A need a hydraulic genius

[huskerhayman]

His is going to be long so bear with me. I have a Case IH 885 w/cab that I bought. It was a county mowing tractor and has one factory remote. That decided they need 4 remotes and put a three spool valve in the cab (dumb in my opinion). I have a hydro swing windrower that I am trying to run that needs two remotes. When I hooked up the windrower and tried to swing it the pressure relief valve would bypass on the added valve. It was non adjustable and set at 1750psi. That was first cutting of hay and I said screw it and just used my old tractor. Now I just picked up some more acres and it is hot as **** out and I want to cut in ac. So I have an old loader valve that I put in place of the three spool. Now when I try to swing it will only swing one way. If I switch the hoses it will only swing the other way. It does this on both spools. If I hook it up to the factory vale it works fine but someone must have decided that they didn't want that valve and they cut the handle off under the cab (again dumb in my opinion). I have to crawl under the tractor to get it to work. I am stumped and I prob will just fab up a handle real quick so I can cut. I would like to figure it out what is wrong but I already have two factory valves that I am going to add this fall when I have more time to build the controls for them because I cannot find them anywhere. Sorry for the extremely long post but any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[aczlan]

Do you have a picture of this loader valve as it sits? And/or a make/model?

I have some ideas, but I dont want to mislead you.

Thanks

Aaron Z

 

[allenr]

Could it be a problem with the couplers - I'm assuming there are couplers between the valve and the cyl?

Maybe not fully coupled or an incompatibility problem where the poppets aren't fully depressed.

Perhaps try bypassing the couplers - let us know how you go.

 

[huskerhayman]

Here is a picture of the loader valve in the cab and the outlets at the back. The loader valve is plumbed before the factory valve.

 

[J_J]

Have you checked to see if you have the hoses plugged into the same spool.

With all those QD in the back, you could have mistakenly plugged one cyl hose in spool 1, and then plugged the other cyl hose into spool 2. When you try to use the hyd, the relief comes on, and nothing works.

Did this start after you made some changes?

Work port A of the spool should go to the base end of the cyl, and work port B should go to the rod end of the SAME cyl.

All valves should be in series and the first valve upstream will have priority and if using that valve there might not be any fluid left for the rest of the hyd system.

 

[aczlan]

Just to confirm, you are connecting to the lines which lead to A and B, or C and D (as seen in the picture above) not any other combination?

Aaron Z

 

[J_J]

Aaron Z,


You might check the labeling for the work ports.

If the valve work ports is labeled A,B,C,D, then the A and C ports are located close to the handle , and B and D are located close to the bottom.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-7862-F.pdf

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Drawing/DR9-7862-F.pdf

Some valve us A1, and B1, and A2, and B2

 

[aczlan]

Aaron Z,
You might check the labeling for the work ports.
If the valve work ports is labeled A,B,C,D, then the A and C ports are located close to the handle , and B and D are located close to the bottom.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-7862-F.pdf
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Drawing/DR9-7862-F.pdf
Some valve us A1, and B1, and A2, and B2

I was putting an arbitrary label on the ports to distinguish them, not trying to find the manufacturer's markings. Looking at http://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-7862-F.pdf the ports are in line with the handle (ie: my arbitrary labels of A/B or C/D for work port pairs match with the cylinder connections shown).

Aaron Z

 

[EE_Bota]

I'm not a hydraulics genius, but when I do try to sort this stuff, I pay a great deal of attention to hydraulic relief noises, and hydraulic hose "dancing." Hoses dance when pressure hits them. Were I you, what with the different tractor and all, and the different coupler possibilities, I'd change all couplers to YOUR standard coupler for your farm, and I would have one coupler set with a gauge attached.

A person like you will see enough issues with acreage and multiple tractors to where you could instead of hooking a gauge to a quick coupler half, get a tee and YOUR standard quick coupler set, and hook a female QC to one side, a male QC to the other, and the gauge to the third port in the middle. That would allow you to check all quick couplers, all pressure lines and all return lines, and help you discover odd problems.

 

[huskerhayman]

Have you checked to see if you have the hoses plugged into the same spool.

With all those QD in the back, you could have mistakenly plugged one cyl hose in spool 1, and then plugged the other cyl hose into spool 2. When you try to use the hyd, the relief comes on, and nothing works.[/QUOTE

I had them plugged in wrong the first time I tried. I got a nice fluid bath from one of the hoses that wasn't hooked up.


[QUOTE="J_J]Did this start after you made some changes?[/QUOTE

I couldn't get it to swing either way when I had the three spool in there. I could hear it bypassing at the valve both with the three spool and with the OEM valve.

[QUOTE="J_J]Work port A of the spool should go to the base end of the cyl, and work port B should go to the rod end of the SAME cyl.

All valves should be in series and the first valve upstream will have priority and if using that valve there might not be any fluid left for the rest of the hyd system.

 

[huskerhayman]

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=273166"/>
Just to confirm, you are connecting to the lines which lead to A and B, or C and D (as seen in the picture above) not any other combination?

Aaron Z

That is the way I have them hooked up. I will have to double check and make sure they are not switched.

 

[huskerhayman]

I'm not a hydraulics genius, but when I do try to sort this stuff, I pay a great deal of attention to hydraulic relief noises, and hydraulic hose "dancing." Hoses dance when pressure hits them. Were I you, what with the different tractor and all, and the different coupler possibilities, I'd change all couplers to YOUR standard coupler for your farm, and I would have one coupler set with a gauge attached.

A person like you will see enough issues with acreage and multiple tractors to where you could instead of hooking a gauge to a quick coupler half, get a tee and YOUR standard quick coupler set, and hook a female QC to one side, a male QC to the other, and the gauge to the third port in the middle. That would allow you to check all quick couplers, all pressure lines and all return lines, and help you discover odd problems.

That is a great idea to make the test gauge with the QC. I have everything to make it but a gauge. I will pick one up today and try it out.

 

[J_J]

Reasons for the relief to go off could be:

Cyl at end of travel.

QD uncoupled.

Mismatched ports.

No return path from the cyl. Wrong port, or QD disconnected.

Collapsed cyl hose.

If using hyd motor, a stalled motor.

With all valves in neutral, should be no or very little pressure in the system.

Can you put a gage in the FEL IN port and take some pressure readings. This may tell you which spool on which valve is causing problems.

 

[aczlan]

Could also be a bad QD on the tractor side. I picked up a set of small QDs a few years back (1/4" to match what was on the B and BX) and one of the male QDs locks up under pressure as I found when I tried to use them this summer on the baler.
Either way, the issue should be verifiable with the gauge on the valve as J_J said.

Aaron Z

 

[J_J]

Are you using any single action cylinders [ SA ] on the implements you are using now?

 

[huskerhayman]

Are you using any single action cylinders [ SA ] on the implements you are using now?

The swing cylinder is DA the raise is single acting on the windrower. I think Aaron Z might be on the right track that the QA couple on the tractor may be the culprit. I will have to check them out tonight. That would explain why it would go the other way when I would switch the hoses.

 

[EE_Bota]

I have had new QC pairs that would not work with each other...and they were a matched set. Instead of having limits on the stroke on the poppets, some manufacturers don't limit that poppet stroke, so the springs have to match force well enough, else both poppets may shift leaving one wide open, and the other fully or partially closed. That will cause the relief to sound, and if you push it, it will extrude the rubber poppet seal, if present.

 

[Leejohn]

The pic of the back of the tractor of the couplers how are you reading or how they match each other? The 2 hoses that are hooked up I would say that is not a match.

 

[huskerhayman]

The pic of the back of the tractor of the couplers how are you reading or how they match each other? The 2 hoses that are hooked up I would say that is not a match.

I read them by following the hoses but for the factory setup there are colored stickers on each side that match the color of knob on the handle in the cab. It is a little different how they hook up so far apart, but that bottom set is the only ones that work correctly.

Last night I just Fixed the handle for the factory valve to get me going. I had to fix my windrower also. Now i get to haul my 14' wide windrower 20 miles to the field across town (should be fun) and get going. Hope nuthin breaks for once.

 

[Leejohn]

Hope your trip went ok. I don't think I would of done that I don't like to pull anything on the roads.
Back to the way you hook up, lets say you have a red knob in the cab, what two couplers do you us in back for the red knob?