ym2002d alternator possibility

[Car Doc]

Here is the related thread on this forum. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/yanmar/106525-installing-alternator-instead-generator-ym146.html I had actually placed an order right before Cardoc's response. I got back in touch with them and asked them to put it on hold but it may already be shipped. Guess I will find out something today. I could not find a phone number to call. I don't suppose it would be that expensive or difficult to install a voltmeter on the dash somewhere. Thoughts? Something like this work? In-Dash Voltmeter

The volt gage is/was my simple solution suggestion if you went with a 1 wire alt. Its handier more complicated yes on these super simple machines but I sure dont see it being a bad thing? I cant get on that other site to see what that guy did sorry I am not a member. I hope I didn't goof you up Winston ordering an alt I was just trying to help.

 

[Soundguy]

(not sure why I am being quoted here or what the point is humm...)

I was simply pointing out to the OP that not all 1-wire alts function as ONLY 1-wire alts. Just throwing it out there.

Ok let me get this straight-you are saying we go buy a specialty 1 wire (when 2 and 3 wire are the same price or less and even more plentiful))

I'm not saying to go buy anything.. and no.. i would not buy a higher priced 1 wire.. I find them inferior. I'd get a multi wire every time.

spend the time to tear it down, more than likely lose the warranty tearing the paper tag or security paint dab on a bolt head and )

tear down? paper tag? security paint? You've clearly no idea what I posted about on a 10-s1/ 12 si series. you don't open the alt case in any way.. nor do you remove any bolts.. nor do you change the clocking.. no paint dabs.. nuttin..

(then hope we dont switch the wrong wires frying the reg and eating that alt or buying a new regulator for it )

Again.. you must have never worked on this alt type.. you clearly do not know what you are talking about. I never mentioned opening the alt up. there is a plug on the 10/12 SI alt with 2 male spades.. .. marked 1 and 2

2 is the external sense line. On a 1 wire vreg.. it is USUALLY, INTERNALLY hooked to the charge stud.. In an auto.. with 3000 feet of wire. this line would be abattery voltage reference to be hooked at or near the battery or load center so that the vreg could charge at a higher voltage to make up for voltage drop thru the puny auto wire harnes.. in a ag application.. it's fine to just jump it to the charge stud.

1 is the excitation or turn on line. It needs a source of switched 12v power .. but one usually isolated from direct ignition, as it can backfeed to the ignition, keeping ignition coils running and preventing fuel kill solenoids from poping.. thus the idiot lamp ( or diode ) will work. Key on, lamp on.. after start and alt turns on, and voltage in the reg comes up.. voltage at reg #1 line and battery are essentially equal, thus no current flows, thus lamp goes off... just like god and GM intended it to work.

Many rebuilders snap in a plastic dummp cap cover over 1/2 on alts built with 1 wire regs. the cap pulls out with your fingertips.. it's just a push in / pull out cap the same OD as the normal gm wire harness plug that would fit that alternator.. no internal wireing needed. nor did i indicate any was needed.

(when that's all he needs now is a reg for his old dynamo? )

that's his call. I was posting on a 1 wire vs 3 wire alt setup.

(Holy bench vice batman! :laughing: (si alternators are way to big for this application anyway cs may be better and more expensive possibly but the import alts are better sized fwtw)

cs 130 costs more but is cheaper.. but the same info applies to them.. just different pins.. and different excitation specs. cs 130 alts spec for their to be 15 to 45 ohms in their excite line ( L ) for 1 wire.. or L and I can be used for for 2 wire setups.

 

[Car Doc]

That wasn't called for is insulting and completely out of line and is more telling of what you want people to think about you than anything. I am not impressed one bit.

edit: btw Where are you buying or modifying these 1 wire si conversions w/o tearing the case apart anyway? All I have ever seen is a modified regulator and that is inside the case.

 

[Soundguy]

hey.. you are the one posting that you had to tear apart the alt to wire a 3 wire up as 1 wire.. not me. I simply posted that you didn't have to.. and called into question your 'facts' on the subject.

You can buy 1 wire or 3 wire 10/12 si alternators. no need to mod them. buy the one you like.

Common style is the 3 wire. 1 wire are available for (usually ) marine application.. however many ham handed pseudo mechanics like to use them in ag applications as they lack the wherewithall to hookup a 2nd (isolated) wire for the excit line.

Hit a GOOD napa, car quest or oriely store. they can get you EITHER 10si style. .. you can also order by clock style to get the plug where you want it without turning it yourself. you can also order a 10si with a longer mounting ear.. it's a specialy item used on only a few older cars. I believe the chevette may have been one of them.. but i'm away from my notes. I have the napa # for the alts wrote down in my notebook at work.

Again. no need to open them up to do anything. simply order the style you want.. 1 wire.. or 3 wire.

And as I said. I've yet to see a 1 wire that will not function as 3 wire if you simply utilize #1 and #2 spade lugs just as you would on a standard 3 wire. I don't play with many alts.. but do get to handle the 10 / 12 SI units often enough.. perhaps weekly, counting my day job. The delco CS-130 are also popular as they are small form factor. some farmall people use them. small form factor Hitachi are also popular. I've used the hitachi on yanmar tractor. About the only other i mess with with any frequency ar ethe motorola alts used on the 70's era fords.

No insult intended... i simply call em as I see em.. and implying you had to open up the case to do any of this was incorrect.

 

[clemsonfor]

Alright lets get along guys. This is where people get mad and quit here. We dont want anyone to quit.

The problem is that this is the net and no one sees emotion. Im sure if this was in person converstion, there would be no problem as we could all have a conversation with no trouble.

Ok back to alt thread.

 

[Car Doc]

I dont do alternator conversions often like some may do on very many things. Ive done a few boats, changed a few 6 and 12 volt generator vehicles over to alternator chg systems. I also dont and didn't in this case claim to know everything there is to know about aftermarket alternators or anything aftermarket for that matter. My facts as you attempted to eloquently point out about what the 1 and 2 terminals do and how to simply wire one with a light is fact.

In fact (strangely) you re-iterated my every word and embellished it to attempt to make your point more valid than mine I found that odd it was that important to anyone.

With that said.. had I not been quoted (which to me is someone not being friendly always or being a smart azz) I wouldn't have taken any offense at all to simply saying or asking me was I aware of the regulators working like stock configuration by pulling the cap off the terminals?

I would have said no I wasn't but thanks for that info I was not aware of that and really would have no way of knowing it either because I never had the need to study the possibility of it and dont feel a bit bad about it either. Simply because of my line of work is fixing what is there not adding to or modifying. Saying I know nothing about the gm alternators or any automotive part (not withstanding aftermarket re-designed special purpose parts) for that matter most definitely is a reason to start a fight!

You or nobody else on here has any idea what I know or how I know it. I offer what I know for free and firmly believe in the idea either take it or leave it dont make a big deal out of whether you think you know more or not like this instance. I learned to be civil if you have differing opinions that arguing bs doesn't matter one bit or help someone posting who is needing help on something.

I come from an era and started my career at a time when we rebuilt everything on a car there was no reman anything so you can believe it I know the ins and outs of what I speak I dont have any reason to say otherwise.

I dont have to but I spend my morning and afternoon coffee breaks on here with the intention of learning and at times offer help when I have something to contribute. This isn't my life like some folks is that spend gobs of time on here it is a 10-20 minute coffee break and that's it for me no big deal.

Fact I wonder why anyone even bothers to help on these forums sometimes when some folks dont converse like they would in person and act like they jump up on their chair or desk and pound their chests and type big words that they would never get away with in person. my .002

 

[California]

Come on everybody, lighten up. It's normal for people to have different experiences and different opinions.

I sometimes have to remind myself of the posted house rules of a 1980's BBS - long before the WWW existed but the conversations had the same dynamics as presently:

"Be neither excessively annoying nor excessively annoyed".

 

[Soundguy]

Cardoc.. I quoted you because you said a line to the effect that some wiring explanation was simple but lengthy. Simple.. yes. lengthy? doesn't have to be.

I didn't go back to page1? go grab the quote as you apparently don't like to be quoted.

I'd rather read tractor forums than 1 sided fights. ( i'm not fighting).

If that's ok with you.. you ready to get back to reading?

 

[winston1]

Ok, the mechanical part is complete. A few pictures to show that. I put the alternator next to a coffee can so you can get a better idea of the size of it. Used a 39" A belt.

Now the bad news. It won't charge. I first hooked it up as best I know how according to the hand made drawing Scotty Dive had attached in post #17. Nothing there with charging although all electrical worked including warning lights. I then disconnected everything except a wire from the battery to the post on the alternator. Still no charge. Showing only battery voltage. Have I got a bad alternator??? :anyone:

This is the alternator. Alternator Chevy Mini Denso Street Rod Race 1 Wire 8162 | eBay
My reading indicates this is suppose to be a self energizing alternator.

Back with an update. I have found running a hot wire to the spade terminal closest to the post terminal will excite the alternator and it puts out a solid 14.5 volts. This tells me the alternator is ok. Just need help in making proper connections. I know there is help coming so I will be waiting.

Another update. I am attaching a scan of a 226 . The plug colors of the regulator are identical to my 2002. Anybody tell me what colors go where, etc.

Well, I'm having fun talking to myself anyway. I found these instructions. I am part way there. If I can figure out the ignition light wire maybe I will get it. Going to be busy tomorrow so may not get to tinker with it. But I will be back. http://westfield-world.com/daihatsu_alternator.html

 

[Neat 1500]

OK, i see 2 terminals and the stud. 1) Stud connected to Batt+ for charge 2) one of these spades is the charge light and the other needs a switched + wire from the ignition switch for voltage sensing. you may also have to change your charge light lamp for a 5W one if it's not already for it all to work correctly.And another thing, i told you that you were cluey enough to sort one out.....:thumbsup:

 

[winston1]

OK, i see 2 terminals and the stud. 1) Stud connected to Batt+ for charge 2) one of these spades is the charge light and the other needs a switched + wire from the ignition switch for voltage sensing. you may also have to change your charge light lamp for a 5W one if it's not already for it all to work correctly.And another thing, i told you that you were cluey enough to sort one out.....:thumbsup:

Thanks for your response Neat, my post wire goes down and hooks up right before the fuseable link that is right before the solenoid. Pretty confident this is correct. Closest spade to the post on the alternator is the exciter spade and I have it hooked up to a wire coming out of the old regulator plug that is energized when the switch is turned to the on position. This arrangement has the alternator charging.

Problem is the warning light. I know the green and yellow striped wire coming out of the old regulator plug goes to the charge light because I can touch 12 volts to it and light it up. I really don't understand how it works. If it takes voltage to light it, then seems like cutting the voltage off is what turns it off. I am thoroughly confused about it. Hooking it to the other spade on the alternator doesn't do anything. Anybody tell me just what kind of signal is suppose to be coming from that other spade on the alternator??? I feel pretty stupid and confused right now. :confused3:

 

[Neat 1500]

Thanks for your response Neat, my post wire goes down and hooks up right before the fuseable link that is right before the solenoid. Pretty confident this is correct. Closest spade to the post on the alternator is the exciter spade and I have it hooked up to a wire coming out of the old regulator plug that is energized when the switch is turned to the on position. This arrangement has the alternator charging.

Problem is the warning light. I know the green and yellow striped wire coming out of the old regulator plug goes to the charge light because I can touch 12 volts to it and light it up. I really don't understand how it works. If it takes voltage to light it, then seems like cutting the voltage off is what turns it off. I am thoroughly confused about it. Hooking it to the other spade on the alternator doesn't do anything. Anybody tell me just what kind of signal is suppose to be coming from that other spade on the alternator??? I feel pretty stupid and confused right now. :confused3:

\

You need to put 12v+ on one side of the warning light and the other side to the alternator, job done. It will then operate correctly. it turns to a - when it is NOT running, therefore illuminating the lamp. When it is running it becomes a + thus extinguishing the lamp. Thats the basic mechanics of that terminal

 

[winston1]

\

You need to put 12v+ on one side of the warning light and the other side to the alternator, job done. It will then operate correctly. it turns to a - when it is NOT running, therefore illuminating the lamp. When it is running it becomes a + thus extinguishing the lamp. Thats the basic mechanics of that terminal

I pulled the dash out far enough to access the bulb. It has a 3.4v bulb with two wires. One of the wires goes to ground. The other wire I have identified as the green and yellow wire on the regulator plug. Schematic shows it goes straight there without going through any other place. No voltage on the green and yellow wire with key in any position. Are you saying if I hook up 12 volts to the green and white, then take the ground loose and run it to the alternator spade that it should work?? I'm slow as you can see. :confused2:

 

[Neat 1500]

I pulled the dash out far enough to access the bulb. It has a 3.4v bulb with two wires. One of the wires goes to ground. The other wire I have identified as the green and yellow wire on the regulator plug. Schematic shows it goes straight there without going through any other place. No voltage on the green and yellow wire with key in any position. Are you saying if I hook up 12 volts to the green and white, then take the ground loose and run it to the alternator spade that it should work?? I'm slow as you can see. :confused2:

correct. do you mean 3.4watt? it needs to be a 12v lamp at 5 watts to work, the older alternators needed this but i am pretty sure the newer style with voltage sensing dont need a lamp that big but it wont hurt it. and yes ignition supply to lamp, other side of lamp to alternator and thats all it needs.

 

[winston1]

correct. do you mean 3.4watt? it needs to be a 12v lamp at 5 watts to work, the older alternators needed this but i am pretty sure the newer style with voltage sensing dont need a lamp that big but it wont hurt it. and yes ignition supply to lamp, other side of lamp to alternator and thats all it needs.

Oops :ashamed:, sure I meant 3.4 watts. I'll give that a try this morning and see what happens.

I am back with a success story. I did not change the bulb but hooked up as you dictated. I am charging with light out. Light comes on with key in run position, once she cranks, the light goes out. Thank you very much Neat 1500 and also thanks to all those who have given me input. I hope this will be a long term cure. Moving on now to the FX24D.

 

[clemsonfor]

did you buy a new tractor?

 

[winston1]

did you buy a new tractor?

No, talking about GWSMITH's FX24D.

 

[kenmac]

From what I,ve seen and read of your projects on this site, There wasn't a doubt in my mind that you wouldn't get it to work out

 

[Neat 1500]

:cool2: i knew you would pull that project off. i now think you will have many,many years of trouble free charging.