Ok, will do everything Monday morning. Thanks a lot!
Traction Kioti 2009 CK35 Transmission Problem
- Thread starter wapaper
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Ok, will do everything Monday morning. Thanks a lot!
Haha. Me too! I can't wait. I will let you know in the morning!
Here is a picture of the clutch check/drain plug for the CK. Picture in right hand column. Remove that plug, if water comes out let it dry overnight and try driving. If oil comes out, needs to go to dealer because it has a seal leak.
Yellowish, milky looking oil could be air or water. If it was just serviced recently make sure the hydraulic filter underneath the right side of operator platform is tight, this is suction strainer and loose,leaky gasket could allow air in without having an oil//fluid leak.
ANSWER:
Ok, there is NOTHING coming from the clutch check/drain plug. It is dry as a bone. Is that good or bad?
Also, the hydraulic filter was not as tight as it could have been I guess. I was able to turn/tighten it by hand almost a half turn I'd guess until I couldn't turn it any more so maybe that is/was the reason for the milky hydraulic fluid.
Thanks for all of the advice so far!
Yellowish, milky looking oil could be air or water. If it was just serviced recently make sure the hydraulic filter underneath the right side of operator platform is tight, this is suction strainer and loose,leaky gasket could allow air in without having an oil//fluid leak.
ANSWER:
Ok, there is NOTHING coming from the clutch check/drain plug. It is dry as a bone. Is that good or bad?
Also, the hydraulic filter was not as tight as it could have been I guess. I was able to turn/tighten it by hand almost a half turn I'd guess until I couldn't turn it any more so maybe that is/was the reason for the milky hydraulic fluid.
Thanks for all of the advice so far!
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Sounds to me like the clutch is slipping but it is hard to say without seeing the tractor.
I thought I read somewhere that there would be rpm fluctuations if the clutch was slipping. Is that not correct?
DK35vince
Super Member
Not really.
If the RPM's stay the same, but the machine is slowing down, something is slippng.
Most likely the clutch.
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
Clarification please. When the problem is present (tractor no go or go real slow) if you release the clutch with the tractor in gear and give it some throttle, does the RPM increase like you'd expect? If the RPM goes up under these conditions with a gear transmission, either the clutch is slipping or something has become disconnected in the drive train.
I read that the clutch housing was dry: no water and no oil came out. This is good and bad. It means the possible problem with the easiest fix (clutch full of H2O, just drain and dry) isn't the case. But it also means that the a leaky seal probably isn't the problem either. I looked at the parts diagram (OEM Parts) and the clutch is a 2-disk affair (separate PTO and drive clutches), relaitvely complex compared to the single automotive-style clutch on the DKs. I think it's possible that something in that assembly has come lose or broken. The sudden occurrence of your problem leads me to believe that something mechanical (probably in the clutch stack) is your problem. In any case, I think it's dealer time.
Your dealer may have a borescope that lets him inspect the clutch pack through the drain hole before disassembling anything. In my experience, the borescope is a good tool but you need to know what you should be seeing to use it effectively.
Also, you previously stated that it got better after you adjusted the clutch but later said it got better after several minutes of operation. Do you think the clutch adjustment actually changed anything or might that have been the second behavior that occurred after the adjustment by coincidence?
In any case, please let us know what you learn.
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Oh, ok. Thanks.
Clarification please. When the problem is present (tractor no go or go real slow) if you release the clutch with the tractor in gear and give it some throttle, does the RPM increase like you'd expect? If the RPM goes up under these conditions with a gear transmission, either the clutch is slipping or something has become disconnected in the drive train.
ANSWER: Yes, the rpm's do go up as expected.
I read that the clutch housing was dry: no water and no oil came out. This is good and bad. It means the possible problem with the easiest fix (clutch full of H2O, just drain and dry) isn't the case. But it also means that the a leaky seal probably isn't the problem either. I looked at the parts diagram (OEM Parts) and the clutch is a 2-disk affair (separate PTO and drive clutches), relaitvely complex compared to the single automotive-style clutch on the DKs. I think it's possible thst something in that assembly has come lose or broken. The sudden occurrence of your problem leads me to believe that something mechanical (probably in the clutch stack) is your problem. In any case, I think it's dealer time.
ANSWER: I also think something has broken. Now that I think about it, I ran through a big rut in the field about 100 feet before it suddenly stopped. And I also feel that it's dealer time now. It seems like we've tried all the simple things now.
Also, you previously stated that it got better after you adjusted the clutch but later said it got better after several minutes of operation. Do you think the clutch adjustment actually changed anything or might that have been the second behavior that occurred after the adjustment by coincidence?
ANSWER: Yes, the movement of the tractor got slightly faster after the clutch adjustment (but only in low gear). Then, it had sat for a couple of days I think before I had moved it into another area to be picked up today. So when I moved it, it moved ALMOST normally for about 2 minutes (even in high gear #4) but then suddenly slowed down to a crawl again just as I got it into the new area that was uphill about 500 feet away. That is what is weird to me - how it moved fairly normally for about 2 minutes.
Ok guys. The tractor is now at the dealer and I will let you know what they say as soon as I know. It should be interesting!
My guess is that something broke for some reason that caused the clutch to shred.
My guess is that something broke for some reason that caused the clutch to shred.
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k0ua
Epic Contributor
Me too!
Ok, here is what I know so far. The mechanic looked at it today and this is what he said: Nothing is broken/bent/missing on it anywhere that he can tell. The clutch is not shredded. The clutch is not burned up. He was able to adjust the clutch better than I did and got the tractor moving better today. He is going to work on it some more tomorrow. He thinks it either has a pressure leak or a blockage or a valve sticking or a failed pump somewhere in the hydraulic system causing a loss of hydraulic pressure. That makes sense. That is why the tractor was able to move almost normally the other day for a couple of minutes until it lost pressure because of a leak or blockage or a failed pump. If it is a leak, maybe that's what caused the small loss of hydraulic fluid? If it is a blockage or a valve sticking, I guess that could have unblocked/unstuck itself for the few minutes it ran almost normally and then blocked up again. I would think a blockage or a stuck valve could also explain why the hydraulic fluid is clear at the rear of the tractor and milky at the front. And I wouldn't think it could have ran almost normally for 2 minutes with a failed pump but if it turns out to be a failed pump, then that won't be too expensive to fix depending on which one it is he says. I didn't think it could be anything too bad given the low hours on the tractor, unless something broke but then again, with it acting almost normal for a couple of minutes, I should have concluded that something probably wasn't broken! :confused2: Anyway, the mechanic thinks he'll have it running completely normal tomorrow sometime (unless it's a failed pump) so we'll see. So far, it's only cost me $75 to get it to the dealer. Best case scenario is it gets fixed somehow for free and it only costs me another $75 to have it towed back. If that happens, it will be worth the $150 to learn what happened to it and why and how to prevent it! I will update everyone tomorrow!
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Me too!
But I though it was a gear drive tractor? not a Hydrostat. I am confused. How could the hydraulics on the tractor keep if from moving very fast.. I just don't understand. :confused3:
James K0UA
Me too.
It is a gear drive. Idk. He said something was causing a loss of power to the clutch and/or the transmission (the drive shaft I think he said). I guess I misunderstood him. Easy for me to do.
Maybe he said he thought it had something to do with the transmission fluid? Idk. Sometimes I misunderstand what I hear if I don't know much about it and then I start jumping to conclusions without listening anymore. But I know he said it was moving better but not completely normal yet. I'll get it right tomorrow for sure. Sorry!
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ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
Me three. The first post started with "My problem is with my 2009 Kioti CK35 (not an HST)." and he later discusses the clutch adjustment. AFAIK, the only pumps on the gear tractor are the dual (steering and all else) hydraulic pump, the engine oil pump, and fuel pumps (lift and IP). The initial report from the mechanic does not appear relevant to a gear-drive tractor.
Sorry for the confusion guys. He may have been trying to tell me exactly that. That IF it was an HST, then blah, blah, blah. I'm sure I didn't listen closely enough. He was talking so fast, my ears glazed over I guess. I'm obviously not mechanically inclined. Just think of me as Mr. Douglas on the old Green Acres TV show lol. He could tell me anything and I wouldn't know the difference.
But I will find out more tomorrow and I'll make him go slow and I'll write it down!
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Sorry for the confusion guys. He may have been trying to tell me exactly that. That IF it was an HST, then blah, blah, blah. I'm sure I didn't listen closely enough. He was talking so fast, my ears glazed over I guess. I'm obviously not mechanically inclined. Just think of me as Mr. Douglas on the old Green Acres TV show lol. He could tell me anything and I wouldn't know the difference.
There you go..Sounds like a plan.. we are dying to understand just what caused this, to help others. I was very surprised when you opened the clutch housing and nothing poured out of it! We are just having a hard time understanding how the engine is going 2000+ RPM and the tractor is just crawling. Something has to be slipping, and the only thing we can think of is the clutch, unless something is sheared off in the drivetrain somewhere, but then there is the "it runs OK or near OK for a minute or two" So this has been a head scratch-er for me.
James K0UA
Ok, I spoke with him again this morning and I definitely misunderstood him. That was completely my fault. I had interrupted his explanation of what he thought about it and started asking about it being low on hydraulic fluid and so he went off on IF it were an HST then blah, blah, blah and so I missed the IF part because I was also trying to relay what he was saying to my wife at the same time I was listening to him and he's hard for me to understand anyway so I botched that all up. Sorry!!! :confused3:
Anyway, all he has done so far on it is adjust the clutch but he still has no definite explanation as to what happened or why it came to a sudden stop while mowing in a flat field of grass. He has a couple of ideas about it though he says so I'm supposed to call him back later today after he calls Kioti to confirm (or not confirm) his ideas. I really just want to know what happened, why, how to prevent it, and what to do if it ever happens again. It seems like if all it was, was the clutch slipping, then that would have been a gradual thing to occur, not an all of a sudden event and certainly not on a flat field of grass. Anyway, I'll update later. Thanks everyone!
Anyway, all he has done so far on it is adjust the clutch but he still has no definite explanation as to what happened or why it came to a sudden stop while mowing in a flat field of grass. He has a couple of ideas about it though he says so I'm supposed to call him back later today after he calls Kioti to confirm (or not confirm) his ideas. I really just want to know what happened, why, how to prevent it, and what to do if it ever happens again. It seems like if all it was, was the clutch slipping, then that would have been a gradual thing to occur, not an all of a sudden event and certainly not on a flat field of grass. Anyway, I'll update later. Thanks everyone!
I just came from the dealer and it's good news and bad news of course.
The good news is the tractor is moving great again (I drove it and it seems to be). The bad news is that the mechanic says he doesn't know what happened or why and that Kioti doesn't know either and nobody has ever heard of this kind of thing ever happening before. Then I get charged $60 for labor and all he says he did was loosen the TOP nut on the clutch pedal adjustment so that it would have about an inch or so of free play (he said it took him over an hour to figure out that was what was needed and if you knew this guy, you would agree with him). He also said THAT misadjustment was what was causing the problem with the clutch. Then he says that they can haul it back to my house now (less than 8 miles away) for $50! What a load of crap in my opinion. If he had told me how to adjust the clutch pedal in the first place, I wouldn't have needed to have spent almost $200!
I asked him how to adjust it but he said "No, it won't do any good. Your clutch is shredded I'm sure. Just get it to us and we'll show you." I guess I should have asked here how to do it or looked it up on the internet! Anyway, the "mechanic" also says that my clutch is at least 50% gone now because I've been riding the clutch. ANOTHER load of crap! I have had SIX manual transmission vehicles in my lifetime with a total mileage of over 800,000 miles on them and they all STILL had the original clutches in them when I sold them (all sold between 125,00 and 150,000 miles) so I do NOT ride the clutch!
So since I don't trust this place now, I would like to ask you guys. The clutch pedal NOW has an inch or so of free travel before it seems to engage the clutch. It NEVER had that much play in it in the 3 years that I've had it. It had about 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch of free travel in the past. Was that a major misadjustment? COULD that have caused my clutch wear? IF my clutch is half gone, is there any way to estimate how much longer it COULD last, now that the clutch pedal is properly adjusted like it should have been when I bought it?
I think I should know these answers before I call and complain either to a Kioti regional manager or HQ but I've heard that their customer complaint resolution service is terrible so it's probably going to be a waste of my time anyway.
Thanks to everyone! I think I'm MORE frustrated now than before!
The good news is the tractor is moving great again (I drove it and it seems to be). The bad news is that the mechanic says he doesn't know what happened or why and that Kioti doesn't know either and nobody has ever heard of this kind of thing ever happening before. Then I get charged $60 for labor and all he says he did was loosen the TOP nut on the clutch pedal adjustment so that it would have about an inch or so of free play (he said it took him over an hour to figure out that was what was needed and if you knew this guy, you would agree with him). He also said THAT misadjustment was what was causing the problem with the clutch. Then he says that they can haul it back to my house now (less than 8 miles away) for $50! What a load of crap in my opinion. If he had told me how to adjust the clutch pedal in the first place, I wouldn't have needed to have spent almost $200!
I asked him how to adjust it but he said "No, it won't do any good. Your clutch is shredded I'm sure. Just get it to us and we'll show you." I guess I should have asked here how to do it or looked it up on the internet! Anyway, the "mechanic" also says that my clutch is at least 50% gone now because I've been riding the clutch. ANOTHER load of crap! I have had SIX manual transmission vehicles in my lifetime with a total mileage of over 800,000 miles on them and they all STILL had the original clutches in them when I sold them (all sold between 125,00 and 150,000 miles) so I do NOT ride the clutch!
So since I don't trust this place now, I would like to ask you guys. The clutch pedal NOW has an inch or so of free travel before it seems to engage the clutch. It NEVER had that much play in it in the 3 years that I've had it. It had about 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch of free travel in the past. Was that a major misadjustment? COULD that have caused my clutch wear? IF my clutch is half gone, is there any way to estimate how much longer it COULD last, now that the clutch pedal is properly adjusted like it should have been when I bought it?
I think I should know these answers before I call and complain either to a Kioti regional manager or HQ but I've heard that their customer complaint resolution service is terrible so it's probably going to be a waste of my time anyway.
Thanks to everyone! I think I'm MORE frustrated now than before!
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