dead lincoln tombstone

[r porter]

so ---- my old lincoln tombstone's leads are shot. it was an old machine when i bought it back in----- well long time before 1980. the search engine turned up a thread on cleaning up the old gal. but no reference to the leads. they look like no. 4.

did anyone do the clean up of the insides? any tips? i just hate to start this project, but she is down until i fix her

should the lugs be crimped or can they be soldered to the leads?

 

[Arc weld]

Soldered or crimped will work but I'd use a #2 cable not #4. If you make the leads longer, I'd use #1 cable. There are lots of charts on line for determining what size welding cable to use.

 

[muddstopper]

My biggest regret with my old tombstone was the length of the leads. Ground lead was only about 10ft long. I added enough lead to the rod end to reach about 50ft, but I would still endup having to drag the welder to the work just so the ground would reach. I just traded my old tombstone off or I would check the wire size. I think If I was going to replace the leads, I would make them long enough to reach the fartherest point in my shop away from where the welder is plugged in. Go with bigger leads to take care of the current drop and maybe plug in a smaller gauge for the last few feet of the stinger end. I like a light lead at the stinger so I dont have to support the weight of the leads while welding.

 

[cqaigy2]

Im partial to soldering, but you'll need some good heat source to supply enough for a good solder joint. Also, in reference to the thread hi-hacker,
a longer "extension cord" for the tombstone would be lighter, cheaper then extending the welding leads. Strap the welder to hand truck and wheel it over to the work.

 

[muddstopper]

Im partial to soldering, but you'll need some good heat source to supply enough for a good solder joint. Also, in reference to the thread hi-hacker,
a longer "extension cord" for the tombstone would be lighter, cheaper then extending the welding leads. Strap the welder to hand truck and wheel it over to the work.

You really dont need more heat than a small propane torch. They make Solder pellets that you just drop down into the large copper lugs. Just heat the lug until the solder melts and than stick the cable down into it and hold in place until it hardens. I have used wire solder and just melted it until it fills the lug full and then insert the cable.

On the longer extention cord, I did make one up for my tombstone. What you says does work, and is necessary if you need to weld out of reach of your leads, but then the welder seems to always be sitting in the middle of the floor and is something else to walk around. I found that with longer leads I just step over them, and they are as easy to roll up as an extension cord when the work is done. I really feel that if you have to replace the leads anyways, just go with a heavier gauge and longer lengths. If the leads are good and dont need replacing, then the extension cord is certainly a cheaper option.

 

[eastexan]

You really dont need more heat than a small propane torch. They make Solder pellets that you just drop down into the large copper lugs. Just heat the lug until the solder melts and than stick the cable down into it and hold in place until it hardens. I have used wire solder and just melted it until it fills the lug full and then insert the cable.

I've always just crimped fittings, although I know soldering is better. When you solder it, do you also crimp the fitting/lug, or is just the solder bond strong enough to hold the cable in place?

 

[Arc weld]

Just the solder should hold if done right but I like the hammer lugs. Simple to install, just hit the raised tab with a hammer, and they work as good as anything else.

 

[r porter]

it was easy to solder the lugs on. i made sure the wire was taking solder before i stuck it in the lug. once you have filled the lug with solder i dont think you can crimp the lug.

 

[muddstopper]

What size and how long of cable did you decide to go with?

 

[r porter]

no 2 cables 25 ft long

it was a treat to get them hooked up inside. the stinger was saved but i got to get a new ground and i should be up and sparking.

a welder would not be impressed with my work but it usually holds.

 

[rankrank1]

Great to hear you got it working. Typically if a Lincoln buzzbox has issues it is in that selector switch. There are several "how to's" post on the web on cleaning that switch to make it perform like new (usually zero cost, but parts are available if needed).

Regarding placing the leads: Every manufacturer almost universally recommends extending the input power to the machine with a suitable extension cord on the buzzbox class of machines instead of extending the welding leads. I personally would not be afraid to go a little longer than stock on the welding leads but I would not go hog wild on the welding lead lengths either.

 

[Shield Arc]

Regarding placing the leads: Every manufacturer almost universally recommends extending the input power to the machine with a suitable extension cord on the buzzbox class of machines instead of extending the welding leads.

Really? That strange, wonder why they say that?:confused3: Maybe I'm to use to having a couple hundred feet of welding lead stretched out.

 

[muddstopper]

It may be because its cheaper to make up and extention cord than it is to add a bunch of new lead to the welder. Could be the cables size on the welder is already sized for their length and they are afraid that anyone adding more cable might not size it appropriately for the length they are wishing to add. You wouldnt want to add 200ft of #2 cable to a buzzbox, but someone could if they thought it would let them weld something down by the fence instead of inside the shop.

 

[rankrank1]

Really? That strange, wonder why they say that?:confused3: Maybe I'm to use to having a couple hundred feet of welding lead stretched out.

The key words in my previous statement are for "the buzzbox class of machines" which I should have elaborated further on. I have yet to read a Lincoln tombstone AC225, Lincoln AC225/DC125, Miller Thunderbolt Top crank AC225/DC150, Modern Miller Thunderbolt front crank AC225/DC160, or Hobart AC225/DC160 manual that did not universally recommend extending the input power leads over extending the length on the welding leads. Lengths and wire size recommendations are even provided in some but not all manuals for these cords.

My best guess is the manufacturers make this recommendation to help combat voltage drop. Extending length on the input driven at 230 volts will be hardly noticeable compared to voltage drop on the output leads. (typical output of a buzzer only at 80 OCV and dropping to less than 30 or so volts on welding).

The fire breathing dragon class of welding machines that you are used to operating are perfectly fine with several hundred feet of welding leads attached as they are a totally different class of welding machine.

 

[Shield Arc]

The key words in my previous statement are for "the buzzbox class of machines" which I should have elaborated further on. I have yet to read a Lincoln tombstone AC225, Lincoln AC225/DC125, Miller Thunderbolt Top crank AC225/DC150, Modern Miller Thunderbolt front crank AC225/DC160, or Hobart AC225/DC160 manual that did not universally recommend extending the input power leads over extending the length on the welding leads. Lengths and wire size recommendations are even provided in some but not all manuals for these cords.

My best guess is the manufacturers make this recommendation to help combat voltage drop. Extending length on the input driven at 230 volts will be hardly noticeable compared to voltage drop on the output leads. (typical output of a buzzer only at 80 OCV and dropping to less than 30 or so volts on welding).

The fire breathing dragon class of welding machines that you are used to operating are perfectly fine with several hundred feet of welding leads attached as they are a totally different class of welding machine.

Another member here PM'd me to say it was a voltage drop issue, and maybe to hold the cost down from buying welding leads. Funny I always have a tendency to think of what I've seen and done. I don't have a lot of experience with buzz box machines.

"Fire breathing", I like that! :thumbsup:

 

[Arc weld]

Lincoln buzz boxes in particular come with pretty short cables. I don't know why voltage drop would be any different on a buzz box but I thought that's why they make different size welding cable? Bigger cable not only carries more amps but also lowers voltage drop. I guess it depends on how long of cables you're talking about, then cost could be a factor.

 

[jrdepew]

A good crimp is every bit as good or better than a soldered joint. The crimp can be tight enough to eliminate corrosion. The problem with some soldering jobs is that the solder can wick up the wire, creating a point that will be likely to break with a lot of flexing. Not a huge issue unless you are feeding a whole pound of solder in per joint, which I swear is exactly what some people try to do.

I'm betting the suggestion of a longer extension cord is based on voltage drop and conductor heating. The input current to welders is generally much lower than the output current. If the current through a conductor is lower then the voltage drop across that cable will be lower, and you will get less conductor heating.

Joe