Need help with Grapple 101...

[PapaPerk]

Decent set of QA pallet forks costs $500-600 and is marginal for brush. Decent lightweight 48" grapple costs $900 and is the ideal tool for brush removal. Pallets are great for what they are designed for which ain't brush. Sure they can lift brush and if you balance everything just right and curl it will stay in place unless you hit bumps but pallet forks clearly cannot handle large brush piles which need to be clamped in position to travel. Pallet forks might well be fine for moving logs in a yard but again, if you drive over uneven or bumpy ground you are going to want to secure those logs with the upper grapple arm. I've seen pallet forks married to a grapple arm and that would work much better but then you have about the same cost as a regular grapple. Using the human hand as an analogous device, imagine piling objects onto your fingers and palm and carrying those around like a waiter carries plates. It works if you maintain perfect balance. Now imagine the same load in your hand but hold it in place with your thumb. Much better (which is one reason we have thumbs). You can also reverse your hand and pickup objects with your palm down so long as you use your thumb. That is what a grapple can do, either scoop (palm up) and clamp or "finger/thumb" pinch grasp objects. Forks are limited to straight open palm type lifting. Great for plates (and pallets), not so good for irregular or loose objects.

I fully understand the mechanics of grapples... Trust me.

I'll have to find some pics of my inadequate pallet forks moving brush piles.

 

[Missouri Pioneer]

I had a small 2WD Kubota B7200 in the past and found it to be very limited in what it could do. When considering the purchase a couple of years ago for a tractor for the (new) farm, a friend recommended that I not buy anything less than 50 hp. I followed his advice and am very glad I did.

Leave the cab tractor outdoors until you can afford a barn. We do. Don't make an expensive mistake. My .02.

 

[k0ua]

Decent set of QA pallet forks costs $500-600 and is marginal for brush. Decent lightweight 48" grapple costs $900 and is the ideal tool for brush removal. Pallets are great for what they are designed for which ain't brush. Sure they can lift brush and if you balance everything just right and curl it will stay in place unless you hit bumps but pallet forks clearly cannot handle large brush piles which need to be clamped in position to travel. Pallet forks might well be fine for moving logs in a yard but again, if you drive over uneven or bumpy ground you are going to want to secure those logs with the upper grapple arm. I've seen pallet forks married to a grapple arm and that would work much better but then you have about the same cost as a regular grapple. Using the human hand as an analogous device, imagine piling objects onto your fingers and palm and carrying those around like a waiter carries plates. It works if you maintain perfect balance. Now imagine the same load in your hand but hold it in place with your thumb. Much better (which is one reason we have thumbs). You can also reverse your hand and pickup objects with your palm down so long as you use your thumb. That is what a grapple can do, either scoop (palm up) and clamp or "finger/thumb" pinch grasp objects. Forks are limited to straight open palm type lifting. Great for plates (and pallets), not so good for irregular or loose objects.

He is right of course.. BUT I have moved a lot of brush with my QA Pallet forks. Just enough brush to ALMOST make me spring for a Grapple, and I probably will at some time. But my point is you can get by with a set of pallet forks, and yes they are about half the price of a grapple, and not near as good for moving brush, but they excel at moving pallets And I have moved some brush piles so big I could not see around them. Yes on most of them I had to get off and stack the brush all one way. Sometimes you can get under a pile and just pick it up with the forks without getting off and stacking. So bottom line.. yes the grapple is best, but you can still do a lot with forks. It is like a lot of things, you can "make do" and "get by" with a lot of things that are not ideal but will work.

James K0UA

 

[MtnViewRanch]

The other cost for a grapple that has not been brought up dollar wise is the additional cost of the remote to operate the grapple. Don't get me wrong, a grapple IS THE WAY TO GO, but it is going to cost a lot more money.

 

[IslandTractor]

I fully understand the mechanics of grapples... Trust me.

I'll have to find some pics of my inadequate pallet forks moving brush piles.

The description was not for you but rather for the OP.

 

[swick1]

1026r is the smallest I've seen. I think a 4000 series is in order for you. It's still small but can do a lot of work based on the one I got to run.

 

[dstig1]

I used forks at first to move brush. They work, but the best way to do it is to manually pile brush on them, or it all falls off if you try to scoop it. Logs can be done too, but you need to get them perfectly balanced if they are long, and if you hit a bump or tilt the tractor slightly, they fall off and you have to start again. When I got the grapple, my clearing efficiency went up by 10x. Plus you can also move firewood and firewood rounds with the grapple, and you can't with forks (not without adding something on). You stay in the seat a lot more with the grapple than the forks, so you get a lot more done in the same time. My grapple has almost been the only attachment I have used in the past 2 years since I got it. The only exceptions are the bucket for dirt/gravel and the forks for an occasional pallet or other lifting task and moving rocks for my retaining wall.

Cost is an issue, as noted. A grapple will set you back closer to $2k by the time you do the 3rd function plumbing and buy the grapple itself. It can come in cheaper, depending on how your tractor is set up, but there are significant additional costs there beyond just buying the grapple. Forks run about $600-700 around here for something decent. In either case, you really want your tractor to have the SSQA on the FEL (Skid Steer Quick Attach on the Front End Loader). Which brings up another point - you MUST get a loader for the things you are discussing. You can get by without a grapple, for sure, but it is such a huge efficiency boost, you won't know how you managed without it.

For that size acreage, as everyone has noted the BX is way too small. In a Kubota, a B may work but could still be on the small side. I have the smallest Grand L (3130) and wish I had one with a bigger engine for my 10 acres of woods. I would say you are in L/Grand L or even the larger MX or M series range for your size land. Those are only Kubotas as I don't really know the other brands, but that is the size range I would look at, no matter the brand, IMHO.

 

[buck12]

The other cost for a grapple that has not been brought up dollar wise is the additional cost of the remote to operate the grapple. Don't get me wrong, a grapple IS THE WAY TO GO, but it is going to cost a lot more money.

In my case the hydraulics to operate the grapple were more than the grapple. My grapple has been by far best addition to my tractor.

 

[buck12]

I used forks at first to move brush. They work, but the best way to do it is to manually pile brush on them, or it all falls off if you try to scoop it. Logs can be done too, but you need to get them perfectly balanced if they are long, and if you hit a bump or tilt the tractor slightly, they fall off and you have to start again. When I got the grapple, my clearing efficiency went up by 10x. Plus you can also move firewood and firewood rounds with the grapple, and you can't with forks (not without adding something on). You stay in the seat a lot more with the grapple than the forks, so you get a lot more done in the same time. My grapple has almost been the only attachment I have used in the past 2 years since I got it. The only exceptions are the bucket for dirt/gravel and the forks for an occasional pallet or other lifting task and moving rocks for my retaining wall.

Cost is an issue, as noted. A grapple will set you back closer to $2k by the time you do the 3rd function plumbing and buy the grapple itself. It can come in cheaper, depending on how your tractor is set up, but there are significant additional costs there beyond just buying the grapple. Forks run about $600-700 around here for something decent. In either case, you really want your tractor to have the SSQA on the FEL (Skid Steer Quick Attach on the Front End Loader). Which brings up another point - you MUST get a loader for the things you are discussing. You can get by without a grapple, for sure, but it is such a huge efficiency boost, you won't know how you managed without it.

For that size acreage, as everyone has noted the BX is way too small. In a Kubota, a B may work but could still be on the small side. I have the smallest Grand L (3130) and wish I had one with a bigger engine for my 10 acres of woods. I would say you are in L/Grand L or even the larger MX or M series range for your size land. Those are only Kubotas as I don't really know the other brands, but that is the size range I would look at, no matter the brand, IMHO.

You are right in that a quick attach would be nice. I bought a pin on grapple in January and have only taken the grapple off twice. So if the original poster buys a tractor with pin on bucket his tasks will determine if he requires the quick attach system. Again I would love a quick attach FEL but my primary task is to reclaim an over grown jungle so I make do with the pin on setup.

 

[IslandTractor]

In my case the hydraulics to operate the grapple were more than the grapple. My grapple has been by far best addition to my tractor.

There are many threads on TBN describing the various options for setting up hydraulics to control the grapple. Depending on choices and how the tractor is set up originally by the dealer, it can cost as little as $150 for hoses and fittings to run controls off the rear remotes. If the tractor doesn't already have at least one set of rear remotes then add $350-600 for a kit to install yourself in an afternoon with your wrenches or add a couple of hours labor for the dealer to do it. Alternatively, if you choose a diverter valve ($600 plus 3hrs) or electric over hydraulic ($800 plus 3 hrs) the added controls are more bucks. Dealers tend to push the latter two options but rear remotes work extremely well and many owners on TBN use them quite happily. A set or two of rear remotes is also useful for many other tasks and any "real" tractor should have them.

 

[MRSDOUGLAS]

Thanks for all the feedback. We are taking it slow for now and are still researching and learning. Stopped by the Deere shop and were looking at the three series and they did say by the time you add in the hydraulics you are looking at around 2k Gordon the grapple in total. It is not something we would be comfortable doing on our own so we will need a dealer install.

 

[IslandTractor]

Thanks for all the feedback. We are taking it slow for now and are still researching and learning. Stopped by the Deere shop and were looking at the three series and they did say by the time you add in the hydraulics you are looking at around 2k Gordon the grapple in total. It is not something we would be comfortable doing on our own so we will need a dealer install.

That is true only if 1) you use a dedicated third function valve or diverter valve, and 2) pay the dealer for installation. Instead, ask the dealer what the cost of a set of rear remotes would be.. You can buy the set of hoses and fittings needed to connect the rear remote to a grapple for $150. Rear remotes work just as well as dedicated FEL joystick mounted controllers and are a lot cheaper.

Also, don't buy a grapple from a tractor dealer. Buy direct. A light duty grapple can be had for about $1000 delivered.

 

[MRSDOUGLAS]

That is true only if 1) you use a dedicated third function valve or diverter valve, and 2) pay the dealer for installation. Instead, ask the dealer what the cost of a set of rear remotes would be.. You can buy the set of hoses and fittings needed to connect the rear remote to a grapple for $150. Rear remotes work just as well as dedicated FEL joystick mounted controllers and are a lot cheaper.

Also, don't buy a grapple from a tractor dealer. Buy direct. A light duty grapple can be had for about $1000 delivered.

Great info, thanks. Everything we read here gives us more questions to ask and will ultimately help us make the best choice.

 

[dstig1]

You can argue that the rear remotes work "just as well" as a 3rd function from a usability standpoint. I never take my hand off the joystick as I just flick the button with my thumb and use the grapple. Taking it off to grab the rear remote lever and going back would be awkward in my tractor, others may be easier. Is the difference worth the cost? That's an individual decision based on how your tractor is set up and your preference. But there is a difference.

 

[IslandTractor]

You can argue that the rear remotes work "just as well" as a 3rd function from a usability standpoint. I never take my hand off the joystick as I just flick the button with my thumb and use the grapple. Taking it off to grab the rear remote lever and going back would be awkward in my tractor, others may be easier. Is the difference worth the cost? That's an individual decision based on how your tractor is set up and your preference. But there is a difference.

True. Some people think standard transmissions in cars are a bother and others get used to it or prefer it. I've had a tractor with diverter valve and another where I used rear remotes. Both work fine and are equally functional IMO. My current tractor has the button on the joystick but if I had to do it again I'd probably go back to the rear remote so long as the position of the controller was convenient. Given the benefit of rear remotes for other purposes especially a hydraulic topping lift, it makes sense to get at least one set of remotes before investing in a diverter or electric over hydraulic set up. Then, if you have the rear remote then why not try it as a grapple control before investing another $800-1000 on having a dealer install a single purpose grapple control valve. If you have a rear remote you can control the grapple by investing $150 in hoses and fittings most of which can be reused with a diverter valve etc if you choose to go that route eventually. A lot of people on TBN seem to get sold on the diverter or electrohydraulic set up without ever really experiencing the simplicity of using rear remotes. Why pay extra for automatic tranny if you can do everything you need with 4 on the floor and put the extra money towards an extra implement instead. The cost of dealer installed electrohydaulic FEL mounted controller is about what the light duty grapple itself costs.

 

[Piston]

It must be more of a personal preference than anything. I've used the rear remote for the grapple before and decided I didn't like it one bit. I could have saved a lot of money by going with the rear remote option but I chose the 3 rd function valve as I like it that much more. I think either the 3rd function or selector switch is far superior to using the rear remote. I find it funny that some people spend close to 30k dollars on a tractor and worry about a relatively small amount of money to invest in convenient features.

 

[MRSDOUGLAS]

I find it funny that some people spend close to 30k dollars on a tractor and worry about a relatively small amount of money to invest in convenient features.

Ahh, but in this thread they are providing options to a complete newb who doesn't know any better what questions to ask. It is always nice to know what options to look at so we can form our own opinion.

 

[buck12]

That is true only if 1) you use a dedicated third function valve or diverter valve, and 2) pay the dealer for installation. Instead, ask the dealer what the cost of a set of rear remotes would be.. You can buy the set of hoses and fittings needed to connect the rear remote to a grapple for $150. Rear remotes work just as well as dedicated FEL joystick mounted controllers and are a lot cheaper.

Also, don't buy a grapple from a tractor dealer. Buy direct. A light duty grapple can be had for about $1000 delivered.

If you shop around on the grapple you can do better than $1000. My Wild Kat grapple was less than $700 delivered in January. I am sure there are better grapples but for the money but I couldn't find anything that met my needs for less.

 

[Piston]

Ahh, but in this thread they are providing options to a complete newb who doesn't know any better what questions to ask. It is always nice to know what options to look at so we can form our own opinion.

Good point

 

[IslandTractor]

It must be more of a personal preference than anything. I've used the rear remote for the grapple before and decided I didn't like it one bit. I could have saved a lot of money by going with the rear remote option but I chose the 3 rd function valve as I like it that much more. I think either the 3rd function or selector switch is far superior to using the rear remote. I find it funny that some people spend close to 30k dollars on a tractor and worry about a relatively small amount of money to invest in convenient features.

I agree it is a preference and budget thing. My point was that people investigating a grapple and grapple control should be aware that the simplest option (rear remotes) is a viable one and that quite a few people use it. It is less expensive and that is a factor for most of us, especially after we shell out big bucks for the tractor and want to maximize the number and capability of implements with the few pennies we have left in our pockets. I think my estimate of comparative cost is pretty close so with a savings of about $800 for using the rear remote, you can either get another implement or, if you don't already have a rear remote then the savings will pay for that installation which opens up all sorts of benefits beyond just controlling a grapple. For what it's worth, if I had a money tree I would make sure my tractor had several rear remotes and then would also buy an electrohydraulic true third function valve to control the joystick. If I was on a budget I would go with the rear remote. I own the third option, the diverter valve, and don't think it is worth the $600 or so that it costs (I got mine "free" with a 4n1 bucket I bought off ebay). I don't like the diverter that much because if I am working quickly I find I sometimes still have the button pressed (to divert flow to the grapple) when I want to curl/dump rather than open/close the grapple and therefore inadvertently open or close the grapple. Not an issue with electrohydraulic or with rear remotes.