Ballast almost flipped the tractor, really need some help!

[thinggy42]

Hey guys
First time posting here and I really need some help!
We have quite a steep block of land. Around 5 acres with the steepest part being 40 degrees or so.

I recently purchased a John Deere 4105 with a FEL to do some hobby farming / mowing. There were a few delivery delays for the FEL so at first I only had the tractor. She worked like a charm and I managed to mow all the lawn and get started ripping / tilling. FEL arrived and the whole dynamic changed.

It feels like the tractor actually has trouble going up the hill now? A lot more revs required and she seems unstable.

I'd never driven a tractor before but hydrostatic was simple enough. Did a good 30 hours before the FEL. I had no idea about counterweighting on the first day with the FEL and this happened ( photos )

I didn't get hurt but **** was I shaken up. The FEL is large at 6 foot and the path I cut was only 5 so it didn't fit lowered. I raised it and it just tipped forward.

I thought the ripper would be enough counterweight but it wasn't. The tyres arnt filled either as some have suggested.

I don't want to add so much counterweight the tractor has more trouble going up the slopes?
Its a skid steer loader so ive been dropping it when going on the slopes so ive been hesitant to fill the tyres.

What do you guys recommend??
How much weight should i put at the back?

 

[teg]

...What do you guys recommend??
How much weight should i put at the back?

You really don't have *any* counter weight to speak of... Fill the tires with fluid - at least half way and use a lot more weight on the back- 500 lbs minimum.

Use the 6' wide bucket and cut that slope wider and dump the dirt at the bottom of the hill to make it less steep (actually, I would cut into the slope more... dumping / compacting the dirt at the bottom).

Don't worry about the tractor "working" more to get up the hills - it should do it with no problems as long as you are in the correct gear.

That seems like a pretty big 4in1 bucket - is that the correct size for that tractor?

 

[Todd727]

I imagine you are going to get lots of replies, but at first blush, it does appear that you were carrying the bucket higher than needed. That looks like a heavy four-way bucket, so you obviously are going to need more weight on the back. Was the bucket empty? If so, you are really going to be light when you are actually carrying something.

 

[k0ua]

Hey guys
First time posting here and I really need some help!
We have quite a steep block of land. Around 5 acres with the steepest part being 40 degrees or so.

I recently purchased a John Deere 4105 with a FEL to do some hobby farming / mowing. There were a few delivery delays for the FEL so at first I only had the tractor. She worked like a charm and I managed to mow all the lawn and get started ripping / tilling. FEL arrived and the whole dynamic changed.

It feels like the tractor actually has trouble going up the hill now? A lot more revs required and she seems unstable.

I'd never driven a tractor before but hydrostatic was simple enough. Did a good 30 hours before the FEL. I had no idea about counterweighting on the first day with the FEL and this happened ( photos )

I didn't get hurt but **** was I shaken up. The FEL is large at 6 foot and the path I cut was only 5 so it didn't fit lowered. I raised it and it just tipped forward.

I thought the ripper would be enough counterweight but it wasn't. The tyres arnt filled either as some have suggested.

I don't want to add so much counterweight the tractor has more trouble going up the slopes?
Its a skid steer loader so ive been dropping it when going on the slopes so ive been hesitant to fill the tyres.

What do you guys recommend??
How much weight should i put at the back?

OK first off is how much counterweight, you manual should tell you, but for that size tractor I would estimate 750 to 1000 lbs, and I would load the tires also. WW fluid/methonol or RV antifreeze or RimGuard . Now as for the loss of power while going up steep hills. Well lets talk hydro ranges.. First of all HI range is ONLY for flat ground and hi speed transport of the tractor unloaded. MED can be used for a lot of work, but if it is steep then LOW range is where you will stay. when going up a big hill rev it up to at least 2000 or more, and if the revs start to drop let off of the hydro pedal to go up the hill faster and easier.. thats right I said back off of the pedal and watch the revs climb. If you push down more on the pedal and the revs are falling you are not going to go any faster by pushing down more on the pedal, it is not an accelerator pedal it controls the angle of the swash plate in the hydro. Think of it as variable gearing if you like. So if you were going up a steep hill in MED or even HI and it was bogging down. Go up that hill in LOW. Good luck

James K0UA

 

[murphy1244]

Want more ballast? Buy a backhoe.

 

[k0ua]

Here is my ballast Barrell.. on Post #26 pictures I have made some modifications since, about 750 lbs without chains.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...94-rear-ballast-gentlemen-rear-ballast-3.html

James K0UA

 

[RoyJackson]

You do have the tractor back down on the 4 tires, right? Have you started it yet? Any problems?
You're lucky you didn't roll to the side with those front tires turned like that.

Add that 3PH weight...at least 600 lbs (270 kg) MINIMUM!
I'd also go with the loaded rear tires, but be advised that's more for stability then counterweighting the loader...but it does help some.
Adding weight isn't going to slow down the tractor, but that doesn't mean you don't want to slow down on slopes! Or up slopes...and across slopes!

BTW, You wrote:

I don't want to add so much counterweight the tractor has more trouble going up the slopes?

You should not be having any problems going up a reasonable slope (30 degrees or so) if you're in the right range and using the right pedal pressure. If you're in high range (the 4105 has two ranges, IIRC), use low range. And don't mash the pedal flat like you would in your car or truck...

 

[TripleR]

Can't beat what James and others have said, proper weight distribution is essential to use the FEL safely and efficiently; less weight on the back then less on the front and carry you bucket as low as practical. Sometimes this may be a foot or less and don't get in a hurry going down in case you need to drop the bucket. With time, you will learn how fast you can go and use the settings, weight, speed etc. properly. Until then, go slow and learn.

I have fluid and 1000+ on my 3PH for our L5030 and even with that, there are some sections I back down.

Glad you weren't injured and don't beat yourself up too bad, most of us have had OH HECK moments.

 

[lilranch2001]

All I can say is you are lucky!

You should have bought a lottery ticket as soon as you got off that tractor

 

[kennyd]

WOW!

If those pictures aren't a good case for rear ballast I don't know what is!

I am glad you and your machine is OK:thumbsup:

 

[lilranch2001]

would have been a good time to wax that tranny/rear end case though

 

[tcartwri]

Here is my ballast Barrell.. on Post #26 pictures I have made some modifications since, about 750 lbs without chains.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...94-rear-ballast-gentlemen-rear-ballast-3.html

James K0UA

I have the identical setup to James, except in a plastic rain barrel. Mine is pulled in tighter between the rear tires though. Very easy to make and cheap.

One thing no one mentioned is that you should be in 4x4 at all times with those slopes, and start down the slope in the range that the motor will act as the brake. Don't rely on the tractor brakes to slow you down if it gets away on you.

 

[MarkV]

Wow, I sure would have had to change my panties after that. Like the others have said you are way under counter balanced. Filling the tires on your property is a must. Even with filled tires I always use a heavy implement on the rear for loader work. Think of it like a teeter totter. Put the big guy on one side and the little guy is going to end up in the air every time.

Lack of power going up hill is a like James said. It is common for new hydrostatic users to apply more pedal when they need more power. We have all been doing it for years in our trucks. In this case less pedal equals more torque. It will get you up the hills. Also, never change gear ranges while on a slope. There is a lag time when you are in neutral and the tractor will free wheel you in a way you will not like.

There are no worries with loaded tires when you have the loader removed. Many ag tractors don't have a loader but use loaded tires for traction and stability. Depending on your year round climate it isn't hard to load your tires with environmentally safe anti-freeze and water at home. A search on the forum will bring up some good DIY discussions.

Welcome to the forum and I am glad you dodged the bullet on this one.

MarkV

 

[samofsweden]

Lucky you didnt hurt your self.
As said by almost every poster before, add an rear ballast.
And in the future (with the ballast at the rear) when you go downhill with maybe some load in the bucket, be prepaired to lower the bucket FAST, to aviod the situation you ended up in. Ive done the same with my tractors, but allways a hand on the FEL so I can correct when I feel its starts to go wrong.
You could self recovered youself by lower the FEL and tilt the bucket down.

But when you end up in this situation for your first time, you dont think allways smart and fast.

But we learn as we live:thumbsup:
/Sam

 

[Mike476]

Glad you avoided the worst case scenario, albeit barely, and were able to take pictures.

Suspect you'll be loading the tires and looking for a little more rear ballast, and has been said, not too many of us that haven't been in a similar situation so don't get too upset at yourself, important thing is to learn from it. :thumbsup:

Thanks for sharing, an excellent example of how quickly things can turn on you.

 

[devildog1]

Yes your quite lucky indeed. I can't offer any other great advice then whats been given already and I agree with it all. Just remember for future use of the fel, keep it as close to the ground as possible when carrying the bucket loaded, glad you are ok and thanks for the photos. We all make mistakes, hopefully after seeing your pics we'll all remember the advice given.
DevilDog

 

[schmism]

Its unfortunate you decided to tackle an advanced FEL job with little to no experience operating the new tractor with it.

So lessons to take away.

1) MORE counterweight
2) always keep the bucket as low to the ground as possible when moving, especially down hill, and double especially when moving cross hill.

One of the things you'll learn is that when moving down hill with a full bucket in the air, you want to keep a hand on the FEL lever and as soon as things start feeling light in the rear dump the FEL to float position. This keeps your pic from happening.


As for working harder to get up the hill, yes likely, you added like 1200 lbs of loader to the tractor, which would be like a third of the weight of the tractor before hand.

 

[thinggy42]

That seems like a pretty big 4in1 bucket - is that the correct size for that tractor?

I imagine its the right bucket, its the one the dealer provided me. Its australian manufactured. Ill attach a link to it.
LIFESTYLE 4-IN-1 BUCKET FOR COMPACT TRACTORS |

So its about a 300kg bucket! that plus the 300cx seems to be quit alot of weight at the front.

You do have the tractor back down on the 4 tires, right? Have you started it yet? Any problems?

No problems with the tractor, its running fine. Just havent been brave enough to go down that slope again! I was a lot more confident before this ( overconfident). This has been good for me im taking things ALOT slower and safer now.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Not much to add that hasn't already been well said. Your jeans will probably be alright after you or the Misses runs them through the wash a couple of times but you might want to save time and just bury the skivvies.
That is about as close as you can get without doing a full flop. You are a lucky man.

 

[JCByrd24]

I think the recommendations for counterweight are all very light. Given you bucket was empty and that happened, it will do the same thing loaded with only 600-800 lbs counter weight. Loaded tires would be an excellent start but 3PH ballast in the form of a heavy box blade or something will actually help take weight off the front tires too. These pictures tell me you probably need both.