Rear remote Confusion

[drjay9051]

Posted this in Kioti forum this morning but to this point not much help.

I just ordered a DK40 HST. Getting a second rear remote. So that gives me 2 rear remotes. On my CK25 my biggest issue was screwing the toplink to adjust box blade etc. A real PITA ! I have been in touch with Brian at Fit Rite Hydraulics and will be getting his top link cylinder. I am not interested in the tilt as i find that function pretty easy to adjust compared to top link.

Anyway: the second rear remote would be for my eventual purchase of a grapple. Here is where i am lost: I have done searches and see reference to detent vs non-detent. Not sure which way to go. I understand the detent keeps valve open, correct? So the line is always pressurized. Applicable if you are off the tractor and operating a log splitter (picked this up during search).

Now for a grapple detent or non detent.? Dealer did not ask me if I wanted the 2nd rear to be detent or non detent.

To add to my confusion: suppose down the road I want to add the tilt feature and install cylinder. Can I hook hydraulic lines from second rear remote to tilt for box blade work and than disconnect lines and hook to grapple for trash removal ? Or do i need a 3rd rear remote dedicated to tilt?

Also wondering when I get the DK40 will there now be 2 levers , one for each rear remote or do i need to build/buy levers/ I ask because during my search i see where a member fashioned a handle. Link is below: reading this only added to my confusion about detent issue

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-buying-pricing/288874-kioti-hydraulics-what-do-i.html

Im really lost here. Should i ask dealer for a joystick type setup for when i do get grapple or just use separate levers for bucket and grapple?

Lastly Kioti offers an option called Hydraulic valve kit-single to double conversion. it is part # 322014. Is this in place of a second rear remote or is it the second rear remote?

Sorry for the long winded post. i just want to do this right the first time.

Thanks for your help.

 

[J_J]

I can not ever see a time to use detent on a grapple.

Even if you did get a good deal on a detent valve, you can always remove the detent operation.

Detent is for like you say, a log splitter or a hyd motor.

A diverter/selector would serve you better and keep the grapple stuff up front.

 

[drjay9051]

I can not ever see a time to use detent on a grapple.

Even if you did get a good deal on a detent valve, you can always remove the detent operation.

Detent is for like you say, a log splitter or a hyd motor.

A diverter/selector would serve you better and keep the grapple stuff up front.

Thanks JJ. Can you elaborate on that? Not sure what you mean. i was just going to run lines from the rear remote along a loader arm to attach to grapple when i get one down the road. Does a diverter move the remote to the front? Better to get a joystick for loader ? i believe that is what they mean by third function or do i control grapple with separate remote handle?

As you can see i have no clue about hydraulics. Do I ask for a "non detent" second remote from dealer. Any downside if remote comes detent? As mentioned the stock rear remote is detent. i have no idea about 2nd rear remote and i don't think dealer does either!

 

[J_J]

Some people run a set of hoses to the front for the grapple and try and operate the grapple with one hand and use the other hand on the joystick.

A diverter/selector valve will allow you to use the joystick to use either the tilt or the grapple by pressing a switch.

Some people get float on one or two of the spools for the T-N-T.

You might get one spool with 3 position detent.

You don't need detent on grapple .

A 3rd function will control anything you connect to it, by flipping a switch. It is use for certain things.

It can even work a grapple, but at one speed, fast.

Using the diverter valve, you can feather the tilt or the grapple.

If a valve comes with detent you can remove the springs and balls.

 

[Zebrafive]

I use a rear SCV for my grapple it has a "kick out" detent. For either direction, if you put the lever in detent, it stays there until maximum system pressure is reached, then "kicks out" and returns to neutral. I like it best when opening the grapple. I move the lever into detent. Then I can move my hand back to the joystick as the grapple opens.

 

[J_J]

You must be using a log splitter valve?

 

[banjodunn]

You must be using a log splitter valve?

No most detent control valves should work that way to protect the system, they usually pop out at around 2500 psi


Jon

 

[J_J]

What is the model number of your valve and manufacturer?

 

[murphy1244]

Posted this in Kioti forum this morning but to this point not much help.

I just ordered a DK40 HST. Getting a second rear remote. So that gives me 2 rear remotes. On my CK25 my biggest issue was screwing the toplink to adjust box blade etc. A real PITA ! I have been in touch with Brian at Fit Rite Hydraulics and will be getting his top link cylinder. I am not interested in the tilt as i find that function pretty easy to adjust compared to top link.

Anyway: the second rear remote would be for my eventual purchase of a grapple. Here is where i am lost: I have done searches and see reference to detent vs non-detent. Not sure which way to go. I understand the detent keeps valve open, correct? So the line is always pressurized. Applicable if you are off the tractor and operating a log splitter (picked this up during search).

Now for a grapple detent or non detent.? Dealer did not ask me if I wanted the 2nd rear to be detent or non detent.

To add to my confusion: suppose down the road I want to add the tilt feature and install cylinder. Can I hook hydraulic lines from second rear remote to tilt for box blade work and than disconnect lines and hook to grapple for trash removal ? Or do i need a 3rd rear remote dedicated to tilt?

Also wondering when I get the DK40 will there now be 2 levers , one for each rear remote or do i need to build/buy levers/ I ask because during my search i see where a member fashioned a handle. Link is below: reading this only added to my confusion about detent issue

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-buying-pricing/288874-kioti-hydraulics-what-do-i.html

Im really lost here. Should i ask dealer for a joystick type setup for when i do get grapple or just use separate levers for bucket and grapple?

Lastly Kioti offers an option called Hydraulic valve kit-single to double conversion. it is part # 322014. Is this in place of a second rear remote or is it the second rear remote? One of these will run your Top link the other you will run lines to the front to run your Grapple. PM me if you need any more help as I have the same set-up/

Sorry for the long winded post. i just want to do this right the first time.

Thanks for your help.

Your Tractor will come with one detent remote, when you order the second remote which is the one talk about at the end of your post that remote does not have detent. So total you have one with and one without. Have your dealer remove the detent Balls from the first remote. You will now have two detentless remotes with levers from the factory.

 

[Zebrafive]

You must be using a log splitter valve?

If you mean me, no factory rear SCV. JD 2030

 

[MtnViewRanch]

On my Mahindra 7520, I have 3 OEM remotes, all with self canceling detents and float function. Very very nice.

 

[J_J]

MtnViewRanch

Is your detent kick out adjustable? If not, what pressure does it kick out?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

MtnViewRanch

Is your detent kick out adjustable? If not, what pressure does it kick out?

No adjustment that I know of.

I do not know what pressure it kicks out at.:ashamed: It kicks out when the ram reaches the end of it's stroke. I would guess when it spikes it goes just over 2600psi. :confused3:

 

[J_J]

Do you know the manufacturer and model number of your detent valve?

 

[J_J]

I came up with this bit of data on a certain valve.

ADJUSTABLE RELIEF (2000 PSI (138 BAR) FACTORY SETTING

KICK-OUT IS NON-ADJUSTABLE
AND HAS A KICK-OUT RANGE OF 800-1000 PSI (55-69 BAR)

So what this is telling me is that it doesn't actually need a spike, just a load on the cyl of 800 to 1000 psi. If you want the cyl to lift a load and relieve at the relief pressure, you do not go into detent.

I look at detent as a quick hands off way of springing the lever back to neutral when the hyd function is completed.

When you try and raise a heavy load in detent with your application, does the cyl ever get to the end of travel?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Do you know the manufacturer and model number of your detent valve?

I do not know the manufacturer.

I came up with this bit of data on a certain valve.

ADJUSTABLE RELIEF (2000 PSI (138 BAR) FACTORY SETTING

KICK-OUT IS NON-ADJUSTABLE
AND HAS A KICK-OUT RANGE OF 800-1000 PSI (55-69 BAR)

So what this is telling me is that it doesn't actually need a spike, just a load on the cyl of 800 to 1000 psi. If you want the cyl to lift a load and relieve at the relief pressure, you do not go into detent.

I look at detent as a quick hands off way of springing the lever back to neutral when the hyd function is completed.

When you try and raise a heavy load in detent with your application, does the cyl ever get to the end of travel?

The heaviest load that I have ever used that function with is about 3500lbs. I normally use it with a 1000lb implement. It ALWAYS goes to the end of the stroke.

 

[J_J]

Just to be clear, were you in detent when you raised the 3500 lb or were you holding the lever to max with out going into detent?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Just to be clear, were you in detent when you raised the 3500 lb or were you holding the lever to max with out going into detent?

Put it into detent and let it collapse completely and kick out on it's own.

 

[banjodunn]

G'day I'm not saying they are all like it but every detented valve that I have worked on is usually set to kick out before relief so it doesn't load the system up. They are usually plumbed in on the open or lower circuit so that like a log splitter you can open the unit up while you move away from the control to do something else i.e get another piece of wood to split or operate other functions or move the tractor all the ones I have seen bar one have not been on the lift or close circuit as this is usually a dangerous way of doing it, imagine pulling a loader into lift detent while you are busy moving around in a shed .

The one I have seen was on a log splitter and the owner had plumbed it up on the split circuit and he was complaining that it would not hold in when splitting, after I replumbed it the right way he reckoned that it wasn't right and that it was designed to detent on the split cycle, it wasn't until I asked him what would happen if he got has hand caught and it was still trying to split that he thought it was better the way I did it.


Jon

 

[J_J]

Actually, the double lever auto log splitting valve from Prince with two detented levers will split the wood and at the end of stroke, will auto retract and then it will pop into neutral.

Both levers are pulled out to detent position, cylinder extends and at end of forward stroke one lever automatically returns to neutral and cylinder reverses. When fully retracted second lever returns to neutral. (3 work ports are used, two are tied to together and then run to rod end of cylinder, third connects to base end of cylinder).

You don't have to use the valve all the time in the auto mode, but it is there for a purpose.