1026R - shuts down in reverse with blower engaged

[Jtschnel]

Last night I had the opportunity to use my 1026R with a 47" snowblower. On parts of my drive I have to do a lot of short blows, backing up multiple times for the next short swath.

Last year, with my X485 and blower, when I pushed the reverse pedal the blower/pto stopped. As I was backing up I pushed the pto switch down and as soon as I started forward for the next swath I engaged the pto. Was a pain, but it got to where I could do it smoothly and quickly.

This year, with the 1026R when I did the same area, the response of the machine was different. When I got to the end of a short swath blowing and hit the reverse pedal the motor quit, not just the pto but the engine itself. If I took my foot off of the reverse pedal for an instant before the engine actually spooled down, it engaged and kept running. At that point in time I could push the reverse pedal again and move backward. At this point the pto had disengaged although the switch was still up in the on position. While backing up I pushed the pto switch down and as soon as I started forward again I pulled the pto switch up to engage the blower again.

I have a couple of questions:

1) has anyone else had the same issue of the engine cutting out with pto engaged and pushing the reverse pedal?

2) while blowing I generally run the machine at more than 2000 rpm, generally 2500 to 3000 rpm without slowing the engine rpm. How bad is this on the system engaging the pto at that speed?

3) I understand the safety aspect reasoning of shutting the pto off when going in reverse (although not cutting the engine) but I would rather have the pto stay engaged in reverse when I blowing and I suspect it would be easier on the machine. Has anyone gotten around this pto disengagement system?

Appreciate any feedback.

Jim

 

[buckshot721]

Your x485 pto switch needed to be pulled up when backing up to keep it engaged.

 

[murphy1244]

That can get real old real fast.

 

[RLstangs]

Read your operators manual. It tells you how to back up with the PTO on.
Using Reverse Implement Option (RIO)
c CAUTION: Avoid injury! Rotating blades are dangerous. Children or bystanders may be injured by runover and rotating blades.

Before backing up, carefully check the area around the machine.

NOTE: Backing up while mower is engaged is strongly discouraged. The Reverse Implement Option should be used only when operating another attachment or when operator deems it necessary to reposition machine with mower engaged.

1. Stop machine forward travel with attachment engaged.

2. Look behind machine to be sure there are no bystanders.

NOTE: If attachment stops while repositioning machine, return PTO/RIO switch to off position. Begin again with Step 2 in procedure.


MX46285, MX46199a

3. Lift PTO/RIO switch (A) up past the PTO engagement position to activate the reverse implement option. Then depress reverse travel pedal.

4. As machine begins to move backward, release PTO/RIO switch and reposition machine.

5. Resume forward travel. The attachment should continue operating.

6. Repeat Steps 1 through 5 to reposition machine again.

 

[kennyd]

There should be a sensor on the front quick hitch to disable the RIO when it's mounted. See your dealer...

 

[Jtschnel]

Thanks for the input folks. I did some work today and was able to keep the the pto engaged as long as I pulled up the pto switch on the dash before pushing the reverse pedal. One started backwards with the pto running I could let go of the switch and it would stay engaged. Just like it was designed, I suspect! ;-)

Concerning the sensor on the quick hitch, I'm going to contact the dealer about that as I don't see any wiring or sensor located on the quick hitch. Wish I would have gotten back and read your replies earlier as I had them deliver a rotary brush to me today and could have asked the technician when he was here.

Again, many thanks!

 

[RalphVa]

You'll also find it's tricked up if you want to use the rear PTO with no one in the seat. 1. have to have the parking brake on. 2. Must be in "rear" PTO position. 3. range selector must, of course, be in N. Then, you can finally pull up the PTO switch without killing the engine. Kind of a pain, but sounds as though using the mid PTO in reverse is more of a pill.

Ralph

 

[Jtschnel]

There should be a sensor on the front quick hitch to disable the RIO when it's mounted. See your dealer...

I forwarded this thread to my dealer last night. Today the service manager called and is coming to look at it tomorrow. He also apologized as it was his impression the service personnel had checked it.

So it looks like not only am I learning a lot from you folks, I'll also get the tractor to operate as I'd hoped .. and as it turns out, as it was actually designed.

It also points out to me that considering some of the stories I've read here, I am one of those who is fortunate enough to have a very good relationship with a very responsive dealer here in SW WI.

Again, thanks to all for sharing your knowledge.

 

[kennyd]

So JT, what is your serial number? This diagram is for 210001 - 310000, that should be the ones that have the RIO (including the 1025r's) as they first ones did not have it.

Here is the proper front PTO kit that had the sensor I mentioned (I mis-spoke when I said it was the hitch, sorry)




Front PTO (210001 - 310000)
Cart key PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
1 03M7191 Bolt 6 M10 X 25
2 LVA18329 Universal Joint With Shaft 1 Front PTO CV
3 E10018 Pressed Flanged Housing 4
4 JD9313 Ball Bearing 2
5 14M7517 Lock Nut 6 M10
6 LVU24529 Bracket 1 Hall Effect Sensor Support
7 LVA17409 Sensor 1 Hall Effect (Omni Directional)
8 19M7923 Cap Screw 1 M6 X 12
9 14M7528 Lock Nut 1 M6
10 LVA18264 Wiring Harness 1
Cart key PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
11 R105388 Tie Band 2
12 BLV10051 Power-Takeoff 1 NLA; ORDER BLV10166
BLV10166 Adapter Kit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


My bet is you have this front PTO without the sensor, and your serial number falls in the range I posted above:

 

[PsRumors]

I bypassed the RIO on my 1025r. Makes it much better. Not sure if there is a write up on here but there are write ups on the net.

 

[Jtschnel]

I bypassed the RIO on my 1025r. Makes it much better. Not sure if there is a write up on here but there are write ups on the net.

I did see a couple of methods where folks had bypassed, or effectively bypassed, the RIO. Not sure if it was here or GTT. One dealt with modification to the reverse switch under the deck. Another jumpered one of two pairs of connectors of the PTO dash switch. If all else fails I'll probably try the later=, but I'd much have it operate as its supposed to.

The service manager did stop at the house to take a look. Thanks to diagrams supplied by kennyd I was able to determine it does have the correct shaft assembly with the sensor. The service gent took a quick look at the wiring and it appears to be hooked up correctly. Since there is no adjustment to the sensor location, he's going to order another one. Hopefully, this will be all it takes.

kennyd, I'm assuming the serial number range you've given are the last 6 digits of the full number. If that assumption is correct, than I should be OK. The machines I have are 222913 and 222594 ... not sure which is which but both in the range you listed.

Will follow up when the new sensor comes in.

Thanks all.

 

[DeereMann]

There's no adjustment to the sensor location, but the gap spacing appeared quite sensitive to me. I spent a fair amount of time ensuring the gap I set was accurate - and the thing is hard to adjust assembled too.

I put it on app. 2 weeks ago, & mine works fine (can reverse w/o snowblower or engine cutting out).

Good luck!

 

[bandaidmd]

any chance your raising up in the seat when pressing the reverse pedal and thus activating a safety switch. Had that happen on a ford mower i used to own because of the reverse pedal having too stiff of a spring .

 

[Jtschnel]

any chance your raising up in the seat when pressing the reverse pedal and thus activating a safety switch. Had that happen on a ford mower i used to own because of the reverse pedal having too stiff of a spring .

At around 290 lbs, unfortunately no. ;-)

 

[Jtschnel]

Can someone clarify how the Hall Effect sensor works? I thought the sensor detected changes in a magnetic field. So here was my train of thought.

For example, if a shaft had a magnet embedded in it and as it rotated past a sensor, the sensor would be able to detect changes as the magnet passed it. So being able to detect when the magnet passed and the time between passes, you could figure out rpm, or just the simple fact the shaft was turning.

If that's correct and there is no magnet embedded in the pto shaft (hard for me to get down there to look but I didn't see one), could the shaft at the sensor location area be magnetized with the shape of the shaft at that area (pentagon?) providing varying distance from tthe sensor as it turns. If the sensor "tripped" when a high point went past, the circuitry could tell when he shaft was turning.

Assuming any of my thoughts are valid, could it be possible that the shaft was an earlier version with no magnets or not magnetized?

Sorry about the wandering thoughts ... Late Friday after a long week, maybe a couple of beers shouldn't be mixed with problem solving ... :confused3:

 

[pmsmechanic]

Hall effect interrupts a beam of light. It's used for timing on some older Fords.

 

[kennyd]

Hall effect interrupts a beam of light. It's used for timing on some older Fords.

Sorry, that is 100% incorrect sir, see this link: Hall effect sensor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[pmsmechanic]

You are right and I learned something new today. Thanks. Now i wish I could remember way back to where I started thinking that.

 

[Jtschnel]

This morning I used the 1026R with the rotary brush to clean a light dusting from last night. After becoming extremely frustrated the RIO disable function not working (replacement Hall Effect sensor not in yet), I decided to do the Jumper Method of bypassing the RIO function. I installed a switch under the hood similar to post #55 in the GTT forum thread. This link is a good resource for bypassing the RIO function:

http://www.****************.com/for...1-series-scuts-1026r-1023e-11.html#post101884

I've got a Tektite cab on my 1026R which made access a real pain in the butt. A few scrapes, bruises and knots on my head, but got it done.

I'll disengage the jumper when they bring a front quick hitch replacement sensor in an attempt to get the RIO disable function to work, but now I'm ready for more snow!

I'll follow up when they replace the sensor and let you know if it fixes the original problem.

 

[megotatractor]

A bit of rewiring is in order here..