Kioti Injection Pump Failure Data

[ritcheyvs]

Fellow Kioti owners and operators. Multiple injection pump failures have been reported on this site so I'd like to start a survey to collect data on these costly and frustrating failures. This information will be most useful if you respond only after your failure is completely resolved. Also, please advise if there are other data that should be added to this list. I hope collecting this information in one place will benefit everyone in our pack. As I receive this data, I'll consolidate it in a spreadsheet at: http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/Kioti_IP_Data.htm


If your Kioti injection pump had a confirmed failure, please respond with the following data as known:
(1) Tractor Model
(2) Year built
(3) First 4 digits of serial number
(3a) Stop solenoid style (old or new)*
(4) Approximate operating hours at time of failure
(5) Nature of failure (if known, e.g. jammed tack, stripped gears, excessive plungrr wear, etc)
(6) Corrective action (e.g. new IP, local IP rebuild, etc.)
(7) Did Kioti cover any of the cost (e.g. under warranty)
(8) Approximate failure-free hours since failure

* The old style stop solenoid is external and operates on the manual stop linkage on the cover plate just below the injection pump. The new style stop solenoid is mounted on the front of the engine; the cover plate just below the injection pump also serves as the oil fill port. If you prefer, send me your full serial number by private message and I will identify your configuration.

 

[sherrym]

Fellow Kioti owners and operators. Multiple injection pump failures have been reported on this site so I'd like to start a survey to collect data on these costly and frustrating failures. This information will be most useful if you respond only after your failure is completely resolved. Also, please advise if there are other data that should be added to this list. I hope collecting this information in one place will benefit everyone in our pack.

If your Kioti injection pump had a confirmed failure, please respond with the following data as known:
(1) Tractor Model
(2) Year built
(3) First 4 digits of serial number
(4) Approximate operating hours at time of failure
(5) Nature of failure (if known, e.g. jammed tack, stripped gears, excessive plungrr wear, etc)
(6) Corrective action (e.g. new IP, local IP rebuild, etc.)
(7) Did Kioti cover any of the cost (e.g. under warranty)
(8) Approximate failure-free hours since failure

You should be able to use 1-3 above to determine from the online oem parts websites which stop solenoids are on the tractors with failed IP pumps. Can't get rid of a gut feeling that the newer style SS (e.g. rod on end of SS that directly pushes through a plastic guide which in turn has a tip that pushes IP rack pin in off position when key is turned off) is still not at fault.

The old style had a start spring attached to fuel cham shaft gear and fork lever 1 to start engine and had the SS attached by a support bracket to front of IP cover to stop engine by means of rod pushing on extenal lever which would in turn move an internal stop lever to move IP rack. Thus you would not have the IP rack receiving the direct and violent action of the SS rod. I would really like to see Bocsh/kioti enginneers comment on this.

This is the only thing I would add in collecting data for this problem.
Hope you will get alot of response so can shed some light on this problem.

 

[DK35vince]

Asa far as I could tell by reading many of the previous posts on pump failures, the IP issues looked like it was mostly the 2006-2008 models.

 

[sherrym]

Asa far as I could tell by reading many of the previous posts on pump failures, the IP issues looked like it was mostly the 2006-2008 models.

If I am reading the serial number correctly on oem parts websites it looks like (at least for my DK45S tractor) that the new SS style started on 2005 C44 models with serial numbers 00209 and up. So that would definitely handle the 2006-2008 years. My tractor is 2006 C44 and definitely has the new style SS.

 

[ritcheyvs]

You should be able to use 1-3 above to determine from the online oem parts websites which stop solenoids are on the tractors with failed IP pumps. Can't get rid of a gut feeling that the newer style SS (e.g. rod on end of SS that directly pushes through a plastic guide which in turn has a tip that pushes IP rack pin in off position when key is turned off) is still not at fault.

The old style had a start spring attached to fuel cham shaft gear and fork lever 1 to start engine and had the SS attached by a support bracket to front of IP cover to stop engine by means of rod pushing on extenal lever which would in turn move an internal stop lever to move IP rack. Thus you would not have the IP rack receiving the direct and violent action of the SS rod

Thanks for suggestion. I think I modified the data request accordingly. I have the "new" SS design on my tractor so I'm a little unclear how the old version operates. As near as I can tell from the documentation, the "old" design uses a manual lever on a shaft that goes through the cover plate with a lever on the inside that pushes directly on the rack pin, with the electrical solenoid operating directly on that shaft. I didn't see any spring that might absorb the shock of the solenoid's action. Am I missing something? Is the solenoid force low enough to avoid gear damage? I guess I assumed that the SS shutoff spring in the new design would be spec'd strong enough to overcome the throttle spring but weak enough to avoid IP gear damage (and springs don't generally get stronger with age). But maybe I don't understand

 

[sherrym]

Thanks for suggestion. I think I modified the data request accordingly. I have the "new" SS design on my tractor so I'm a little unclear how the old version operates. As near as I can tell from the documentation, the "old" design uses a manual lever on a shaft that goes through the cover plate with a lever on the inside that pushes directly on the rack pin, with the electrical solenoid operating directly on that shaft. I didn't see any spring that might absorb the shock of the solenoid's action. Am I missing something? Is the solenoid force low enough to avoid gear damage? I guess I assumed that the SS shutoff spring in the new design would be spec'd strong enough to overcome the throttle spring but weak enough to avoid IP gear damage (and springs don't generally get stronger with age). But maybe I don't understand

The spring I was referring to (on old style) is shown as a start spring attached on one end to the fuel cam shaft gear and attached on the other end to the fork lever and is only relevent to starting(as far as I can tell). I just thought that would help explain difference between old and new style.

I think I said basically the same thing about how old style stopped the engine. The point being that the old style works more like a manual shutoff ( i think) with less force being applied to IP rack.

From what I read(page 2-40 in ex manual) the only thing the SS has to overcome is the idle spring located in the idle adjust bolt when tractor would be at idle before shut off. When I had idle adjust bolt out when removing IP, it's spring tension ,by hand, is much much less than the spring tension, by hand, on the SS. I cannot find anything that talks about SS needing to overcome throttle(i.e. governor spring), but maybe I missed something. Also the start spring is located on my tractor in the idle adjust bolt not on fuel camshaft gear and fork lever.

Bottom line for me is: old style used different method to act upon IP rack to start and stop engine than new style, (which seems to me to be harsher on IP rack). I could be wrong and that would be fine because I would like repaired or new IP to out live me.

 

[Gittyup]

2006 CK25
New style pump
failed at ~320 hours - stuck open full throttle
Kioti replaced under warranty

 

[ritcheyvs]

Gittyup: Thanks data has been added to online spreadsheet.

 

[oldbob]

tractor just died spins but wont fire, called Kioti dealer who thinks the pump is dead, keep u all posted on warranty stuff

 

[dlw1501]

2 pumps for me!!! 1st one gears broken...covered under warranty. 2nd one rod jammed in bore....i paid for this one. Kioti didnt want to hear it. My tractor is a 2006 CK25. Stop solenoid is new version. 1st failure was at 300-400 hours......2nd failure was at 925 hours.

 

[SSdoxie]

Might also ask how old tactor was at the time if warranty did pay. Is Kioti only covering those with broken gear while in warranty time frame or are they assisting if warranty has expired?

 

[dlw1501]

My tractor was 2-3 years old and still under warranty. 2nd one...6 years and they dont care!!!!!! Had to get pump out of a Bobcat CT225 which is same machine as mine.

 

[boomer613]

Did Kioti fixed this for newer models (2009 and beyond) or we just haven't seen them break yet as are not old enough (hours used)? Do the injection pump failures happen on all models such as the DK40/DK45/DK50?

 

[btward79]

I know I'm not suppose to respond until my issue is resolved. It looks like I have IP trouble too. I'll comment on that later. My main point here is someone mentioned this being covered possibly by the EPA's warrenty... Here is a document from their site... http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/warr95fs.txt

It sounds like injection systems are warrentied for two years. The factory warrenty does that. There are some items listed for 8 years but not the IP from what I see. Also, there is no reference to tractors. I'll call today if I can and post findings.

 

[dlw1501]

I'm not sure of the years......and their are some cases of the 4cylinder pumps locking up. Somewhere on hear I guy has a picture posted when he took his apart and gears where broke...I think it was a 4 cylinder one

 

[ritcheyvs]

Did Kioti fixed this for newer models (2009 and beyond) or we just haven't seen them break yet as are not old enough (hours used)? Do the injection pump failures happen on all models such as the DK40/DK45/DK50?

I'm guessing this was a bad batch of IP gears that had metalurgy or hardening problems. The failure reports I've seen seem to be about the 2006 time frame for engines with the new-style stop solenoid (bolted to front of engine vs connected to manual shutoff linkage on right side). But that's part of the reason I'm trying to collect some data on this costly repair.

I know for a fact (see sherrym posts) that this can effect the 4-cylinder engines (that's when I started paying attention). I suspect the plunger assemblies in all these IPs are all same regardless of the number of engine cylinders.

 

[ritcheyvs]

... Somewhere on hear I guy has a picture posted when he took his apart and gears where broke...I think it was a 4 cylinder one

Photos here: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/225273-injector-pump-failure.html

 

[btward79]

I'm guessing this was a bad batch of IP gears that had metalurgy or hardening problems. The failure reports I've seen seem to be about the 2006 time frame for engines with the new-style stop solenoid (bolted to front of engine vs connected to manual shutoff linkage). But that's part of the reason I'm trying to collect data on this costly repair.

I know for a fact (see sherrym posts) that this can effect the 4-cylinder engines (that's when I started paying attention). I suspect the plunger assemblies in IPs are all the same regardless of the number of engine cylinders.

Scott, I suppose it's not official yet until it's repaired but it's obviously looking like my IP is bad. With that said it rules out use on the tractor as I have 39 hours. That should answer the other guys question. Also, my tractor was delivered to the dealer in 2005 and sold to the customer in 2008. I plan on documenting everything and placing it in the thread you have on collecting data. I'll make sure my post about my trouble is included for future references as well.

 

[dlw1501]

Scott.....that's the pictures!!!

 

[ritcheyvs]

Might also ask how old tactor was at the time if warranty did pay. Is Kioti only covering those with broken gear while in warranty time frame or are they assisting if warranty has expired?

Good thought but I have the year built and the year of failure so I almost have that information now. Considering that the data I get is often incomplete anyway, I thing I'll leave the spreadsheet as is for now. Thanks.