Liquid Fertilizer application

[blueriver]

I am starting work on adding liquid fertilizer application by using injectors (I think) First I have to set up the tanks the manifolds, monitors on the planter and cultivator ... I've studied alot of information and feel I have gained enough information with the exception of the following ...

Some tell me they keep the hose about 1-2" above the ground and the liquid goes into the disk opener trench ... others say the hose is about 4-8 inches longer and drags behind the disc opener and then I'm told the hose needs to extend 1-2" into the ground ... anyone have a setup? Can you share your likes and dislikes?

I'm concerned ... either dragging or in the ground ... will it plug or does the actual pressure make it so it dosen't plug ?

This will be set up on 6 row equipment ... 30" rows.

 

[snowjoker]

What are you looking to do ? there is 2x2 starter, which is 2 inches over and 2 inches below the seedline will say approx 18 gallons per acre... popup, which actually dribbles on the seed as its getting planted, 3 gallons per acre.. This is how most planters with liquid are setup today.. From what everyone tells me at work. Where I am the liquid fertilizer blender guy.. You will need to filter this stuff multiple times. What are you planning on using ? Black Label, Reinforce-K, Nitrogen blend ? 11-37-0 or maybe 10-34-0 ?Better throw some Accomplish LM into the mix too. Its a huge seller now.

 

[muddstopper]

Are you injecting fertilizer at the same time as planting the seed and in the same rows as the seed, or are you side dressing with nitrogen. If appling the nitrogen with the seed, it is best not to allow the nitrogen and seed to come into direct contact, especially if the nitrogen source is Urea. Seed to urea contact in the soil can result in a 50% reduction in germination of the seed. It takes as little as 10lbs N per acre to see this type of decline. Side dressing at least 6in from the seed rows helps prevent the seed kill associated with urea application at time of planting.

 

[bulldogshotgun]

indeed if your planning on usng the same fertiliizer for while planting and cultivating you can't have it in the seed trench. 2" to 6" away is better. you can use a knife or coulter or both. the advantage to using a knife or other subsoil injection is that 28% will evaporate. it wiill also leech out if you inject it into fully saturated soils. the type of injection system is partly determined by your pump and metering sytem. the squeeze pump on a JD 7000 seriies can't meter accuratly with high pressures from deep knives. a john blue piston pump can, but you will need orfices. and the cheapest and easiest way to do that is using stream spray tips behind a coulter.

in short we need more information on what you are intending to accomplish, and what you have.

 

[blueriver]

I am putting in Milo ... I have been in touch with Wilmar mfg and Abner sales. I have the Redball monitor setup ... the Electric on/off valve and the check valve/orifices. I have mounted my 3 point spray rig (150 gallons) and will run the pto pump. The outlet side will have the on/off valve inline then run to the Monitors. This is on my 5100 grain drill where I will plug certain seed boxes so my rows will be 29" o.c. thus a 6 row setup ... from the monitor I will run the lines to the double disc opener next to the row ... my drill is 7" o.c. that will place the fertilize in the double disc openers 7" from the row. The check valve/orifice will mount just above the double disc and the final line will go to the ground between the openers.

I plan to do the same to the culitvator with the exception the injection knives will be placed in the center of the row to avoid root damage.

Any thoughts on the do's and don'ts of my plan will be greatly appreciated !!!

 

[kevin37b]

Sounds like you are on the right track . Up here they use a dedicated coulter and inject the starter . Have your openers got descent downpressure , may not matter if you drag a hose .

 

[blueriver]

Sounds like you are on the right track . Up here they use a dedicated coulter and inject the starter . Have your openers got descent downpressure , may not matter if you drag a hose .

I have the ground ripped and will disc just a day or so before I plant ... The drill is hydraulic and I have to use cylinder rings to keep it from going to deep .. I'll put the seed in about 1 to 1 and 1/2 " so that fertilizer will be in the same depth ... 7" over from the row.

Up there you are in the part of the world that does this alot ... I've read alot online and watched some pretty impressive video's ... my local farm store just has a "dumb" look to them when you ask about this stuff!!

 

[kevin37b]

Yetter MFG . makes alot of hardware for this application also . My SILno-tills corn and uses starter and swears by it . Other guys don't want tomess with it and have a floater blow it on , 28% . Sounds like you have a plan for getting started . You might think about a seperate toolbar with coulters and a hitch on it . Just thinking out loud .

 

[blueriver]

Yetter MFG . makes alot of hardware for this application also . My SILno-tills corn and uses starter and swears by it . Other guys don't want tomess with it and have a floater blow it on , 28% . Sounds like you have a plan for getting started . You might think about a seperate toolbar with coulters and a hitch on it . Just thinking out loud .

I have thought about the extra tool bar with coulters ... in fact I gained possesion of a tool bar with that in mind. I am also trying to limit the number of trips across the field. Thanks for the "Yetter MFG" I can google them.

 

[blueriver]

My first run yesterday afternoon on 25 acres ... First off I had my tank, pump and hoses on a seperate trailer ... well the dad gum hose flew out of the tank at about 3/4 full ... sprayed the 32-0-0 all over !!! Figured that out real quick and used a ratchet strap to hold that down.

Everything worked well from the tank to the double row openers ... 30 PSI, proper ground speed and I was rolling along ... that Red Ball Monitor sure takes the "guess" out of "Is the fertilize coming out?"

Problem ... the rolling double openers flung the fertilizer ... not bad ... however it seemed to cause "mud" around things. Much more than I cared for ... so now I need to adjust the discharge hose back some from the openers. I hard fastened a tube to the center of the openers and slid my hose into that ... I'm thinking back about 2" to get it away from the openers. Also the pack wheels accumulated some dirt on them ... anyway when I was done I drained the fertilizer out and only had about 4 gallons in a 5 gallon bucket so thats pretty close to the projected amount of fertilze per acre.

What you think? I'm thinking I should remove the pack wheels on the fertilizer row and I'm thinking the hose needs to be a soft hose that drags in the opener furrow .. perhaps those old ring chains to close the furrow? Or just leave it? If I leave it will I get to much evaporation?

The big quess was adjusting the seed openers for the amount of seed in the row/per acre ... kinda a challenge. I had the unit in the shed on concrete with a tarp down and choose a setting drive forward look at the seed spacing and redo this step until I was comfortable ... I don't know ... had plenty of seed left in the seed box. Was shooting for 6-8 lbs to the acre. I guess I'll know how that went when the Milo comes up !!!!

Have 15 acres left to plant ... will be making the adjustments and see how that goes and then adapt the system to the cultivator.

 

[pjbci]

I would do away with the press wheels. Just leave it open. You wont lose hardly any of your N-sol to evaporation. We used two rigs to apply iiquid fert. One with knife openers for conventional tillage applications and another that just drags the hoses on the ground in no-till conditiins.

 

[blueriver]

I would do away with the press wheels. Just leave it open. You wont lose hardly any of your N-sol to evaporation. We used two rigs to apply iiquid fert. One with knife openers for conventional tillage applications and another that just drags the hoses on the ground in no-till conditiins.

Thanks for the advise. What brand are your knife openers?

 

[pjbci]

Atermarket from shoup manufacturing. The are the swept back type that dont penetrate very deep.

 

[blueriver]

Atermarket from shoup manufacturing. The are the swept back type that dont penetrate very deep.

Thanks for the info ... they have a nice web site. So, the swept back type basicly cuts its own trench for the fertilize

 

[pjbci]

Yes but your opener design should work much better. Weeds and roots have a tendency to build up on a knife opener and after enough builds up you will start knocking down crops in a sidedress application. Stick with what you have, just dont worry about evaporation losses. N-sol is very stable with low volitility.

 

[blueriver]

Yes but your opener design should work much better. Weeds and roots have a tendency to build up on a knife opener and after enough builds up you will start knocking down crops in a sidedress application. Stick with what you have, just dont worry about evaporation losses. N-sol is very stable with low volitility.

I was thinking when I adapt my system to the cultivator about using the swept back type ... however a little study last night I believe a drag hose will work well on the cultivator.

 

[kevin37b]

Don't worry about evaporization . They blow it on with floaters up here and plant .I do not understand the double openers .You need single coulter and a knife , or hose to drop it . Okay you are using a drill , forgot that .

 

[OldMcDonald]

blueriver, I admire somebody who does all the research, makes up his own mind on what suits him, and then applies his knowledge and expertise in an experiment. I hope it works for you. I use liquid fertilisers only as an extra feed to growing plants - foliar application. I took a lot of convinving before I would even try it, but the general consensus is that about 85% of foliar feeds are absorbed by the plants.

For feeding the soil (which obviously means feeding at least the next crop, and usually later ones too) I still find that granular fertilisers are easier applied. It is a very quick operation and I do it prior to my last deep cultivation before levelling off the seed bed.

I like the fertiliser to be well spread through the soil profile and my reasoning for this is that fertiliser applied and incorporated at a shallow depth when seeding just encourages shallow rooting - all the feed is in the top 3" or 4". Why would the plant want to put out deeper roots? I want my plants to search for deeper nutrients. I want them to open up several feet of depth for subsequent crops. I want to increase the depth of my soil. Just a personal opinion and I would not want to argue the niceties, but it has worked for me in a few different countries.

 

[blueriver]

blueriver, I admire somebody who does all the research, makes up his own mind on what suits him, and then applies his knowledge and expertise in an experiment. I hope it works for you. I use liquid fertilisers only as an extra feed to growing plants - foliar application. I took a lot of convinving before I would even try it, but the general consensus is that about 85% of foliar feeds are absorbed by the plants.

For feeding the soil (which obviously means feeding at least the next crop, and usually later ones too) I still find that granular fertilisers are easier applied. It is a very quick operation and I do it prior to my last deep cultivation before levelling off the seed bed.

I like the fertiliser to be well spread through the soil profile and my reasoning for this is that fertiliser applied and incorporated at a shallow depth when seeding just encourages shallow rooting - all the feed is in the top 3" or 4". Why would the plant want to put out deeper roots? I want my plants to search for deeper nutrients. I want them to open up several feet of depth for subsequent crops. I want to increase the depth of my soil. Just a personal opinion and I would not want to argue the niceties, but it has worked for me in a few different countries.

Thank you sir ... I incorporated my Phosphourus and Potassium into the ground. I choose the side dressing of Nitrogen because I wanted to reduce volatilization of urea and protect the crop from foliar damage.

My soil test calls for 418 lbs to the acre of Nitrogen ... so my plan is to apply 150 at planting, 150 at the 1st cultivation and 150 at lay by ... time will tell.

 

[pjbci]

418# of actual nitrogen! I gotta ask what are you planting?