Kioti No start
- Thread starter ra5451
- Start date
- Views: 37259
robarosa
Bronze Member
Way to funny. They just don't get the hint do they.
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
In looking at a DK45/50 schematic (which may not be exactly right for OP's machine). There are just a few hot wires once the engine is running, I understood ra5451's engine was running and the lights/flashers were off when the latest fuse blew. My schematic shows wire 003 goes from the 60 amp fuse to the key switch, the start relay, and the glow relay, and that's all. With the key switch in "run", wires 006 and 011 (accessory) and 006 (almost everything else) are also powered and feed the fuse panel. These wires feed fuses and everything else is downstream of a fuse. So it appears the short (to ground) must be in the key switch, one of the two relays, the actual fuse pad, one of the above-listed wires, or a connector (which not shown in schematic).
*correction: 003 also goes to the alternator.
There is one other possibility; poor (dirty/corroded) connections for the actual 60 amp fuse could cause enough overheating (especially during glow) to cause the fuse to blow at below-rating amperage.
*correction: 003 also goes to the alternator.
There is one other possibility; poor (dirty/corroded) connections for the actual 60 amp fuse could cause enough overheating (especially during glow) to cause the fuse to blow at below-rating amperage.
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
I sent you a link to see the schematic. It's about 1.5 MB. I don't think your actual ignition switch is the problem but it's easy enough to swap out. I generally advise against just swapping parts but sometimes that's the only way to find intermittent problems.
Ok...I'm back....
Today I put another battery in the Kioti. I also took the damaged connector out and tied the wires in individually. What's happening is the 60Amp fuse is blowing and the wire gets really hot...I removed most of the wire wrap looking for a short and not finding one yet...It's driving me up a wall. I removed all the body panels around the steering box for better access.....Could a relay behinf the dash cause this...Any other Ideas?
Today I put another battery in the Kioti. I also took the damaged connector out and tied the wires in individually. What's happening is the 60Amp fuse is blowing and the wire gets really hot...I removed most of the wire wrap looking for a short and not finding one yet...It's driving me up a wall. I removed all the body panels around the steering box for better access.....Could a relay behinf the dash cause this...Any other Ideas?
Coyote machine
Super Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,663
- Location
- Southern VT
- Tractor
- 22 SANY SY 50U, '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 BB, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Brush Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy
Why another battery? I take it that the damaged connector you took out is the female under the floorboards? Show pic or explain what 'tying the wires in individually' means. The only relays I'm aware of are on the firewall, not behind the instrument cluster. "What's happening is the 60Amp fuse is blowing and the wire gets really hot..." When is this happening? Do any relays get hot too? Is this when cranking the engine? After it is running? Have a fire extinguisher nearby just in case. And disconnect battery ground cable when not actively working on fixing the problem. I'd try disconnecting one relay connector at a time to see if it changes the symptoms; note: this suggestion is based on NOT knowing when the 60 Amp fused lead is hot.
Post back.
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
If you could identify which wire gets hot you will have it almost solved.
Coyote machine
Super Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,663
- Location
- Southern VT
- Tractor
- 22 SANY SY 50U, '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 BB, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Brush Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy
OK, sounds good. As Ritcheyvs said, if the 'hot' wire, which I believe you're saying is the 60 amp fused wire, can be traced to the source of what is causing it to become hot, and under what conditions, then you should be most of the way toward solving the problem. Keep at it. We'll get it!:thumbsup:
I suspect there is a relay, possibly, that may have some contacts welded together from the crossed wires under the floor having done some damage, before you found them all messed up, or somewhere there is a wire or a few cross connected and finding a path to ground where there shouldn't be one....
I suspect there is a relay, possibly, that may have some contacts welded together from the crossed wires under the floor having done some damage, before you found them all messed up, or somewhere there is a wire or a few cross connected and finding a path to ground where there shouldn't be one....
k0ua
Epic Contributor
IF the fuse blows before you ever hit the starter, then suspect the diodes in the Alternator..Remove all wiring to the alternator. See what happens.. Let us know exactly when the 60 amp fuse blows.. As soon as you put it in the holder? or when?
James K0UA
James K0UA
Ok...Update,.....I tested all the relays and connections behind the dash by un-hooking them and then trying the ignition....Still the same, no lights on dash and the 60 amp fuse (jumped) is still getting hot. I them disconnected the alternator cables and turned the key and the lights on the dash come on. The fuse is still hot and when I turn it to start it the started does nothing. I feel like i've made some progress but not quite there yet. HELP!
OK...This is the second time i'm typing this....Update MORe....I disconnected the connector from the module (see pics) then jumped the main fuse. I turned the key to the on position and it didn't get hot...I couldn't start it because the starter would not engage...Probably from disconnecting this module??? Is this the problem or can it be deeper in the spaghetti wiring???? Progress !!!!!! Just looked it up...This is a pre-heater controller....How can I test it?
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Keep in mind when the Glow plugs go into the pre-heat cycle, and that cycle is controlled by this module, that the glow plugs draw a bunch of current, probably greater than 50 amps and you might expect some temp rise of the wireing. Remember they are supposed to be on for a few seconds prior to you starting the engine (pre heat) and atcually they are are on for a few seconds after the engine starts also (post heat) even if the indicator does not show that. So bring us up to speed, here, If you replace the 60 amp fuse, it blows when? you didn't answer that question. and when you disconnect the wiring to the alternator it does what? blows? stays intact?. Please bring me up to speed as to what exactly we are fighting, and do you have the workshop manual?
James K0UA
James K0UA
More info....These are the test scenarios that I did...
1. everything was hooked up as normal
2. the 60 amp fuse is jumped and not hot
3. turn key to on position
4. fuse gets hot
5. turn key to engage starter and nothing happens
1. remmove all alternator wires
2. got same result as above
1. did more misc stuff
Now this is where i think it gets better
1. everything was hooked up as normal
2. the 60 amp fuse is jumped and not hot
3. turn key to on position
4. hot wire and start engine from starter
5. fuse gets hot
6 remove jumper from fuse
7. Parking brake light still on
8. turn key to the off position
9. Tractor still runs but a little sluggish
Any ideas
1. everything was hooked up as normal
2. the 60 amp fuse is jumped and not hot
3. turn key to on position
4. fuse gets hot
5. turn key to engage starter and nothing happens
1. remmove all alternator wires
2. got same result as above
1. did more misc stuff
Now this is where i think it gets better
1. everything was hooked up as normal
2. the 60 amp fuse is jumped and not hot
3. turn key to on position
4. hot wire and start engine from starter
5. fuse gets hot
6 remove jumper from fuse
7. Parking brake light still on
8. turn key to the off position
9. Tractor still runs but a little sluggish
Any ideas
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
Maybe you found the problem. Does your tractor have a separate run and glow position on the key switch and (if so) did the fuse blow both positions or only in glow? If only in glow, the relay is a likely cause.
By the way. you can blow the alternator diodes by disconnecting the battery with the engine running. It doesn't happen every time, especially if there are lights or other loads on the electrical system. But do check your alternator for blown or fused diodes when the bigger problems are fixed.
By the way. you can blow the alternator diodes by disconnecting the battery with the engine running. It doesn't happen every time, especially if there are lights or other loads on the electrical system. But do check your alternator for blown or fused diodes when the bigger problems are fixed.
Coyote machine
Super Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,663
- Location
- Southern VT
- Tractor
- 22 SANY SY 50U, '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 BB, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Brush Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy
Whoa! Slow down a bit, it's hard to follow what exactly you're doing. You say you 'jumped' the 60 amp fuse? What exactly do you mean and why were/are you 'jumping' it?
Most recently you: "..swapped the relays on the firewall, and it started.."- without a fuse blowing?
Are the relays the same number? Careful they may not be swap-able as far as their intended use/function.
What exact results do you have now from having swapped them out? No excessive heat on the 60 amp fuse wire?
Post back exactly what the current status is with specific details.
As James said, plug your alternator harness back in, if not already done.
OK....As you can see by the rats nest I've created I have some wire wrapping to do. So...Here's the solution..I swapped the relays for a second and the tractor started and stopped. After all of this it was the 70 amp Relay for the starter. I called my local Kioti dealer (1.5 hours away) and he had the relay and more 60 amp fuses. I spent 3 hours on my motorcycle to get the parts...Nice day to ride....After replacing the relay and putting a new 60 amp fuse in,,,it works...I had tested all the relays, but evidently it was bad....See the pics below....
Thanks to CM, K0oa, rich and especially Jim who I was able to call for guidance...Thankx to all!!!!!
Thanks to CM, K0oa, rich and especially Jim who I was able to call for guidance...Thankx to all!!!!!
