Traction Kioti 2009 CK35 Transmission Problem

[wapaper]

Hello all. This is my first post here.

My problem is with my 2009 Kioti CK35 (not an HST). It has 122 hours on it. Last week, while I was mowing a field of grass, all of a sudden it came to a sudden stop. I heard no noises, felt no vibrations, smelled no odors so I thought I had knocked it out of gear somehow but unfortunately I tried over and over to get it into gear again but never could. I finally figured out though that it would move in low gear but only in first gear and only then at the speed of a baby turtle. So literally, it moves about 3 inches in a minute and only on a flat surface. Increasing the engine speed did not increase the tractor's speed. So I checked the hydraulic fluid and found that it was low. However, the FEL and Bushhog had both been working perfectly fine as had the transmission. Could the clutch or something else have burned up due to the low level of hydraulic fluid? I topped off the hydraulic fluid but it hasn't made any difference. Finally, when it is in a gear, the tractor can not be pushed or pulled by anything so it seems to be in gear but it just won't move. Does anyone have an idea as to what it could be and any simple things to try before I haul it into the dealer? Could a linkage or something have broken? Thanks to everyone who responds.

 

[MotorSeven]

What do you mean you can't get it into gear....will the lever not go, or does it go and still not move? Check the easy stuff first, crawl under it and look at all the linkages for shifting and make sure the brake is not engaged. You can run over things that have a bad habit of finding a way to pop up and jam bend and break stuff...rule that out too.

Your still under warranty, so I'd take it in or have the dealer come pick it up. Oh, and welcome to TBN!

 

[wapaper]

What do you mean you can't get it into gear....will the lever not go, or does it go and still not move? Check the easy stuff first, crawl under it and look at all the linkages for shifting and make sure the brake is not engaged. You can run over things that have a bad habit of finding a way to pop up and jam bend and break stuff...rule that out too.

Your still under warranty, so I'd take it in or have the dealer come pick it up. Oh, and welcome to TBN!

Thanks for the welcome and your reply! What I meant was I have it in gear but it will not move like it is in gear. I did check all the linkages and the brakes and they all seemed normal so then I decided to slightly adjust the clutch pedal and now it moves faster but not normally by any means. In any of the high gears now, when I let the clutch pedal out, the tractor slowly starts to move and then slowly builds up momentum so that after about 30 feet, it is moving almost normally. Of course, when I stop, the process starts all over. In any low gear, it almost seems to be moving normally now. Does this information help at all? Can the clutch get burned up when it is low on hydraulic fluid? Wouldn't I have smelled the clutch if it had burned up? Thanks.

 

[MotorSeven]

I can't help you on the clutch...have not had one on a tractor since the 80's and never replaced it(Yanmar). Is that all the adjustment you have, or can you do more? It sounds like something is broken, maybe in the throw out bearing. Are you under warranty?

 

[k0ua]

The clutch is dry.. it is not in the hydraulic fluid.. Sounds like a clutch or throwout bearing failure of some kind, I would not run it as you may be doing more damage to the clutch facing. Get it to the dealer.

James K0UA

 

[wapaper]

I can't help you on the clutch...have not had one on a tractor since the 80's and never replaced it(Yanmar). Is that all the adjustment you have, or can you do more? It sounds like something is broken, maybe in the throw out bearing. Are you under warranty?

Well I'm told that the drivetrain is the only thing still under warranty. Would the throwout bearings be considered part of the drivetrain?

 

[wapaper]

The clutch is dry.. it is not in the hydraulic fluid.. Sounds like a clutch or throwout bearing failure of some kind, I would not run it as you may be doing more damage to the clutch facing. Get it to the dealer.

James K0UA

Would a throwout bearing failure be caused by a low hydraulic fluid level? Just wondering if the low hydraulic fluid level could have caused anything. And I will get it to the dealer now since it sounds like that's all that can be done. I will update when I get an answer. Thanks.

 

[ritcheyvs]

... Get it to the dealer ...

I second this, especially considering you have a warranty. If the exposed linkages are OK there is probably nothing you can do yourself. Splitting a tractor is not a DIY job unless you are extremely-well equipped (or really desperate). Just removing the loader is a real pain and that's the first step.

 

[k0ua]

Well I'm told that the drivetrain is the only thing still under warranty. Would the throwout bearings be considered part of the drivetrain?

** The drive line includes the clutch housing, transmission case, differential and final drive housing, and all parts contained therein, plus drive axles and
external drive shafts. Does NOT include drive clutch disc or PTO clutch disc (wet or dry)
C. The General and Extended Warranties do not cover the following:
1. Physical abuse or misuse of the product or operation of the product in a manner contrary to the provisions of its owner’s manual.
2. A repair made or parts replaced or modified by anyone other than an authorized KIOTI dealer.
3. Damage caused by the use of any non-KIOTI front-end loader, backhoe, attachment, implement, accessory or part.
4. Normal wear items such as, but not limited to: bushing, cutting edges, cutting blades, cutting teeth, drive chains, drive belts, clutch disc, operator’s
seat, and brake lining.

The way I see it, the throwout bearing and linkage and fork would be covered, but NOT the clutch disc itself.. The springs.. I dunno.. Just have to ask the dealer how they see this. Good luck. hopefully it will be a covered repair.

James K0UA

 

[k0ua]

I am no mechanic, so take this with a grain of salt, but is there a chance that the clutch housing is filling with hydraulic fluid from a seal leak in the transmission? This might account for the loss of fluid, and a coated clutch facing.. might account for the symptoms? Maybe do you have one of those push to check little valves on the bottom of the clutch housing to check for water in the clutch housing, and if you push it, does hydraulic oil come out? Of course like I said I could be full of it too. I dunno, but it was just something I came up with.

James K0UA

 

[ritcheyvs]

,,, is there a chance that the clutch housing is filling with hydraulic fluid from a seal leak in the transmission? ... Maybe do you have one of those push to check little valves on the bottom of the clutch housing to check for water in the clutch housing, ...

Interesting guess. My DK has a drain plug under the clutch housing and I'd guess a CK does too. That would be a good thing to check. Also, the clutch pedal should have about an inch of free play before encountering resistance from the clutch springs and that's worth checking too. But unless there is a problem with the external clutch linkage (which should be visible by inspection) or the clutch housing is full of water, this is almost certainly not a DIY repair (unless you have a large enclosed space with concrete floor, overhead hoist, and a strong helper).

Supplemental: If you do have a leaking seal (like James mentioned) you really want to get it fixed (or at least documented) before you go out of warranty.

 

[wapaper]

I am no mechanic, so take this with a grain of salt, but is there a chance that the clutch housing is filling with hydraulic fluid from a seal leak in the transmission? This might account for the loss of fluid, and a coated clutch facing.. might account for the symptoms? Maybe do you have one of those push to check little valves on the bottom of the clutch housing to check for water in the clutch housing, and if you push it, does hydraulic oil come out? Of course like I said I could be full of it too. I dunno, but it was just something I came up with.

James K0UA

I checked and I do have a very large drain plug at the bottom of the clutch housing but I'll have to buy a new socket for it before I can get it off. However, I did get a smaller drain plug off further up the drive train and the hydraulic fluid there is very milky looking. Is this normal? Also, I remember something else from the other day a few minutes before it stopped moving. I had snagged the hydraulic oil intake plug on something and it came off while the tractor was running. I immediately stopped because I heard a sucking type noise and found the plug on the ground and reinstalled it. Would this have introduced air into the transmission/clutch housing? Could air in the line/system be causing this type of problem? Just grasping at straws until I can get it to the dealer on Monday. Thanks for the ideas!

 

[k0ua]

I checked and I do have a very large drain plug at the bottom of the clutch housing but I'll have to buy a new socket for it before I can get it off. However, I did get a smaller drain plug off further up the drive train and the hydraulic fluid there is very milky looking. Is this normal? Also, I remember something else from the other day a few minutes before it stopped moving. I had snagged the hydraulic oil intake plug on something and it came off while the tractor was running. I immediately stopped because I heard a sucking type noise and found the plug on the ground and reinstalled it. Would this have introduced air into the transmission/clutch housing? Could air in the line/system be causing this type of problem? Just grasping at straws until I can get it to the dealer on Monday. Thanks for the ideas!

No, milky fluid usually indicates the presence of water in the fluid. A large plug that unscrews is probably the drain plug for the hydraulic oil. I am talking about a small little "button" you press upward to let water out of the clutch housing. If oil comes out.. that is a problem.. air in the hydraulic fluid is normal. There is always air in the "tank" as it vents to the air. Bubbles just rise to the top of the fluid. The clutch housing has air in it at all times. It is dry, or NOT bathed in the hydraulic fluid. The hydraulic fluid starts with the transmission, separated from the clutch housing by a seal. The transmission and rear differential gears and final reduction gears all share a common fluid, that is also used for all of your hydraulics. 7 or 8 gallons at least. I am sorry to say this, but this problem does not sound good.

James K0UA

 

[MotorSeven]

"I remember something else from the other day a few minutes before it stopped moving. I had snagged the hydraulic oil intake plug on something and it came off while the tractor was running. "

I'm not sure what you are talking about can you post a pic of this intake plug? Also, if you snagged that while grubbing, it is possible you snagged/bent your clutch linkage.

 

[94BULLITT]

The plug is in the bottom of the clutch housing. Can you get it in a different gear with the tractor shut off?

 

[wapaper]

The plug is in the bottom of the clutch housing. Can you get it in a different gear with the tractor shut off?

I can. I can get it into any of the 4 gears in either high or low either when the engine is off or on. Is that good or bad?

 

[wapaper]

Interesting guess. My DK has a drain plug under the clutch housing and I'd guess a CK does too. That would be a good thing to check. Also, the clutch pedal should have about an inch of free play before encountering resistance from the clutch springs and that's worth checking too. But unless there is a problem with the external clutch linkage (which should be visible by inspection) or the clutch housing is full of water, this is almost certainly not a DIY repair (unless you have a large enclosed space with concrete floor, overhead hoist, and a strong helper).

Supplemental: If you do have a leaking seal (like James mentioned) you really want to get it fixed (or at least documented) before you go out of warranty.

I do have an inch or so of play before resistance in the clutch and the external clutch linkage is good. It's hard to believe though that it's a serious problem since I just had it serviced 70 hours ago with all the filters and hydraulic oil changed (over $300) and this problem just came on suddenly with no warning.

One other thing I noticed today though - the hydraulic oil in the system is slightly milky but the oil on the dipstick is absolutely CLEAR. Does that help narrow down where the problem might be or is this normal? Thanks again everyone!

 

[wapaper]

No, milky fluid usually indicates the presence of water in the fluid. A large plug that unscrews is probably the drain plug for the hydraulic oil. I am talking about a small little "button" you press upward to let water out of the clutch housing. If oil comes out.. that is a problem.. air in the hydraulic fluid is normal. There is always air in the "tank" as it vents to the air. Bubbles just rise to the top of the fluid. The clutch housing has air in it at all times. It is dry, or NOT bathed in the hydraulic fluid. The hydraulic fluid starts with the transmission, separated from the clutch housing by a seal. The transmission and rear differential gears and final reduction gears all share a common fluid, that is also used for all of your hydraulics. 7 or 8 gallons at least. I am sorry to say this, but this problem does not sound good.

James K0UA

Ok. Hmmm. Well, when I topped off the hydraulic fluid the other day, I used less than a gallon so I guess it wasn't that low on hydraulic fluid after all then so I guess that wasn't the cause of this problem. That makes me feel better at least. So it sounds like it could be a seal in the clutch area of the transmission as suggested before. It's the only thing that makes sense to me with my limited knowledge since I know that seals can just blow out at anytime. Btw - the FEL and rear PTO work great. It's just the transmission that isn't working.

Also, I never found a small button to press anywhere underneath my tractor. I guess I will have to call the dealer on Monday to ask where it is. At least then, I can see what that shows me. Thanks again for answering all my questions!

 

[k0ua]

I do have an inch or so of play before resistance in the clutch and the external clutch linkage is good. It's hard to believe though that it's a serious problem since I just had it serviced 70 hours ago with all the filters and hydraulic oil changed (over $300) and this problem just came on suddenly with no warning.

One other thing I noticed today though - the hydraulic oil in the system is slightly milky but the oil on the dipstick is absolutely CLEAR. Does that help narrow down where the problem might be or is this normal? Thanks again everyone!

This confuses me.. how are you taking a sample of the hydraulic oil.. are you opening a drain plug in the transmission? and you say it is milky? yet you say when you check it on the dipstick (on on rear of the tractor I assume) it is clear. You are not confusing this with engine oil are you? You are talking about the hydraulic dipstick not the engine oil dipstick. Also I don't see how the milky hydraulic oil has anything to do with the slipping clutch (apparently) original problem. I guess we will all know more when the dealer has a chance to tear into it.

James K0UA

 

[wapaper]

"I remember something else from the other day a few minutes before it stopped moving. I had snagged the hydraulic oil intake plug on something and it came off while the tractor was running. "

I'm not sure what you are talking about can you post a pic of this intake plug? Also, if you snagged that while grubbing, it is possible you snagged/bent your clutch linkage.

I don't know how to post a pic. I know, that's sad. Anyway, The plug I'm talking about is the large red rubber plug that has a hook end on it (it looks like a J) where you add more hydraulic fluid. It's just above the hydraulic fluid dipstick at the back of the tractor.

And I wish I had bent the clutch linkage but sadly, I didn't. Thanks for your ideas.