Newly Rebuilt Tractor Overheating

[Coyote machine]

We are having a friendly conversation is that ok with you?

Didn't know my permission was needed to carry on this friendly conversation, but for purposes of keeping it 'friendly' by all means carry on. Permission granted.
It may be plenty friendly, for the most part but not very constructive. I've seen everything under the sun thrown out as possible causes, from cracked blocks to bad caps, radiators, water pumps, head gaskets, hoses, foreign objects, etc.
Logic would dictate to those who actually work on engines that bubbles in the overflow tank are MOST likely related to exhaust gases escaping from an improperly sealed head to block and caused by the gasket between them not doing it's job for any number of reasons. The fact that anti-sieze was used would lead me again toward what was done last- assembly of head to block and torquing of head bolts. Thus, checking actual torque tightness of the bolts after running the engine a few times through it's paces would reveal exactly what was revealed- loose bolts. Tighten bolts and run her again. Problem solved- case closed. Little wild-a$@ed guessing and a lot of time and energy saved.

As far as anti-seize, it's great stuff and I use it all the time. It may be specked for use on Navy vessels which are in a particularly corrosive environment all the time but most tractors aren't subjected to constant salt air and such, and therefore preclude the need for such extra measures. And as Dirtdonkey said torque specs could be reduced with it's use - which in this particular situation led directly to the problem and solution to same. Retorque till spec is reached and engine checks out as running properly- part of normal rebuild breakin proceedure.:hypnodisk:eace:

 

[dirtdonkey]

From my experience with the first gasket, that I had to replace, the gasket material actually melts onto the head when it gets hot. I should have thought about that when I noticed the blowby that was the only thing that made sense as to where the heat was coming from. I'm just hoping that I didn't blow too much material away from the gasket and still have small leakage? Takes me back to my original statement that I wish I had the factory METAL gasket that Yanmar used on the assembly when it was new. I don't think I would have had this problem. Lesson learned and hopefully I'll never have to go through it again. Again thanks for everyone's input and help.

 

[clemsonfor]

But AAron at Hoye says he has some OE yanmar gaskets still in yanmar packaging that have fiber in them? Not saying yur original was not metal but there could of been a redesign by yanmar itself in the last 30 YEARS!

 

[dirtdonkey]

Absolutely, I have very little knowledge about Yanmar or any other tractor for that matter. All I knew was what I took off and what they sent me and it was so completely different I just didn't see how it would work, but then again there are always new ideas and new processes. Unfortunately my tractor overheated after I rebuilt it and it must have been leaking at the head gasket. I put on a second one, following the manual instructions. There were no instructions that came with the head gasket so I didn't realize I'd done something wrong. Clearly you need to install the head gasket. Run the motor at low speed until you get it up to a good temperature all over, shut it off and then re-torque the head back down to make sure everything seals. Like I said I'm at 135 lbs torque right now, I checked with an arm type torque wrench and a new click type that I just purchased. Both indicated I was at the correct torque and given I've used Nickle Anti-seize it should be about 10-12% higher than that so I should have plenty of torque. If anyone is aware of something I'm doing wrong or if I should be torquing higher please let me know but I'm going with factory specs for now. Having the head shaved would have raised the compression slightly so maybe it needs to be torqued higher, I just don't know.

 

[Car Doc]

Didn't know my permission was needed to carry on this friendly conversation, but for purposes of keeping it 'friendly' by all means carry on. Permission granted.

Its not that was the point.

We are all doing the best we can to help these folks with the info that's presented like we always do. You are welcome to your opinions same as all of us. So dont criticize the content of this discussion as "everything under the sun" they are all someones opinion given in good faith take them or leave them.

So if you dont like it just dont participate in the discussion or find a way to be constructive yourself and be respectful of others ideas. Don't go away mad just go away if you dont like it. :thumbsup:

Sorry to jack your thread Dirtdonkey I sure didn't plan on it. I look forward to hearing its running like it should.

 

[clemsonfor]

Just throw this in there, things are not always as they seem. Sometimes these wild guesses of things it could be turn out to what it actually is. Most folks said HG but other ideas were thrown out for the overheat issue which did not turn out to be overheating at all but just combustion gasses. Look back at 80% of any tbn trouble post threads and you will see the same pattern.

 

[kenmac]

I would have never guessed head gasket after you re- built the engine and installed new gaskets. Things are sometimes hard to diagnose from behind a computer screen. Good luck .I hope you've solved your problems

 

[Coyote machine]

Its not that was the point.

We are all doing the best we can to help these folks with the info that's presented like we always do. You are welcome to your opinions same as all of us. So dont criticize the content of this discussion as "everything under the sun" they are all someones opinion given in good faith take them or leave them.

So if you dont like it just dont participate in the discussion or find a way to be constructive yourself and be respectful of others ideas. Don't go away mad just go away if you dont like it. :thumbsup:

Sorry to jack your thread Dirtdonkey I sure didn't plan on it. I look forward to hearing its running like it should.

Really, my permission is NOT necessary?! Seems you like to tell others what to do and when and how. Take your own advice and try contributing something useful, if possible or move over for those who might be able to actually diagnose a problem, without encompassing everything under the sun as a possible solution. Just because half this thread is people's opinions doesn't make them relevant to the solution, nor do I need to take them or leave them.
Sorry if telling it like it actually is is too much for YOU to handle.
All I've said is totally relevant to the fix for this problem- as a result of professional knowledge gained from years of successful engine repair. Also take your own advice and go away, sooner than later. Your lame apology for hijacking this thread doesn't cut it.

To the OP, you're worrying un-necessarily. Drive the tractor and forget about the gasket for now. Retorque after some hours on it. It ought to be good going forward regardless of what it's made of. I would NOT torque it any tighter right now, you could take what's good and crush it too far.

 

[Car Doc]

Name one instance where I tell someone to do something when and how? And that starts off your diatribe off on the wrong foot from the get go speaks volumes.

Far as what I contribute that is for the individual and the group to decide for themselves remember you get what you paid for. I also happen to own a Yanmar that's the same chassis and basic engine as his and have experience working on this engine do you?

I dont recall you ever being in on the Yanmar group discussions before either as far as offering help before? Makes no difference just goes to show how little you actually know about me or what we talk about.

I have been doing this type work a long time nothing I have to say is a wag its all been earned and offered up as free advice when I can. So like I said take it or leave it and I really really really mean it! As far as an apology goes I was apologizing as much for you as anyone what you think about it is irrelevant I did my part its you that owes one now.

I am man enough to own up to wasting space arguing with you on the forum over your insistence that you would have the tractor fixed if only someone would just listen to you.

Fact I am big enough to walk away and let it be what it is a stupid waste of space and effort. Also as far as what you think about me it is apparently way more important to you than me so read something into that.

 

[Coyote machine]

Name one instance where I tell someone to do something when and how? And that starts off your diatribe off on the wrong foot from the get go speaks volumes. Blah, Blah..

Far as what I contribute that is for the individual and the group to decide for themselves remember you get what you paid for. I also happen to own a Yanmar that's the same chassis and basic engine as his and have experience working on this engine do you? Blah, Blah, Blah...

I dont recall you ever being in on the Yanmar group discussions before either as far as offering help before? Makes no difference just goes to show how little you actually know about me or what we talk about.

I have been doing this type work a long time nothing I have to say is a wag its all been earned and offered up as free advice when I can. So like I said take it or leave it and I really really really mean it! As far as an apology goes I was apologizing as much for you as anyone what you think about it is irrelevant I did my part its you that owes one now. Blah, Blah, blah, blah.

I am man enough to own up to wasting space arguing with you on the forum over your insistence that you would have the tractor fixed if only someone would just listen to you. Blah....

Fact I am big enough to walk away and let it be what it is a stupid waste of space and effort. Also as far as what you think about me it is apparently way more important to you than me so read something into that.
Blah, blah....

Take a dozen: :chillpill::chillpill::chillpill: Rewind your:cuckooclock::cuckooclock:
This is like a bad: :comedy:
Look into the: :hypnodisk: and count down from ten until u disappear.

 

[284 International]

All I've said is totally relevant to the fix for this problem- as a result of professional knowledge gained from years of successful engine repair.

Come on, Coyote machine. The very FIRST response to the OP's thread suggested a bad head gasket. The next reply suggested re-torquing the head. Other advice followed. When dirtdonkey first responded to the assorted headgasket, radiator, water pump, and fill cap suggestions, he said he had already removed the head, re-inspected everything, etc. His words were "My first thought was the head gasket..." If he had already done that process, again, and verified everything was properly installed, I really don't think it is unreasonable to start looking elsewhere.

As background for you, dirtdonkey's tractor was made, at the latest, in 1981. The variety of grey-market tractors many of us have usually spent the first 20 or 25 years of their life in rice paddies in Japan. It was common practice for those farmers (for reasons I'm not entirely clear about) to fill the radiators with the silty rice paddy water to use as coolant. It is very common to have large amounts of silty crud, and the affiliated rust and other gunk, come out of the block when a thorough flushing is performed. Even new radiators have been blocked by the crud, and generally speaking, most head gasket failures are secondary to the tractor overheating, and this is overwhelmingly due to insufficient cooling. My point is simply this: Having already been told by the OP that the head and block have been trued, and having been replaced twice, it is not an unreasonable leap to start looking elsewhere, especially on machines that are notorious for having unusual problems with the cooling systems.

The way you're talking to Car Doc is totally out of line. He has offered excellent advice to many people here. You said

Logic would dictate to those who actually work on engines that bubbles in the overflow tank are MOST likely related to exhaust gases escaping from an improperly sealed head to block and caused by the gasket between them not doing it's job for any number of reasons. The fact that anti-sieze was used would lead me again toward what was done last- assembly of head to block and torquing of head bolts. Thus, checking actual torque tightness of the bolts after running the engine a few times through it's paces would reveal exactly what was revealed- loose bolts. Tighten bolts and run her again. Problem solved- case closed.

Which is exactly what WAS first suggested, and had been the first thing tried, all of which came after the suggestions to check the headgasket situation, and after the OP had already removed the head and inspected everything. How many times would you have him check or replace the same thing before moving on to other potential issues, especially given the known history of these machines for popping headgaskets from cooling issues? There's no reason to NOT be friendly here, either. You said

It may be plenty friendly, for the most part but not very constructive. I've seen everything under the sun thrown out as possible causes, from cracked blocks to bad caps, radiators, water pumps, head gaskets, hoses, foreign objects, etc.

Car Doc doesn't need me to stand up for him; he likely doesn't really care what you think. However, YOU don't need to be obnoxious or unfriendly. Telling Car Doc to go away is unbelievably rude. If you don't want to interact with him, leave. By post 22, dirtdonkey had fixed the problem, after replacing a headgasket, and re-torquing the fasteners after some run time. Once the guy's tractor is operating properly, I think everything is more or less handled. No one ever questioned your input until you started acting like a jerk; even then there's no question about the quality of the advice, merely the way it's been delivered. Be nice to people. There's no reason to be otherwise. I can see where you might have misunderstood Car Doc's comment about having a friendly conversation; that's still no reason to be unfriendly or impolite. Telling someone to leave a forum where they regularly contribute constructive, friendly posts is both unfriendly and impolite. I'm not the TBN police, but you're out of line for suggesting he leave and not come back, and owe him an apology.

 

[Coyote machine]

Come on, Coyote machine. The very FIRST response to the OP's thread suggested a bad head gasket. The next reply suggested re-torquing the head. Other advice followed. When dirtdonkey first responded to the assorted headgasket, radiator, water pump, and fill cap suggestions, he said he had already removed the head, re-inspected everything, etc. His words were "My first thought was the head gasket..." If he had already done that process, again, and verified everything was properly installed, I really don't think it is unreasonable to start looking elsewhere.

As background for you, dirtdonkey's tractor was made, at the latest, in 1981. The variety of grey-market tractors many of us have usually spent the first 20 or 25 years of their life in rice paddies in Japan. It was common practice for those farmers (for reasons I'm not entirely clear about) to fill the radiators with the silty rice paddy water to use as coolant. It is very common to have large amounts of silty crud, and the affiliated rust and other gunk, come out of the block when a thorough flushing is performed. Even new radiators have been blocked by the crud, and generally speaking, most head gasket failures are secondary to the tractor overheating, and this is overwhelmingly due to insufficient cooling. My point is simply this: Having already been told by the OP that the head and block have been trued, and having been replaced twice, it is not an unreasonable leap to start looking elsewhere, especially on machines that are notorious for having unusual problems with the cooling systems.

The way you're talking to Car Doc is totally out of line. He has offered excellent advice to many people here. You said


Which is exactly what WAS first suggested, and had been the first thing tried, all of which came after the suggestions to check the headgasket situation, and after the OP had already removed the head and inspected everything. How many times would you have him check or replace the same thing before moving on to other potential issues, especially given the known history of these machines for popping headgaskets from cooling issues? There's no reason to NOT be friendly here, either. You said




Car Doc doesn't need me to stand up for him; he likely doesn't really care what you think. However, YOU don't need to be obnoxious or unfriendly. Telling Car Doc to go away is unbelievably rude. If you don't want to interact with him, leave. By post 22, dirtdonkey had fixed the problem, after replacing a headgasket, and re-torquing the fasteners after some run time. Once the guy's tractor is operating properly, I think everything is more or less handled. No one ever questioned your input until you started acting like a jerk; even then there's no question about the quality of the advice, merely the way it's been delivered. Be nice to people. There's no reason to be otherwise. I can see where you might have misunderstood Car Doc's comment about having a friendly conversation; that's still no reason to be unfriendly or impolite. Telling someone to leave a forum where they regularly contribute constructive, friendly posts is both unfriendly and impolite. I'm not the TBN police, but you're out of line for suggesting he leave and not come back, and owe him an apology.

I didn't misunderstand cardoc's comment to me at the beginning of what he chose to do, which is be sarcastic and rude himself.
Regardless of all the back and forth the fact is what I stated- retorque head bolts and for future reference don't use anti-seize in that application. I happen to be a skilled diagnostician, and others can suggest all kinds of other stuff- it is and was NOT the head gasket; it IS improper installation of same.
These forums are not person specific, they're PUBLIC forums, and anyone can participate. I did not tell guru car doc to leave until after he had suggested to me to do so. Regardless, you guys need to lighten up- contributions by new to a specific forum members adds insight into clearly confused areas where no new breath has breathed in ages if ever. Forget about an apology, it won't be happening. Move on to another topic.

 

[284 International]

...I happen to be a skilled diagnostician, and others can suggest all kinds of other stuff- it is and was NOT the head gasket; it IS improper installation of same....
These forums are not person specific, they're PUBLIC forums, and anyone can participate.

I haven't seen where anybody questioned any of that.

I think it is also true your tone was/is out of line, and unfriendly. There's nothing further to be gained here by discussing this; you know you aren't being nice, and don't care. Your advice was correct, nobody has disputed that.

It would seem to some that you have revealed your character by acting as you have, but I've read some of your other posts in other sub-fora and you were much more polite. I find it unfortunate that one can have the ability to offer good advice, and still be unpleasant in interactions with other people. It doesn't help disseminate good information. I'm not sure why you have been so prickly here, but I look forward to reading polite, constructive advice from you and others wherever it is found.

 

[Coyote machine]

Here's the thing. I contribute after reading a thread of interest and contribute as a means of sharing knowledge gained from years of experience in specialized fields of endeavor.
Those who share whatever on specific forums like the antagonist in this thread get bent out of shape when someone else suggest their line of thought is not topic specific.
I entered the discussion staying to not use antiseize on head bolts. This was immediately agreed with. Then cardok came in with Chevy v8 head bolts and moly lube. Irrelevant and not pertinent to the fix.
HE began with the sarcastic nasty remarks NOT me.
Again, I prefer to get the op on the right track and squelch any extraneous noise that might further confuse the issue like a lot of the wild guesses. Indian or Chinese water and possible crowding caught up in the water jackets also largely interesting but not the issue. The op had Abadan piston and did everything right for but one minor mistake- the addition of lube where none was warranted.
All the nonesense about if I have a yammer etc is crap.
I don't have to prove myself here or elsewhere.
I'm nice when treated with respect.
Otherwise the gloves are off until people come to their senses.

 

[Coyote machine]

Here's the thing. I contribute after reading a thread of interest and contribute as a means of sharing knowledge gained from years of experience in specialized fields of endeavor.
Those who share whatever on specific forums like the antagonist in this thread get bent out of shape when someone else suggest their line of thought is not topic specific.
I entered the discussion staying to not use antiseize on head bolts. This was immediately agreed with. Then cardok came in with Chevy v8 head bolts and moly lube. Irrelevant and not pertinent to the fix.
HE began with the sarcastic nasty remarks NOT me.
Again, I prefer to get the op on the right track and squelch any extraneous noise that might like a lot of the wild guesses.
All the none sense about if I have a yammer etc is crap.
I don't have to prove myself here or elsewhere.
I'm nice when treated with respect.
Otherwise the gloves are off until people come to their senses.

 

[284 International]

Again, I prefer to get the op on the right track and squelch any extraneous noise that might further confuse the issue like a lot of the wild guesses. Indian or Chinese water and possible crowding caught up in the water jackets also largely interesting but not the issue.

But by that time the issue was resolved. He had replaced the head gasket, run the machine, and re-torqued the fasteners. Your advice was correct. It was also unneeded by that point, since he had done it already. The discussion about whether or not he should have used moly lube, anti-seize compound, or some other substance was, by then, an interesting and informative topic that was tangential to the original point.

I stand by my statement that you knew you weren't being nice. This feels like a kid going to another neighborhood's park and trying to change the rules of some other kids already playing Red Rover. There's no ownership of the field by any of the participants, but there is already a group using the facilities in their own way. Being upset when the kids don't play Red Rover the way you like it done isn't right or fair, and telling another kid to leave the park and not come back is out of line. I'm not saying you're being childish, merely not nice. Belligerence over diagnostic procedures on a tractor is silly to me, on anybody's part, whether it is their perceived turf or not. There are many people, in many places, who are in need of good diagnostic advice for their tractor's problems. You have helped many people with polite, useful, systematic advice. That was not the case here, and you shouldn't feel any need to have your "gloves off" until we come to our senses. Just play nicely and let other people do the same, especially when the game you want to help them figure out has already been over for awhile.

 

[RickB]

Typical multipage TBN thread; problem resolved, yet somebody is still dancing around the fire beating his chest claiming to be more 'right' than anyone else.
Get over yourself already, cm.

 

[California]

Typical multipage TBN thread; problem resolved, yet somebody is still dancing around the fire beating his chest claiming to be more 'right' than anyone else.
Get over yourself already, cm.

The strange thing here is that this Yanmar forum is one of the most civil groups on TBN, or online anywhere. These tractors we discuss are orphans. Yanmar departed the US market 20?? years ago, then gray market importers brought over a flood of Japanese-spec Yanmars. This community of interested owners is the primary support (along with a few major mailorder parts dealers) for nearly all the Yanmars in the US. (Recent model Yanmars have dealer support and warranties so only a few of their owners show up here).

And - these old Yanmars are simple. When a newbie shows up with a problem and asks for others' experience on his issue, usually several people respond describing the last several times that question was asked, and answered. Substantial mutual respect has developed here over the years.

CM, you don't realize what you walked into. You seem oblivious to the cultural clues here - different people express different levels of expertise but all the present participants do so with obvious mutual respect. The poster you have been arguing with owns an auto repair shop, while you have offered nothing to substantiate your claimed vast experience. I wonder if your experience is half of his.

When I first started reading here the Kioti forum was a joke to everyone else, it was full of posters with attitude. The moderators were needed constantly. Several owners got banned when they didn't have the sense to tone down their meanness. This Yanmar forum has never sounded like that and I don't think that approach would get any traction here.

Now - if you have something to add to any of these threads that broadens our knowledge we would love to hear it.

 

[winston1]

I personally watch Car Docs posts very carefully. Time has proven them to be a great asset here. Seems to me he always posts with humility. I will be the first to admit a lot of my ideas are hogwash but I don't try to present them as factual.

 

[Coyote machine]

But by that time the issue was resolved. He had replaced the head gasket, run the machine, and re-torqued the fasteners. Your advice was correct. It was also unneeded by that point, since he had done it already. The discussion about whether or not he should have used moly lube, anti-seize compound, or some other substance was, by then, an interesting and informative topic that was tangential to the original point.

I stand by my statement that you knew you weren't being nice. This feels like a kid going to another neighborhood's park and trying to change the rules of some other kids already playing Red Rover. There's no ownership of the field by any of the participants, but there is already a group using the facilities in their own way. Being upset when the kids don't play Red Rover the way you like it done isn't right or fair, and telling another kid to leave the park and not come back is out of line. I'm not saying you're being childish, merely not nice. Belligerence over diagnostic procedures on a tractor is silly to me, on anybody's part, whether it is their perceived turf or not. There are many people, in many places, who are in need of good diagnostic advice for their tractor's problems. You have helped many people with polite, useful, systematic advice. That was not the case here, and you shouldn't feel any need to have your "gloves off" until we come to our senses. Just play nicely and let other people do the same, especially when the game you want to help them figure out has already been over for awhile.

Stand by whatever you want and tell me that my point was tangential, and un-necessary all you want. All you and others who follow are proving is that those on this forum are a tight knit group of Yanmar followers who aren't interested in anyone's input except their own. Fine, follow yourselves around and lavish praise. Close mindedness and groupthink will not help you Yanmar guys get any new insight into your special way of doing things no matter how convoluted.
Criticise me all you want, but look at who started the; 'we're just having a friendly conversation here if that's alright with you' comment. It WASN'T me.