RAM 1500 V6 8-speed test.

[Dmace]

I believe he was just saying the little v6 ecoboost out tows his old Dodge that was heavy duty so I guess it was a 2500 or 3500.

And I'm saying my V8 HEMI out tows my old Ford diesel. It has nothing to do with manufacturers but shows just how technology has advanced.

Why are you Ford guys always trying to compare brand new trucks to yesterdays iron? Comparing the RAM V6 and new 8 speed to the still new Ecoboost is not comparing old to new. It's showing just how close a well designed simple powertrain can compare to tons of expensive unreliable technology.

By the way Ham, what's that Ecoboost get for fuel mileage while towing what your old HD truck did? :laughing:

 

[94BULLITT]

And I'm saying my V8 HEMI out tows my old Ford diesel. It has nothing to do with manufacturers but shows just how technology has advanced.

Why are you Ford guys always trying to compare brand new trucks to yesterdays iron? Comparing the RAM V6 and new 8 speed to the still new Ecoboost is not comparing old to new. It's showing just how close a well designed simple powertrain can compare to tons of expensive unreliable technology.

By the way Ham, what's that Ecoboost get for fuel mileage while towing what your old HD truck did? :laughing:

I don't believe he was really comparing it to the dodge he was just saying. You are way too close minded. If he said the dodge out towed the ecoboost you would have been all over that.

The fiat or is that phiat v6 with 8 speed is not comparable to the ecoboost. Look how much better the ecoboost did in the towing competiton that you posted.

 

[Dmace]

The fiat or is that phiat v6 with 8 speed is not comparable to the ecoboost. Look how much better the ecoboost did in the towing competiton that you posted.

Amazingly, you still don't get it. This is NOT a direct comparison, they are just showing how well it performs. If by "towing competition" I posted you mean the best sub-$30k truck, read it again. There is no Ecoboost, for $30k in a Ford you can't even get a quad cab let alone the Ecoboost. Ford had to send an extended cab 5.0l. :laughing:

Comparing a new 8-speed transmission to a 6-speed is similar to comparing an truck from 8 years ago. Not a fair comparison.

You really think this 8 speed transmission is worth 8 years of development over what Ford currently offers? Wow, little faith in your product huh?

Give me an ecoboost with that 8-speed and that would be the best combination for a gas powered truck using today's technology.

Wasn't it you that said the 8 speed transmission would only be a bandaid for an engine with a poor torque curve? Now your precious Ecoboost would benefit from one?

 

[94BULLITT]

Amazingly, you still don't get it. This is NOT a direct comparison, they are just showing how well it performs. If by "towing competition" I posted you mean the best sub-$30k truck, read it again. There is no Ecoboost, for $30k in a Ford you can't even get a quad cab let alone the Ecoboost. Ford had to send an extended cab 5.0l. :laughing:

It seems to be a direct comparisoin on some aspects for you. I was refering to post #3 on the towing.

You can buy crew cab Ford 4x4 5.0's all day long for less than 30k and there are few ecoboost for crew cab 4x4's for under 30k . I realize the test was going off of MSRP. What is so funny about the 5.0? I would much rather have a extended cab V8 than a base v6 crew cab. Who in reality is going to buy the pentastar ram? I bet most will be used for a company truck. Nobody wants a V6 in fullsize truck except for the Ecoboost. I would not buy a F-150 with a 3.7 even if if had a 10 speed.

 

[Hay Dude]

It seems to be a direct comparisoin on some aspects for you. I was refering to post #3 on the towing.

You can buy crew cab Ford 4x4 5.0's all day long for less than 30k and there are few ecoboost for crew cab 4x4's for under 30k . I realize the test was going off of MSRP. What is so funny about the 5.0? I would much rather have a extended cab V8 than a base v6 crew cab. Who in reality is going to buy the pentastar ram? I bet most will be used for a company truck. Nobody wants a V6 in fullsize truck except for the Ecoboost. I would not buy a F-150 with a 3.7 even if if had a 10 speed.

hmmmm, and I hear ford brag all day long about how their sixes outperform the competitions eights.....
Ford "borrowed" that ecoboost concept (to put it nicely). I bet youll see similar engines out there soon. Too bad for us, they're more complicated and make the dealer service departments more like a drive through bank than a repair shop for the dealers....

I know there's no brand bashing allowed here so we try to keep it to the facts, there's no other way to say it so I guess the only thing to say is GM and Chrysler build and use some GREAT engines in their trucks!!! lol

 

[94BULLITT]

Dont even get them started on max power output RPM's. Then their diesels really get out performed by the other brands.....
My former 6L's max torque is developed at a lot higher rpm than my one year older dmax. lol
No wonder they get worse fuel mileage....
My current 6.4L aint much better.....

Wow 200rpm difference.

 

[Diamondpilot]

That's the beauty of the 8 speed. Makes an otherwise pretty mundane gas v-6 look a lot better. The efficiency of a Diesel engine is magnified when you give is a close ratio, efficient shifting transmission with an extra gear or two over the competition.
GM showed up Ford on speed and towing tests the same way. Back a few years ago when Ford has all their glossy brochures and keyboard racers touting their new 400+ HP scorpio diesel, GM was still able to out pull and outrace the new Ford with a 390hp older dmax. It's also how GM was able to build a consistently faster truck than ford since the advent of the dmax over 10 years ago. GM always had the more efficient transmission with better tc lockup and more locked up gears than ford.
Buddy of mine that owns a local transmission shop for over 30 years and he would show me bench top comparisons of internal parts on opened up GM & ford transmissions since the mid 90's. The consistent theme was GM was always bigger, stronger, more efficient and most of all, less often repaired in the transmission shop. The Allison was an unbelievable leap forward over anything Ford had and forced ford to finally start building something more than a 4 speed car transmission with a bigger torque converter on the front of it. I rebuilt a bunch of them e4ods and 4r100's. Never rebuilt an Allison. Torqshift was big improvement but probably never would have been built util ford was forced to step up to the plate and do it.
Now I don't know how that compares to a "BIL" or neighbor story because I know it's just a guy who's never been on the internet with thousands of rah rah ford posts. He just owned a transmission shop and repaired thousands of transmissions for over 30 years, but I thought I'd share my personal experience.
Transmissions make a HUGE difference in the performance of the engine it is mated to. I would much rather have a lower powered diesel with a 6-8 speed than a more powerful diesel with a 5-6 speed. Fuel efficiency and towing performance is better. That's what these trucks are made for.

I guess your brand loyalty makes it impossible for you to believe the Allison 1000 is not all its cracked up to be. The Torque Shift continually takes the best tranny award.

The Allison is just a marketing ploy for the blind masses. 06 and later with the 6 speed are much better but the C1, 2, 3 clutch issues and cooler leaking shows they are not the end all of trannys. At $3500 for repair or more for a rebuilt unit its also about the most expensive unit to work on.

My friend Raleigh is going through this right now. Never towed more then 7,000# travel trailer twice a year to his parking spot at a camp ground. His 05 can not move under its own power but if rolling it will go if you feather the throttle. He was quoted $3500 to $4000 by three shops to rebuild. Its only got 136,000 miles as a highway queen.
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/chevy/1003dp_allison_1000_transmission/viewall.html

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

I don't believe he was really comparing it to the dodge he was just saying. You are way too close minded. If he said the dodge out towed the ecoboost you would have been all over that.

The fiat or is that phiat v6 with 8 speed is not comparable to the ecoboost. Look how much better the ecoboost did in the towing competiton that you posted.

Yep. The Fiat Dodge did ok pulling it own weight, I will give them that. The Ford was pulling 180% its own weight and still topped it. Lol

Put a 8 speed behind the Eco and thst Fiat Dodge will be so far behind they will think they are in the lead. Lol

Chris

 

[94BULLITT]

Yep. The Fiat Dodge did ok pulling it own weight, I will give them that. The Ford was pulling 180% its own weight and still topped it. Lol

Put a 8 speed behind the Eco and thst Fiat Dodge will be so far behind they will think they are in the lead. Lol

Chris

Amazingly the 8 speed does not get better mileage than the Ford in the city, maybe too much gear changing? Doesn't the Pentastar have start/ stop on some models?

Ford 3.7 17 city 23 highway
Ram 3.6 17 city 25 highway

The Ram also has active grille shutters and air suspension so is the 8 speed improving MPGs? I guess when you are a Ram truck guy you nothing to get excited over but the base V6:confused3:

 

[Hay Dude]

I guess your brand loyalty makes it impossible for you to believe the Allison 1000 is not all its cracked up to be. The Torque Shift continually takes the best tranny award.

The Allison is just a marketing ploy for the blind masses. 06 and later with the 6 speed are much better but the C1, 2, 3 clutch issues and cooler leaking shows they are not the end all of trannys. At $3500 for repair or more for a rebuilt unit its also about the most expensive unit to work on.

My friend Raleigh is going through this right now. Never towed more then 7,000# travel trailer twice a year to his parking spot at a camp ground. His 05 can not move under its own power but if rolling it will go if you feather the throttle. He was quoted $3500 to $4000 by three shops to rebuild. Its only got 136,000 miles as a highway queen.
Allison 1000 Transmission - GM Diesel Trucks - Diesel Power Magazine

Chris

Yet another in the thousands of "my friend/neighbor/BIL" stories.....

 

[Diamondpilot]

Yet another in the thousands of "my friend/neighbor/BIL" stories.....

That's how things work in my world. See I have friends and loan out my equipment when the stuff they have fails.

Chris

 

[jejeosborne]

You really think this 8 speed transmission is worth 8 years of development over what Ford currently offers? Wow, little faith in your product huh?

Wasn't it you that said the 8 speed transmission would only be a bandaid for an engine with a poor torque curve? Now your precious Ecoboost would benefit from one?

How did you derive this 8 years development case? The point is just as you mentioned, comparing two vehicles with differing technology. Who cares if it takes 1 year or 30 years. Btw ram didn't spend any time in developing any of that powertrain. Bought from other vendors.

It wasn't me who said anything about a bandaid. Please find that post and quote it. What I said was that an eight speed will improve the performance of an engine which produces its peak torque at a high rpms. That makes sense doesn't it?

Again, from a post earlier that got deleted, great transmission. The best gas combo one could have in a gas pickup would be an ecoboost with this transmission.

I would be scared to buy a ram until the labor disputes are resolved. I doubt the employees are putting forth their best effort at this time.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130301/AUTO0101/303010342
I originally though being made in Mexico was a bad thing but it may go back if people don't want to work.

 

[Dmace]

How did you derive this 8 years development case?

Your the one who said comparing the new RAM transmission and Ford transmission is like comparing a new truck to one from 8 years ago. You really think Ford is that far behind? :laughing:

Comparing a new 8-speed transmission to a 6-speed is similar to comparing an truck from 8 years ago.

Btw ram didn't spend any time in developing any of that powertrain. Bought from other vendors.

True, I wish RAM could develop their own products like Ford...
Oh wait a minute, isn't Ford currently getting sued for stealing technology from other companies...?
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/04/ford-staring-down-f-150-fuel-injection-patent-lawsuit/

What I said was that an eight speed will improve the performance of an engine which produces its peak torque at a high rpms. That makes sense doesn't it?

Not exactly.
An 8 speed transmission will help an engine stay in it's torque curve but it doesn't matter if that engine produces it's peak torque at high or low rpms. You seem to think only engines producing torque at high rpms will benefit from more gears which is wrong. ANY engine will benefit from a transmission that allows it to stay in it's peak power/efficiency range.

The best gas combo one could have in a gas pickup would be an ecoboost with this transmission.

You said this transmission would help the Ecoboost, so are you saying the Ecoboost "produces its peak torque at a high rpms"...? You keep contradicting yourself so much, it's hard to keep up.

I would be scared to buy a ram until the labor disputes are resolved. I doubt the employees are putting forth their best effort at this time.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130301/AUTO0101/303010342
I originally though being made in Mexico was a bad thing but it may go back if people don't want to work.

If your scared about whining UAW babies that are crying because a company is giving them more hours instead of layoffs like most companies then you should not buy ANY vehicles. They're all built by the same whiners.

You and DP like to put down Chrysler for Mexico built vehicles but you also don't understand trade tariffs which will allow auto manufacturers more freedom to sell in North AND South America by building in Mexico vs USA. Blame Congress not the auto companies.
Little statistic for you guys too.
Ford - 55 percent of parts made in the U.S. or Canada. More than 15 percent of its parts come from Mexico.
Chrysler - 61 percent of the components it uses for its Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep lines come from the U.S., while about 20 percent come from Mexico and Latin America, about 10 percent from Canada and just under 10 percent from the rest of the world.
autos.aol.com/article/is-your-car-really-american/

So Chrysler has 71% of its parts from US and Canada vs Ford at 55%...

Lastly, I agree this sounds like a great transmission but only time will tell. Believe it or not, I wasn't looking for a Ford vs GM vs Chrysler debate but wanted to show just how well this new combo is performing. The fact that they compare it to an Ecoboost was purely coincidence due to recent testing.
This tranmission strapped to the HEMI or V6 diesel will be a very good combo!

 

[jejeosborne]

Not exactly.
An 8 speed transmission will help an engine stay in it's torque curve but it doesn't matter if that engine produces it's peak torque at high or low rpms. You seem to think only engines producing torque at high rpms will benefit from more gears which is wrong. ANY engine will benefit from a transmission that allows it to stay in it's peak power/efficiency range.

You said this transmission would help the Ecoboost, so are you saying the Ecoboost "produces its peak torque at a high rpms"...? You keep contradicting yourself so much, it's hard to keep up.

It is hard to keep up? Really? I said the same thing you did in different words. The 8 speed will help any engine stay in the sweet spot of the torque curve but benefit an engine which produces peak torque at a high rpm more. Not rocket science here. Why would you assume I meant the ecoboost makes peak torque at high rpms? I have posted the torque curves in the past showing the peak torque at 2500 rpms.

If your scared about whining UAW babies that are crying because a company is giving them more hours instead of layoffs like most companies then you should not buy ANY vehicles. They're all built by the same whiners.

You and DP like to put down Chrysler for Mexico

Nope, I now see why they choose to use Mexican labor. I agree whining babies.

Realize we are just playing the game you wanted with this thread. It is funny how everyone is now using the ecoboost the standard to compare. Put an ecoboost engine in that same truck with that transmission and see what it will do. I would buy that.

Also, you were wrong. You can purchase a ecoboost for less than $30,000. Even an extended cab.

 

[jagyzf]

True, I wish RAM could develop their own products like Ford...
Oh wait a minute, isn't Ford currently getting sued for stealing technology from other companies...?
Ford staring down F-150 fuel-injection patent lawsuit

Things like this happen all the time. That is being sued for things you may or may not have created or someone did. Caterpillar about 6-7 years ago was sued and had to prove the tech they were using had been developed before the patent holder claimed.

My company was involved in a case similar. We had bought a machine that had been produced for 30-35 years.Yet some idiot patented parts of the machine 3-4 years prior and the application of the machine and then tried to sue us for using "his patented tech". In the end he lost because there were actually several companies producing this type of machinery for this process and all of them went back 30 years plus.

I also remember reading about Ford playing with direct injection and turbos for several years and to this day is testing different applications. This would include a dual tank system that would inject E85 and regular gas to allow higher pressure in the engine. All of these things go back a ways, and the story points out the F-150. Yet several other models were made years before the Ecoboost was put in the F150.

Not saying Ford didn't steel it, but until the case is over none of us here know for sure.

 

[jagyzf]

I don't think this 8 speed is all that new either. ZF has been selling versions of this for several years. BMW has been using it, I read Volkswagon is looking at it, Land Rover I have read is using it. So it might be in several auto lines soon. ZF was selling transmissions to both Ford and Chevy for heavy duty manuals (6 speed I think) so they might very well sell this to Ford and/or Chevy.

ZF’s 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - Tech Dept. - Car and Driver

I also read Land Rover is going to be using a 9 Speed ZF soon and that ZF thinks 9 is the limit for speeds.

 

[madmax12]

I don't think this 8 speed is all that new either. ZF has been selling versions of this for several years. BMW has been using it, I read Volkswagon is looking at it, Land Rover I have read is using it. So it might be in several auto lines soon. ZF was selling transmissions to both Ford and Chevy for heavy duty manuals (6 speed I think) so they might very well sell this to Ford and/or Chevy.

ZF’s 8-Speed Automatic Transmission - Tech Dept. - Car and Driver

I also read Land Rover is going to be using a 9 Speed ZF soon and that ZF thinks 9 is the limit for speeds.

Is the RAM engine/tranny combo the same as the charger? That was available last year.

 

[dodge man]

Is the RAM engine/tranny combo the same as the charger? That was available last year.

The engine is maybe similar, I'm pretty sure the transmission is totally different.

 

[Ford850]

Ford - 55 percent of parts made in the U.S. or Canada. More than 15 percent of its parts come from Mexico.
Chrysler - 61 percent of the components it uses for its Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep lines come from the U.S., while about 20 percent come from Mexico and Latin America, about 10 percent from Canada and just under 10 percent from the rest of the world.
autos.aol.com/article/is-your-car-really-american/

So Chrysler has 71% of its parts from US and Canada vs Ford at 55%...

Here's a fresher link for those stats, since yours is from 2010. The Cars.com American-Made Index - Cars.com
So Ford went up to 60% in 2011, and then up to 75% domestic content this last year. The F150 is in second place among all vehicles. The only other truck in the top ten is the Tundra at number 7.

 

[jejeosborne]

Here's a fresher link for those stats, since yours is from 2010. The Cars.com American-Made Index - Cars.com
So Ford went up to 60% in 2011, and then up to 75% domestic content this last year. The F150 is in second place among all vehicles. The only other truck in the top ten is the Tundra at number 7.

Quite a bit different than what was posted earlier. Thanks for the update.