8n will fire but not start??

[Johnp33]

If it cranks with the starter but will not fire once the key is off the start position, then I would check the resistor. I do timing using a dial guage to be sure the marks are correct, also you have to be sure the firing order is not 180 degrees out. With the Piston at TDC you can install a compression tester and add compressed air, and be sure it is on the right stroke. I have no experience on this tractor but have worked on a lot of old stuff to know you have to check everything. It is usually the simple things that you know is OK that is the problem. Things like cleaning the power and especially the ground cables and connection.
Just a thought!

 

[Soundguy]

Timing is timing but why will it not start.

there's so little timing adjustment on a front mount anyway.. that if the dizzy came off a running tractor.. it should be running when you put it back on.. even if you didn't static time it AND the breaker point gap changed a bit.

( might not run optimum.. but it should run.. )

thus.. I think the problem will be found elsewhere..

 

[Soundguy]

from oem.. no key-turn to start on this machine.


I wish all the 'helpers' on this thread would actually familiarize themselves with the machine at hand and quit guessing at the particulars....

If it cranks with the starter but will not fire once the key is off the start position, then I would check the resistor. I do timing using a dial guage to be sure the marks are correct, also you have to be sure the firing order is not 180 degrees out. With the Piston at TDC you can install a compression tester and add compressed air, and be sure it is on the right stroke. I have no experience on this tractor but have worked on a lot of old stuff to know you have to check everything. It is usually the simple things that you know is OK that is the problem. Things like cleaning the power and especially the ground cables and connection.
Just a thought!

 

[parispete]

I got no hair left and I broke a nail!! I took out the distributor and looked up the page the Soundguy sent a picture of about setting the points. I have done everything you guys have suggested and today I put the starter fluid in. Not a peep. I have checked those wires and they are golden. I made a jig out of plexiglass. The top of the shaft or high part is not dead center at 1/4" it is more like 5/16 or maybe 11/16. What I am saying is that if I set the points at .015 at 1/4" like the picture when I rurn the shaft it gets wider??

I did locate a set of fairly nice used wheels and have a new tire.

I did not get a get nothing. I think I will check for the spark tomorrow when the sun is up and see what that is doing. It actually sounded worse today than it did before I messed with it this time. I will keep you all posted.

Working out in this cold is not good but I built a tent frame and put a tarp over the tractor and heat it up before I get in it. New barn in 18 months can't wait.

 

[94BULLITT]

The top of the shaft or high part is not dead center at 1/4" it is more like 5/16 or maybe 11/16. What I am saying is that if I set the points at .015 at 1/4" like the picture when I rurn the shaft it gets wider??

If the timing is off turn the screw on the side to of the dizzy to adjust it.The .015" on the points is at max opening if it gets wider when you turn it you need to adjust the points. You adjust the points on the high side of the cam.

 

[Egon]

After all the cranking you have done I'd suggest pulling the plugs, dropping some motor oil in the cylinders an crank it over a few times with the plugs out.

There are inexpensive spark testers that you just hold on the wire. They are a little more comfortable than the previous method you tried.:thumbsup:

I also doubt timing is the root problem.

 

[kencunningham]

When you pull the plugs after trying to crank it, are they wet?

 

[Soundguy]

make sure you turn the dizzy shaft the correct way as well..

 

[Johnp33]

from oem.. no key-turn to start on this machine.


I wish all the 'helpers' on this thread would actually familiarize themselves with the machine at hand and quit guessing at the particulars....

The reason I made the suggestions was it seamed your advise was either being ignored or above his ability, when I get into a problem that I can not figure out I go back to basics.
With you being perfect I will never give advise on anything you are involved with.

 

[parispete]

The plugs were wet when I pulled them yesterday. I know one was dry. The #1 plug was almost dripping so I asked my wife what it smelled like?? My sense of smell is not good and not ggod at all if I have been in the shop working (wood dust over the years) so I ask my wife and she said it smelled like gas??

I do not get it?? The thing was running sluggish and I put my hands on it and it turns to ca-ca?

It is cold as #@%* today and no outside. I do have the tractor battery on a charge and was wondering if it could be the switch? Not the one by the gear stick but the toggle, I do not have a key I have a toggle that I turn on and off. It did get spark from the plug test the other day. The cold does not help this 6 volt system but for now I wanted to get a 12 volt down the road. My brother is thinking he wants to just completely take one apart and put it back together?? I am changing my number the day he brings the tractor home. Oh he has not bought one yet and wants one he has to load on a truck and haul home.

I want to thank everyone for the support and we will get through this. Thanks guys!!

 

[Soundguy]

The reason I made the suggestions was it seamed your advise was either being ignored or above his ability, when I get into a problem that I can not figure out I go back to basics.
With you being perfect I will never give advise on anything you are involved with.

I'd settle for you just not giving advice that doesn't apply.

which in my experience, can further bumfuzzle someone who already has a problem.

you'r call either way.

Nobody's perfect. I just happen to be familiar with the machine he's working on. something 3/4's of the other helpers here in this thread apparently can't also say.

soundguy

 

[GPintheMitten]

I still have my doubts that you have the plug wires connected right. I recommend you triple check.

Take a look at this picture that I copied off of Yesterday's Tractor site that was already mentioned. The pic comes from the link that one of the other guys posted.

Then, like Carl said, follow the wires to see if they go to 1,2,3,4 from front to rear on the engine block.

Also, I would check for a good spark on each of the 4 plugs.

Too bad one of us couldn't get our hands on your tractor, I don't think it would take long. Something very basic is wrong, I think. Good luck.

"Starting at the the radiator on the head cover I marked the pistons 1, 2, 4, 3." This could be the problem. The order of pistons in the motor are 1, 2, 3, 4 staring at the front of the tractor moving toward the rear. The firing order is 1, 2, 4, 3. The order the wires need to be on the distributor cap is 1, 2, 4, 3 the way the rotor spins. Could you have wires 3 and 4 be mixed up between the distributor cap and the motor?

 

[Soundguy]

Too bad one of us couldn't get our hands on your tractor, I don't think it would take long. Something very basic is wrong, I think. Good luck.

i agree. it's probably a small, overlooked, important issue.

 

[94BULLITT]

The plugs were wet when I pulled them yesterday. I know one was dry. The #1 plug was almost dripping so I asked my wife what it smelled like?? My sense of smell is not good and not ggod at all if I have been in the shop working (wood dust over the years) so I ask my wife and she said it smelled like gas??

I do not get it?? The thing was running sluggish and I put my hands on it and it turns to ca-ca?

It is cold as #@%* today and no outside. I do have the tractor battery on a charge and was wondering if it could be the switch? Not the one by the gear stick but the toggle, I do not have a key I have a toggle that I turn on and off. It did get spark from the plug test the other day. The cold does not help this 6 volt system but for now I wanted to get a 12 volt down the road. My brother is thinking he wants to just completely take one apart and put it back together?? I am changing my number the day he brings the tractor home. Oh he has not bought one yet and wants one he has to load on a truck and haul home.

I want to thank everyone for the support and we will get through this. Thanks guys!!

If you had spark and shocked yourself the switch is working.

Can you give us a update on where you are now?

1. Are the properly points adjusted to .015"?
2. Do you have it timed right?

If no to 1 and 2 there is no point in going any farther until that is right.

3.If yes to 1 and 2 did you clean the plugs with some gum cutter, and did you turn the motor over with the plugs out?

 

[8n4jr]

I had trouble with tisco points so much that I got on a forum and ended up at an auto parts store and bought blue streak points and condensor and then it ran great. Not sure if this will help you by I adjusted and re adjusted the tisco points and it still wouldn't run, when I did get it to go it died in the road and had to tow it back.

Good Luck

Jim

 

[Soundguy]

tisco points are the cheapest and worst points you can buy.

 

[Soundguy]

here's a list of front mount ignition parts:

Ford 9-2-8n Front mount distribuitor ignition service:

gap points to .015

Front Mount distributor...
Points:
NAPA #CS35
Standard Ignition Blue Streak #FD-6769X (Premium)
Condensor:
NAPA #FA200
Standard Ignition #FD-71
Rotor:
NAPA #FA300
Standard Ignition #FD-104
Distributor Cap:
NAPA #FA350
Standard Ignition #FD-126



and oil filters for all 9-2-8n with oe cartridge setup.

Ford Part Number: CPN 6371B 9N-18649, 9N-6714, 9N-2731
Fram C3, C3-P
NAPA Gold 1010
Motorcraft FL 144
Balidwin P40
Big A 92010
Bosch 72127
Carquest 85010
Fleetguard LF574
Wix 51010
Purolater L20110 or L20701
Fleetrite LFR-8574
Texaco HSO-100
Unocal OF 1010
White 10575
Hastings Mighty M3LF-130
Luber-Finer P3

 

[parispete]

The points are set at .015 at 1/4" as the diagram fig FO83 on page 58 of the I&T Shop Manual.

From the picture that GPintheMitten has posted the #1 wire goes to the from of the motor just behind the radiator, #2 wire goes behind that one, then the #3 wire goes all the way to the back of the engine on the last cylinder, and the last one #4 is located on the 3rd cylinder back for the radiator. That is where the wires have been since the second day of this thread.

I did wipe the plugs off, but did not use gum cleaner because they are new and have never started this engine.

For clairity, I bought all my parts from tractorpartsexpress because I saved on shipping. (Is this not a good place to get parts?)

At the present, I am trying to get out to try to start it with a full battery charge and I guess that I will pull all the plugs to see if they are firing if it continues to not start.

As of today I have checked for spark. WOW! I had to re-set the points and pulled the plugs to spray in starter fluid, wiped the plugs off and rechecked the gap and they are at .025-.026. I put the plugs back in and tried to start it and it did not fire but it had a weak battery. I think I am going to have to see about the screw on the side of the Distributor because I do not think that the gap on the points are set dead center on the high side of the shaft??

Question-if the gap is set at the right setting .015 at 1/4" as the diagram in the Shop Manual and it is before dead center of the hump, which will make the points open more at dead center then which way do I need to turn the screw, clockwise or counter clockwise??

Ok, I just tried to start it and it did not start and the engine is dragging from the cold I guess. So as it stands right now, I have to recheck the points and see if all the plugs are firing which I will see if they are firing before I pull and check the points.

I am thinking that I might take it to a friends house and see if he will let me put it in his garage with a heater and see what the deal is. I can work on it there out of the wind. I do not mind the cold that bad just the wind.

I build Windsor Chairs and some of the smaller 18th century furniture in my two care garage. The garage was being cleaned and gone through to make room for my new tablesaw and that is why I took advantage of the space to put all the new components and parts on the tractor. I have put the new saw in place and have 2 chairs being finished and one on the bench. I put this in there in case anyone was wondering why I don't pull it back in the garage.

If anyone wants to see what I got for the tune up- tractorpartsexpress - Tune up Kit Part # 309786 and the wires are Part # CPN12259 and the 6 volt coil # 9N12024.

While we are talking about parts, where can I get a good quality carb rebuild kit and a float??

Ok talk to you all soon. Oh I did put new fuel in it and let it run through the line to the carb.

 

[parispete]

Soundguy, where do I get those parts at NAPA? Just read your post. Any of the parts I bought worth anything? I have always thought parts were parts?? I guess that things have changed seeing import everything from everyone else and don't make our own stuff anymore. Shame for the greatest county on earth?

Thanks

 

[parispete]

I have read all the post from everyone and thought it was a spell check thing so all at once everyone tell me what a dizzy is? I was under the impression that my ex-wife was dizzy?? Just kidding.