Found a coyote, I think

/ Found a coyote, I think #181  
Great Pic's....boy she sure is a beauty queen.

You might of posted this, but how does she handle strangers? Apprehensive or not?
 
/ Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#182  
Motor,

At first when meeting someone new, she is a bit cautious. She might perk up and go toward them a few steps, then wait to get introduced. Then she is happy and will jump up into their lap or show them her belly. Most folks are more cautious with her than she is with them. She can be a bit much at times with wanting to play tug-of-war with peoples clothes or her gentle mouthing wolf kisses. I'm not trying to teach her manners very much and she is in that terrible puppy stage of wanting to chew everything. The thing that scares her most are loud unexpected noises. She'll run off and then look from a safe distance. I'll call her back and she comes to check my hand for a treat. If a car drives in she'll stop what she's doing and watch.

It's funny when we are sitting around visiting with someone on the front porch, or I'm up in the garage and a friend stops by. Suddenly a coyote comes trotting up! I'm used to it now and wonder what she will get into. Others are startled but love it. No one seems to quite know what to do with her. Just now a neighbor drove in and got the full greeting.

She never has barked and her tail doesn't wag like other dogs. Some occasional swishing back and forth, but no real wagging. She prances around and jumps up or goes along for walks. She loves keep-away and wants to start the game often. Leather gloves are one of her favorite things and she even has a few hidden away that we can't find. Every once in a while she gets one out to play with and chew. We see a twinkle in her eye as she spots something to keep from us. She grabs onto it, maybe a glove or a bungee cord or a partial roll of paper towels, and watches for a response. If I move toward her or say "no", off she goes and the game is on. Later if we can't find what she took, she'll go with us to look, then get it out from the hiding place and drop it in front of us.

She has been improving her den lately too. She is getting bigger and had to excavate. Last night she was catching bugs near the front door that were attracted by the porch light, we could hear coyotes in the distance and watched for a response from her. She didn't seem to notice.

Another bright morning has arrived. She came out from her den looking sleepy and began to greet and play. A very happy little dog. Unguarded emotions of joy. Mock growling and biting with Bei Bei. The simple powerful joy of being alive, healthy and happy.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #183  
Thank you for sharing this experience with us. I look for a new post from you every time I log on. It's not only an interesting subject but you write about it very well also. thanks again.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #184  
John I think she looks the most content when she is with her pack! Riding in the truck, sprawled out with BeiBei she doesn't have a care in the world. I think you might be in it for the long haul, she will grow into her own and be able to catch rabbits and other small game, being somewhat self suffient, but I think ultimately she will still look to you and your wife for comfort. Your pickup looks about as crowded as my toyota when we take our wolves for a ride, and they know all about drive-tru windows.
I have to agree with the other posts that you really need to plan on writing a book on your experiences with Sandy, you defineatly have the writing skills for it, and the photos are great.
Have a Happy Fathers Day

Randy
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #185  
Raspy, it's a fascinating story, and yes you are very well versed in the written word:thumbsup:

I think at this point you are premature in setting here free. She is not ready and may or may not ever be "ready" to go on her own. I think that if the time comes, you will know for sure and it because she will tell you.

There is always "Option 3".........buy your own 500 ac ranch with a house in the middle of it:laughing:
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #186  
Or maybe one of the TBN'ers has that 500 acre ranch where you can free her without worry...wouldn't that be great? I'm with MotorSeven...she will tell you when. That's what Rocky, (my pet raccoon), did.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#187  
Thanks again for the kind words. We are really enjoying this story.

I agree that she is not ready to be on her own yet. Maybe she never will be as we are not well equipped or willing to do what's necessary for that.

Word is gradually spreading about her. A neighbor came by that I had not told about Sandy and asked about her. So I feel like a deadline is approaching that I can't see. An official animal control visit and her being taken to be killed.

Also, as she matures, there is bound to be changes in her demeanor. As I've mentioned, I don't want a dangerous wild thing here and I will be willing to take her to some remote location if she gets crazy. It's all new to us and we don't know what's coming, but so far she couldn't be more fun.

I want to share this in great detail as I'm very interested in who she is. I feel she can do so much good by improving the understanding people have of these wonderful animals that are virtually the same as the ones living in homes all over the country. How can someone hate a coyote and love a dog? Not unless they don't understand the coyote. So far, they are the same thing in this story. Sandy and our other dogs understand each other perfectly. If someone came here without pre-conceived notions about what a coyote was, they wouldn't give her a second thought. Just another cute and friendly dog.

I know they are dangerous pests in some settings and I'm not downplaying that, but they are also sensitive, intelligent, loyal and fun loving dogs. Not just similar, but the same as domestic dogs. Even more pure as they have not been bread to display certain traits. Just a natural dog with all it's inherent intelligence, survival skills, adaptable ways, physical strength and sense of humor. No wonder they are so successful!

Now comes the tricky part. This is where my story begins to depart from the openness I want to have with all of you. How do I protect her, and at the same time, pronounce to everyone what my tactics are to insure her survival? Normal channels have been exhausted. There is some fear by others. Legal issues loom. I've revealed too much to my neighbors in a naive belief that everyone would be as curious as we are. Even that difficulty and conflict, in itself, is part of the value of the story. If some greater understanding and good can come from this, the whole story needs to be splayed out for all to see. Maybe Sandy can ride a wave of popularity to safety. Fly above the danger to an island of peace. But not unless she is understood.

A book is a great idea. I'm not sure I can put one together, but it is warranted. We were brainstorming the most effective and interesting approach to one just last night. The cause is there. The story is there. The suspense, the conflict, the beauty and the innocence. I have gone from a curious observer to a smitten advocate, a loyal friend. While cheering for her I hope for all of them.

I welcome more suggestions. Sandy and I have benefitted from so many of your ideas.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#188  
The 500 acre ranch is a great idea. Probably the best plan of all.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #189  
Hopefully someone here on TBN reading this has a ranch, or a friend that does, or the friends X-brother in law's second cousin.

All joking aside, a little networking here and I am sure something can be done. I'm out with a hundred ac...sorry.

Oh, and I think you could make a book and make it interesting....you have a knack.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#191  
Here's an update on Sandy. Things are just cruising along without any drama. She's still growing, maturing and becoming even more fun. Definitely getting stronger and faster, but no real hunting success yet. I'll post some pictures again soon.

We're finding the same dog can be very cautious and very stubborn. Wary and vulnerable. Interacting with her on different levels makes us wonder about hard wiring vs intelligence. She can be in her own world and aloof, then need us and find security in our touch.

She seems to like water. No swimming yet, but we have graduated her to a large tub of drinking water from a small bowl. She routinely steps right in with all four, then splashes water on herself and out on the ground. Sort of like she's digging. Then either gets a drink or steps out and licks it up off the pavement. Pretty funny to watch. I went over and "helped" her get water up on her back and tail. She was OK with it for a few seconds with no struggling. Then she stepped out and shook like I'd expect any other wet dog to do.

We've been picking up roadkill rabbits about every other day and she loves them. Rabbits are a big part of the environment here and there are lots of them. Plus, Liye is learning to drive. So, driving around looking for rabbits is good practice while getting Sandy a lot of food. They are usually found within a mile of home. We need to find them shortly after the hit, not too severely damaged and before the birds arrive. What was once seen as ugly carnage, now has practical value and we actually look for them. All for this little dog! She works on them for a while then hides them for later. She'll go with us to look for the hiding place, but won't reveal where they are. Then later she has them out again. After a couple of days they are gone except for a foot or some fur. Bei Bei pretty much leaves them alone, but will try one sometimes after Sandy has had her fill, and when she does, she guards them with serious growls. In the beginning when a new one arrives, the intestines get separated out and left nearby. We pick them up to get rid of them.

Pre-conceived notions of what "wild" means have gone out the window. As a wild dog, Sandy is quite a little homebody. She never wanders off even though she is not tied. Today we were gone for most of the day and when we got back Liye discovered that Sandy was mad, depressed or upset with her. Kind of a cold shoulder act. Something in the eyes and in her actions. Didn't want to be touched. But not with me at all and we had a fine greeting. The other day our other dog, Bei Bei, wandered off as she always does when left unleashed. Sandy let Liye know by staring toward Bei Bei and refusing to come when called, kind of nervous, like things were out of order. When Eddie ran off, like he always does too, Sandy went to get him and pulled him back home. Somehow she knows they are not supposed to leave, or she thinks things are out of order somehow.

When we take her visiting with us to a friends house, she wants to come home after a while. About two or three hours is enough for her no matter how well she is being treated. She starts getting irritable like a tired child. No matter if she is in the house or playing outside untethered. When we give up and bring her home it turns out she needs to pee and poo and get a drink. Then she is fine again and back to her old self. No way she wants to go at the friends house, just at home. But if we are on a trip, or out for the day exploring in the mountains, no problem.

The games of keep-a-way continue. In the morning she comes up to my shop and looks for something to take. A glint in her eye says it's a game. If I say "no!", she's off and disappears with a tool, or piece of hose, or a can, or something. If I offer her a cookie, she is torn and the tension mounts. She loves the treats we give her and she is always checking my hands for them, but to give up a game for one is a dilemma. If I patiently show her the treat as she chews on the shoe she just took, she looks at me and braces for her escape. I can practically see the wheels turning as she guards her toy, watches for my next move, chews excitedly and decides what to do. Then, usually, she will drop the shoe and take the treat. She sees this as a trade and is happy. A few minutes later she runs up for a nice greeting and a tummy scratch. All is well and there is total trust. If I try to chase her to get the item back, no way. She is off like a shot but stops to look back when out of range. If I act like I don't care, she usually drops it just out of sight, so I keep finding my stuff all over the place. Every time I do, I smile. That little prankster! Someday, when she's gone, I know I'll keep finding reminders of her playful presence. I'll pause and think of her with a pang in my heart.

Our other two dogs are very domesticated and they play with each other a lot, but they have never figured out a viable game with our cat. Same with Sandy. All the dogs know dog games, dog communication techniques and dog interests. The coyote fits in with the domestic dogs as well as any other dog. Even better than most with Bei Bei as she has mothered her, been her pal, kept her cleaned up, wakes her up in the morning if we ask her to and on and on. True pack members and playmates. But Sandy, as with the other two, can't figure out a workable game with the cat.

It seems a dog is a dog, wether it's a mutt, or has been bred for hundreds of generations to maximize certain traits as a "purebred" or if it actually is a purebred, like Sandy, that has had no breeding manipulation in her history, maybe, for thousands of years. They are all dogs.

In the end, how can anyone say a coyote is not a purebred dog aside from the fact that no one has actually controlled the breeding? What is a pure bred dog? The result of man's interference to maximize a desirable trait? Or an actual pure breed that has arrived at a well rounded, smart, fast, capable, fun loving, sensitive design, on it's own, in the wild? A survivor in the real world, with no serious design flaws.

It's fun to watch and interact with an animal that is simply being itself. Displaying natural, hard wired behaviors, well thought out strategies, concerns and emotions. Developing a trust with a wild animal that is very much alive, happy and living an interesting life. One able to pursue it's needs and thrive in a situation far different than it's ancestors. A situation, it turns out, that it already understands. Just like other dogs we all love and live with.

So, with respect to dogs, what is wild? What is domestic? What is pure? And here is another one for you, why is one hated and the other loved? Have you ever seen the problem of domestic dogs packing up with others and causing havoc that seems unthinkable from the gentle house dog you thought you knew? If domestic dogs can act wild and wild dogs can be domestic, are they not almost the same?

It makes sense that someone might like a Greyhound and dislike a Maltese. Someone might like a Doberman, another an Aussie. There is nothing wrong with any of those. Someone else might like a Coyote instead of a Poodle. So far, I see no problem with a decision like that as long as each one can have its individual needs met in order to thrive.
 
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/ Found a coyote, I think #192  
Your much anticipated installment of Sandy's adventures has brightened my morning. It's like waiting all week for a new episode of your favorite show. Although I am too young to have experienced the heyday of radio, I do enjoy listening to "oldies" on satellite radio. Sandy as described through your writing skill reminds me of some of the old time hit radio shows.

Your last post raises some interesting questions and observations. Its unfortunate, but laws are often written in a broad sense without allowances for unique situations. Here in Missouri, you could probably get a permit to keep her, albeit confined by enclosure to protect the animal (and the public) from harm. Somehow i know thats not your desire, to imprison Sandy by fences, or chain link pens.

So, is the current plan to practice status quo? Waiting until your hand is forced to act? Or are you planning an assault on "city hall" to secure some preferential special permit to allow you to keep Sandy legally yet el natural? Or have you found a suitable foster home / wilderness area to relocate her to?

Give your furry friend a tummy rub for me :)!
 
/ Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#193  
Dean,

Planning on waiting until my hand is forced isn't really the plan. I've been accused of procrastinating, but that's not it either.

Sandy is not yet mature and she is not a threat. She can't effectively hunt.

We have been actively searching for a good solution and are willing to jump on the right one. Meanwhile, everyone is benefitting from this little wild ambassador. She is benefitting too.

I've covered my feelings on this issue at length and nothing has changed regarding the intention. One of the reasons there has been such a delay in my writing is that we have been working on it and I had nothing to share. Plus, I have a job and ongoing projects to deal with.

I'm hoping to get some thoughts from everyone on the "wild" and "purebred" questions.

Thanks for your kind words.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #194  
Sorry, but I didn't scan through the 20 pages of other responses so I may just be repeating what others have said. Have you thought about contacting a coyote rescue group? I know there is one in Indiana and I think there is one in California and Arizona.

Good luck!
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #195  
Thanks for the update. I have enjoyed reading and keeping up with your posts about Sandy.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #196  
Your much anticipated installment of Sandy's adventures has brightened my morning. It's like waiting all week for a new episode of your favorite show. Although I am too young to have experienced the heyday of radio, I do enjoy listening to "oldies" on satellite radio. Sandy as described through your writing skill reminds me of some of the old time hit radio shows.

Your last post raises some interesting questions and observations. Its unfortunate, but laws are often written in a broad sense without allowances for unique situations. Here in Missouri, you could probably get a permit to keep her, albeit confined by enclosure to protect the animal (and the public) from harm. Somehow i know thats not your desire, to imprison Sandy by fences, or chain link pens.

So, is the current plan to practice status quo? Waiting until your hand is forced to act? Or are you planning an assault on "city hall" to secure some preferential special permit to allow you to keep Sandy legally yet el natural? Or have you found a suitable foster home / wilderness area to relocate her to?

Give your furry friend a tummy rub for me :)!

Raspy... I've also been enjoying the story of Sandy. This post made me think again of something that I was wondering as perhaps another option for you and Sandy. Have you looked in to what it would take for you to be considered a wildlife rehabilitator? Even if you only had one "wild" to rehab.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #197  
Dean,

Planning on waiting until my hand is forced isn't really the plan. I've been accused of procrastinating, but that's not it either.

Sandy is not yet mature and she is not a threat. She can't effectively hunt.

We have been actively searching for a good solution and are willing to jump on the right one. Meanwhile, everyone is benefitting from this little wild ambassador. She is benefitting too.

I've covered my feelings on this issue at length and nothing has changed regarding the intention. One of the reasons there has been such a delay in my writing is that we have been working on it and I had nothing to share. Plus, I have a job and ongoing projects to deal with.

I'm hoping to get some thoughts from everyone on the "wild" and "purebred" questions.

Thanks for your kind words.
I too have been wondering about you and your feral friend. I'm glad nothing bad has happened and you're all faring well.
I should add that I'm a little envious.
My assertions are based solely on your reports.
Thanks for the update and good luck.
Don't be stingy with the pictures ;).
 
/ Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#198  
Here are a few more pix of Sandy.
 

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