of diesel fuel no 2 is ignitable between 140 and 200F roughly depending on blend etc. Gasoline's vapor is ignitable -45F.
If injectors cannot properly atomize the fuel in cold weather to start, you may need to lower the ignition point. This is normally correctly done with a blend of number one and number 2 diesel fuel mixed. My friend was using diesel 911 to lower his ignition point of the fuel. Did he cause any fuel system damage? I'm not sure. Once he had the money was he able to install fuel injectors and the engine ran like new again? Yes.

Didn't know if you wanted a long explanation but there it is!

If you ever have to use diesel 911 use it correctly and add fuel anti-gel shortly after. Enjoy

Wow, i did not know that. I 'assumed' that 911 was 'extra strength' Power Service (white bottle)
That explains why we can use 911 to get the CTL going when it gels up, but after a while it will bog down again and lose power.
We even dosed a 100 gallon transfer tank with 911 thinking that would be good for winter use.
From now on it will be...
911 for emergencies only and also always add Power Service to the fuel when below 20 - 25 degrees.

Learn something new every day
especially in these forums.