jinma 354 wont start, dead....

[gergstuff]

I have a jinma 354 2007 I believe. I went to start it today to get a car unstuck from my driveway. Turned the key, all the usual lights lighted up, voltmeter showing 12 volts. Turned the key to heat waited 10 seconds then to start cranked for a few seconds then everything went dead. Turned key off then back on and nothing. Waited a few minutes turned key on lights on gauges active went to heat, everything went dead. Tried a few more times nothing, dead. Got my truck to pull the car that got stuck came back to the tractor after perhaps 20 minutes. Tried the key, power on, went to heat all ok tried to start and it spun a few revolutions then stopped. Tried key lights on went to start heard some small buzzing sound then nothing. Now no anything when I turned the key. Battery shows fine.
What gives?
any good ideass where to start.
thanks as always for the help.

craig

 

[SPIKER]

Sounds like the Key Switch went on ya. Heating thru it causes the contacts to heat up and they open up.

 

[greg_g]

I'm surprised your keyswitch lasted this long actually The failure rate is so well documented, that some savvy owners actually changed them out for aftermarket within a week of purchase. I recommend either the Ford or the Lucas cold start switch. Lucas is the better of the two, but harder to find. If you go Ford, just make sure you avoid the cheap Chinese clones

//greg//

 

[Rich Waugh]

Whatever key switch you end pu installing, I recommend putting a relay on the starter solenoid circuit and also on the glow plug circuit. The relays are cheap ($10) and with them and a few feet of #10 wire you then take almost all the load off the key switch contacts and supply much greater ampacity to the load circuit.

 

[gergstuff]

Ok, that all seems to make sense, any chance anyone has a part number for the ford or lucas switch?

lesson learned, will install a relay too.

anyway to bypass the key switch and get it started?

craig

 

[SPIKER]

bottom area I think should work but search FORD switch will get lots of results here on TBN.

ColdJinma

Looks like the URL in the word document dont work but TSC has the switches 25bucks

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/starter-and-heat-switch-for-ford-diesel-engines?cm_vc=-10005

relays style like this and the base wired can be had at the same time at same place just NOT this one.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Duralast-Relay-Glow-Plug/_/N-9cj6e?itemIdentifier=206249_0_0_

note this one is way high over priced, generic 30 amp relays should be 20 bucks with the pre-wired connector bases at most places. GM thing above is stupid priced at 179bucks lol
Mark

 

[greg_g]

That link SPIKER provided is for one of the Chinese clones. Caveat emptor. The current Ford number is E7NN11603AA, but that switch has been around a long time. Older part numbers for the same switch include C5NN11N572A, D5NN11N572A, D3NN11N501A, E8NN11N501AA, D5NN11N501A, 81871583, 83902803, 83959710, and 83976890. Not sure, but I think Lucas uses the same numbers. If not, they'll certainly cross over. Lucas is to the UK as Ford is to the USA.

//greg//

 

[Bob Rooks]

Forget the Ford, OEM, and other aftermarket switches. Get the Cole-Hersee switch. It's sealed, and designed for extreme environments. Available at NAPA and other parts sources.

 

[gergstuff]

Might you happen to have the Cole-Hersee part number? NAPA can't seem to cross reference the Ford parts number.
Thanks,
Craig

 

[RonMar]

You could also replace the key with a couple of heavy duty toggle switches. These things are so easy to hotwire, a key is very little protection. A hidden cutout switch would give me way more peace of mind than a key switch installed in an open back console

 

[gergstuff]

That is another option. I am not really too worried about anyone stealing it...our attack rooster is on guard!

Might anyone have a simple wiring schematic I could follow to incorporate the relay or relays that have been alluded to in this thread to protect the glow plug and or starter circuit?

 

[Rich Waugh]

I have a cut-out switch in the negative lead from the battery to the frame, both for security and to ensure against a transient short leaving me with a dead battery. With that and the aforementioned relays I've had no problems with the OEM switch - so far. I do have a Cole-Hersee marine key switch in the tool box for when the OEM switch does fail. I recommend that all switches and relays on a tractor be marine grade. Much more dependable and robust, designed for exposure to the elements.

 

[greg_g]

Yeah, marine grade is good if you the tractor is never shedded. Otherwise they're comparatively pricey.

I'm going to assume you'll use the common Ford-type relay. The GP relay is easy to describe, I mounted mine upside down on an existing hood release bracket bolt. Disconnect the OE (green) wire from the buss bar, and attach it to the small post on the relay (marked S). Cut a section of 10AWG primary wire and connect from one large post to the large post on the starter solenoid where the battery cable is connected. Cut another section of 10AWG primary wire and connect the second large relay post to the buss bar.

If you don't have any trouble with that, I'll then talk you thru a similar process for installing/connecting the starter relay.

//greg//

 

[gergstuff]

Now I have gone and done it...got the new switch and tried to wire it. I thought I had it all hooked up correctly, had power at the switch turned ignition on, guages and lights came on, went to glow and the voltage meter dropped as it did before went to start heard a click or two but starter did not engage. I thought I may have switched a wire I was pretty sure I had the power wire in the right spot and the wire to the glow plugs was right so I switched the other two. Mistake...turned the key heard a click then everything went dead. Now, no power at the switch at all. I dont seem to have any power past the solonoid on the starter.

Is there a fusable link on the starter? Maybe I cooked the solonoid? It might have been a problem after I cooked the switch?

further ideas?

thanks,

craig

 

[Coyote machine]

Now I have gone and done it...got the new switch and tried to wire it. I thought I had it all hooked up correctly, had power at the switch turned ignition on, guages and lights came on, went to glow and the voltage meter dropped as it did before went to start heard a click or two but starter did not engage. I thought I may have switched a wire I was pretty sure I had the power wire in the right spot and the wire to the glow plugs was right so I switched the other two. Mistake...turned the key heard a click then everything went dead. Now, no power at the switch at all. I dont seem to have any power past the solonoid on the starter.

Is there a fusable link on the starter? Maybe I cooked the solonoid? It might have been a problem after I cooked the switch?

further ideas?

thanks,

craig

I think you may need to slow down a bit. You said there was 12 volts at the battery at one point, IIRC? This is NOT enough voltage to start your tractor. Try charging your battery up on a charger and then go back to how you first had the wiring, before you decided to switch it around. When you get it running you should have around 14.25-14.40 Volts across the battery, and when you turn on your high beams that voltage may drop slightly. Until you get it wired right and started turn off the lights for now. Get it started and then check voltage, then add loads like lights, then check voltage again. One step at a time, verify what is working, then keep moving to next step. :thumbsup:

 

[gergstuff]

I switched the wires back to the way they were. I am getting no current at the switch at all wheras I was before. I am not getting any voltage upstream from the solinoid at all. The fuses are ok so I am guessing the solonoid got shorted or damaged?

 

[greg_g]

Go back to the original wiring setup I described, replace the 30A system fuse, use the compression release and a known good battery of no less than 750CCA. Thoroughly clean all four battery connections (with particular attention to the tractor frame end of the ground cable), try again.

//greg//

 

[Rich Waugh]

Yes, I'd say you blew the main 30 amp system fuse. You shouldn't be able to burn out the solenoid that way.

'Wiring is best checked with a multimeter, not by switching wires until you get smoke. You can get a perfectly serviceable multimeter from Harbor Freight for under ten bucks.

 

[gergstuff]

Ok, you guys are good...turns out I had a bad connection on the ground at the battery. So, now I have powerback, I am pretty sure I have all the wires connected to the switch correctly but it wont start from the key, I just get a click. I put my charger on the battery and amgetting 14 volts, with tge key in glow it drops to 12 volts. I was able to jump the solonoid and the starter spins and it starts and runs so do I conclude I have a bad solonoid? Can yiu get just a solonid for these or does one have to get a whole new starter? Only other thing I can think of is a break in the wire or perhaps corroded terminals on the solonoid or starter...

thanks for all the help, learn by doing, right.

craig

 

[Rich Waugh]

Could be almost anything, but a bad solenoid is way down the list of probable causes. What I suggest you do is go get a 12 volt 30 amp relay such as is used on headlight circuits and wire that in between the key switch and the solenoid. Use 10 gauge wire from the battery positive to the relay and from the relay to the solenoid. Use the existing wimpy wire from the key switch to the relay's coil contact and to ground. This way your key switch is only handling about 1 amp and the relay is carrying the heavier load of the solenoid. I did this on my Jinma and have never had another problem starting it. The 30 amp relay should only cost ten bucks or so and couple bucks for the 10 gauge wire.