Pallets in fields

[smstonypoint]

Gentlemen (and any Ladies in this astute discussion), I've had somewhat of an epiphany!



I humbly submit this for Peer Review.

Wagtail, yes back in post #229 I suggested that we look at the materials, construction, and geometry of said pallets. To date, I don't believe we have even established the pallets are constructed of wood. Likely they are... but we all know what can happen when we assume things as a given.

Gentlemen,

I hesitate to prepare a formal comment on the "composition conjecture" as this time.

We have not heard from either blueriver or txdon today. As you know, they were performing pallet experiments overnight.

They may have had a fundamental misunderstanding of the "blind test" in experimental design. While the principal investigator should have a bag over his head during the experiment, he does not have to don the bag until he reaches the site of the experiment. Likewise, he can remove the bag at the end of the experiment. I fear that blueriver and txdon are stumbling around their respective landscapes with bags over their heads.

On the bright side, their misfortune does serve as a useful lesson for junior scientists.

Steve

 

[txdon]

Oh, I did not make a observation on how they fell. I would look now but it is dark in that field and we all know nothing good comes out in the dark.

 

[smstonypoint]

The Texas pallets have fallen - like the Alamo. Is this a normal progression or a failed experiment? We did have 40mph winds but I can't assume anything.

What a relief. I did not see your post before I expressed my concern about your well being.

Steve

 

[blueriver]

I don't know .. The thought of a bag overt head does nothing for me

 

[Wagtail]

Wagtail, yes back in post #229 I suggested that we look at the materials, construction, and geometry of said pallets. To date, I don't believe we have even established the pallets are constructed of wood. Likely they are... but we all know what can happen when we assume things as a given.

Odd Couple - "My Strife in Court" (Assume Scene) - YouTube

Acknowledged, dragoneggs. You did indeed, put forth this avenue of inquiry and I thank you for reminding me and our colleagues.

The reason that I'm drawn specifically to the nails (and ancillary fastening devices) is the "patterns" produced by the placement of these fasteners; to wit... does the wood support the placement of the nails!

If it were a simple '3 nails at each junction betwixt slat & crosspiece- top & bottom' then I'd be inclined to dismiss them as simple pallet assembly conventions. However, I have observed substantively more nails have been deployed (on average) on every pallet in my possession. Why? Economics alone would say that a minimum number of nails be utilised in order to conservatively produce a pallet.

And what's up with the 'L' Shape. These are placed, seemingly, randomly throughout the structure... but are they?

 

[blueriver]

The Texas pallets have fallen - like the Alamo. Is this a normal progression or a failed experiment? We did have 40mph winds but I can't assume anything.

Gotta be the wind .. Mine have fallen as well .. If I only had a "Pallet Grapple"

 

[stuckmotor]

The Texas pallets have fallen - like the Alamo. Is this a normal progression or a failed experiment? We did have 40mph winds but I can't assume anything.

Don,
Since you brought up a parallel to the Alamo, it occurs to me to ask, was Ozzy Osbourne anywhere in the vacinity?

 

[Marveltone]

Oh, I did not make a observation on how they fell. I would look now but it is dark in that field and we all know nothing good comes out in the dark.

Does the group have funding for night vision goggles? We're missing out on valuable data! :worried:

Joe

 

[lilranch2001]

Maybe Google will fund the goggles

 

[Wagtail]

Does the group have funding for night vision goggles? We're missing out on valuable data! :worried:

Joe

Sorry Joe but the expenditure on night vision goggles would not be required as a typical "Game Cam" would suffice. There are several TBN threads dedicated to this device and the pros/cons of the various manufacturers.

Plus you can record the experiment for austerity and review.

You may be able to requisition a scientific instrument from Pipette with the proper credentials.

 

[txdon]

Don,
Since you brought up a parallel to the Alamo, it occurs to me to ask, was Ozzy Osbourne anywhere in the vacinity?

I'll check that out and get back to you.

 

[lilranch2001]

austerity or posterity?

 

[txdon]

Gotta be the wind .. Mine have fallen as well .. If I only had a "Pallet Grapple"

One of my pallets did contain a grapple only moments before the pallet field assembly test. The pallet was from Florida. When the pallet fell the temperature went from the 40s to the 70s. Coincidence?

 

[dave1949]

One of my pallets did contain a grapple only moments before the pallet field assembly test. The pallet was from Florida. When the pallet fell the temperature went from the 40s to the 70s. Coincidence?

Did the Florida pallet fall to the north?

 

[smstonypoint]

Acknowledged, dragoneggs. You did indeed, put forth this avenue of inquiry and I thank you for reminding me and our colleagues.

The reason that I'm drawn specifically to the nails (and ancillary fastening devices) is the "patterns" produced by the placement of these fasteners; to wit... does the wood support the placement of the nails!

If it were a simple '3 nails at each junction betwixt slat & crosspiece- top & bottom' then I'd be inclined to dismiss them as simple pallet assembly conventions. However, I have observed substantively more nails have been deployed (on average) on every pallet in my possession. Why? Economics alone would say that a minimum number of nails be utilised in order to conservatively produce a pallet.

And what's up with the 'L' Shape. These are placed, seemingly, randomly throughout the structure... but are they?

First, I commend you on your review of the scientific literature. You have obviously read my article, "Nails and Wood: Perfect Complements in Pallet Construction," that appeared in the Journal of Pallet Economics in 1981. Well done, sir.

Second, you described the fasteners as being "L" shaped. Have you used a calibrated protractor to verify that the "bend" is indeed a right angle?

Third, absent any further information from sparc, you must rely on experimentation to "flesh out" your conjecture. You should determine the circumstances that result in replication of the "L"-shaped nails. Per the basics of experimental design, this should be a "blind test" -- you must use one of the aforementioned scientific devices to obscure your vision as you strike nails with a hammer. Your lab technician should record the temperature, wind speed, relative humidity, barometric pressure, etc. during the course of the experiment. For peer review purposes, you should post a video of the experiment to this thread.

Keep up the good work!!

Steve

Addendum

Unless you are ambidextrous, you should alternate the use of your right and left hands as you wield the hammer.

 

[Marveltone]

Sorry Joe but the expenditure on night vision goggles would not be required as a typical "Game Cam" would suffice. There are several TBN threads dedicated to this device and the pros/cons of the various manufacturers.

Plus you can record the experiment for austerity and review.

You may be able to requisition a scientific instrument from Pipette with the proper credentials.

Credentials? My FCC licence says I'm a technician; that should be worth something. Even so, it has been a hard winter for most North Americans, making the excess expenditure needed for scientific research devices nearly depleted, due to high heating bills. How about grants? If there are any grant writers in the group, we can get things rolling.

Joe

 

[dragoneggs]

Acknowledged, dragoneggs. You did indeed, put forth this avenue of inquiry and I thank you for reminding me and our colleagues.

The reason that I'm drawn specifically to the nails (and ancillary fastening devices) is the "patterns" produced by the placement of these fasteners; to wit... does the wood support the placement of the nails!

If it were a simple '3 nails at each junction betwixt slat & crosspiece- top & bottom' then I'd be inclined to dismiss them as simple pallet assembly conventions. However, I have observed substantively more nails have been deployed (on average) on every pallet in my possession. Why? Economics alone would say that a minimum number of nails be utilised in order to conservatively produce a pallet.

And what's up with the 'L' Shape. These are placed, seemingly, randomly throughout the structure... but are they?

An image of the L shaped nail would be helpful.

 

[RobertBrown]

Gotta be the wind .. Mine have fallen as well .. If I only had a "Pallet Grapple"

Gotta be the wind?
That's it? No data collected? No soil samples? No photographs? No DNA testing? Is that your professional opinion? How did you arrive at that? You have absolutely no evidence indicating why the pallet was on on the ground and you jump to this conclusion.....gotta be the wind.....:banghead:
Did you do any testing at all for Snake flatulence?

 

[dave1949]

First, I commend you on your review of the scientific literature. You have obviously read my article, "Nails and Wood: Perfect Complements in Pallet Construction," that appeared in the Journal of Pallet Economics in 1981. Well done, sir.

Second, you described the fasteners as being "L" shaped. Have you used a calibrated protractor to verify that the "bend" is indeed a right angle?

Third, absent any further information from sparc, you must rely on experimentation to "flesh out" your conjecture. You should determine the circumstances that result in replication of the "L"-shaped nails. Per the basics of experimental design, this should be a "blind test" -- you must use one of the aforementioned scientific devices to obscure your vision as you strike nails with a hammer. Your lab technician should record the temperature, wind speed, relative humidity, barometric pressure, etc. during the course of the experiment. For peer review purposes, you should post a video of the experiment to this thread.

Keep up the good work!!

Steve

I believe you overlooked the necessity of measuring the hammer head speed and angle incidence at the time of impact. This is crucial information.

 

[smstonypoint]

Gotta be the wind?
That's it? No data collected? No soil samples? No photographs? No DNA testing? Is that your professional opinion? How did you arrive at that? You have absolutely no evidence indicating why the pallet was on on the ground and you jump to this conclusion.....gotta be the wind.....:banghead:
Did you do any testing at all for Snake flatulence?

And Dave claimed that you didn't have the intellectual capacity to be self-employed.

Steve