Comparison JD 2210 vs. 1023E vs. 2305

[ChinaSailor]

Hi Everybody..

Last time I was here was about 8 years ago when I was purchasing my very first SCUT and you all were very, very helpful and I ultimately selected the JD Mdl 2210 w/ FEL, 56C and Front Blade over a Kubota.

And until yesterday I was extremely happy with the 2210 - as it did everything I needed it to do and more - and did it easily.

Until yesterday at only 560 hours, when I was mowing and backing up a slope the transmission crashed - reverse got locked up, gears grinding.

And when I changed pedals to go forward (down the slope) the machine freewheeled about 50' straight down (brakes didnt grip), into a drainage ditch, across a road, and down into the opposite ditch and onto my neighbors lawn.

Kept the wheels straight, lifted the masts so they wouldnt dig into the bottom of the slope at that speed, and luckilly no cars, trucks, people were crossing my path. Needless to say the pucker factor was high for about 3 seconds - but I was strapped in as always and just held on while ensuring a straight downward, though very fast run.

The 2210 goes forward, but no reverse - just locks up when trying.

Dealer said, obviously, the Hydromatic Trans crashed and could not provide an estimate in how much it could cost - $2k to $8k was his figure. And it would possibly be more cost-effective just to get a new JD 1023E and he would give me some trade-in for the 2210.

My residential property is hilly with various terrain angles and slopes, some very steep - which the dealer said was the ultimate cause of the transmission failure.

So my friends, any ideas????

I think if I can get a late model 2305 stripped I can at least use my 2210 attachments (FEL, 54C, Front Blade).. Then get the 2210 fixed and sell it, or sell it as-is.

Or, get the 1023E with FEL, MMM, Front Blade.

But my dealer says I should not expect much more than 600 hours because my property is putting alot of strain on the machines - and he said that he was surprised I got the hours that I did on the 2210..

Any suggestions would be most welcome.. including going to a different color tractor..

Also, I need a SCUT because of the terrain..

Any help would be appreciated..

Regards,

Mike

 

[TripleR]

We have a BX2660 and John Deere 2305; both are used on mixed flat and hilly terrain at different locations. Both only have about 400 hours, but our old BX2200 has about 800 and spent all its life mowing the same stuff with no problems.

The 2305 has not been as dependable as the Kubotas, but from reading posts by other owners, I suspect we just got one of those lemons that I imagine every maker has.

We really like our Kubota, but would probably go with a John Deere 1026R if we were in the market now. Don't know if that helps.

 

[dmrp6510]

With everybody trading 2305 for 1023/1026 I would think you could buy A low hour machine with no loader or mower fairly cheap what I would do is get a 2305 and then tear the trans apart myself and see what kind of parts you need also try your local transmission shop for the labor and you get the parts if you can't do it yourself

 

[dmrp6510]

The dealer just wants to sell you a new tractor and give you nothing for trade and then fix it for his parts cost and triple his profit

 

[Johndeere3720]

I honestly would look at the 1026R, you will get more options for around $1500 more. Trade in the 2210 or sell it as is on craigslist. I cant imagine that you will need a new tractor after every 600 hours of use, even with your given operating conditions. It will cost a bit but I would take the chance and use it as an excuse to upgrade machines. Just my :2cents:

 

[Carl Bert]

The tractor is not meant for hilly terrain and he is surprised it lasted 560 hours. So what does he recommend, a dozer? I have nothing but hilly terrain and never had any problems. I would check with another dealer, before making any decisions.

 

[ChinaSailor]

The dealer just wants to sell you a new tractor and give you nothing for trade and then fix it for his parts cost and triple his profit

I agree.

Talked to a car mechanic I am personal friends with and he said just to get a transmission and he would help install it (said its not rocket science stuff) but these HST are built in a way that you need to get in there, find the specific broken pieces/pumps/whatever, and repair them. As opposed to the auto industry where you can just buy a self contained plug n play transmission.

I've seen a 2210 with the transmission removed being repaired - not a pretty sight!

I was really really happy with the 2210 - the terrain was such I don't think a 2320 would have given me the tight maneuverability - I had woods, brush, builder trash, snow, turf, and almost 4 acres of steep slopes to contend with. It was also my first tractor so I misused and abused it to boot. While it only has 560 hours those were hard hours. Most of the heavy lifting has been done. But I was looking to get at least 2000-2500 hours on it, 15 years life. It is what it is.

Right now most of the work will be fine mowing on 50' slopes, 5x200' terraces, hauling around 45 yards of mulch at least once a year, hauling topsoil/dirt, castle rock/cement bags from time to time, occasional tree logs, snow removal.

So far it appears that a 1023e will run me $14400 w/ FEL and MMM. I can use the Front Blade of the 2210 on the 1023e. Dealer offered a $4500. trade on the 2210 with the 210 FEL and 54C MMM.

So the net cost will be $9900.

Anyone recommend getting the front weights? Use the 1023e with a rear balance bucket with some castlerock in it for rear traction?

There are a number of 2010/2011 low-hour 2305's around, most with some attachments, running between $8500-$12000 plus the cost to haul it. Plus I get their problems...

Again, I want to thank you all for the help which will allow me to make the best choice.

 

[s219]

If the JD dealer told me, with a straight face, that his products were only good for 600 hours and then tried to sell a replacement, I'd be shopping another brand. That's pretty darn cheesy/sleezy. I'm surprised you even need to ask for opinions.

 

[ChinaSailor]

Re: cheesy salesmans comments, going to another tractor mfgr ...

Yep, that was my initial response as well but having been in business for myself over the past 25 years if I ever dropped a vendor because they were cheesy, sleazy, greedy or uninterested I would not have made it through the first 12 months, I try not to let my emotional reactions dictate good or at least the better business decisions...

That being said if I stay Green then I need to stay with the local dealer, esp since they have mobile/home service for all warranty work and repairs. Selecting a different Green dealer would be problematic at best.

Could my terrain be THAT hard on the tractor's transmission? The most stress is probably from fine mowing where I go down the hill forward and then up the hill rearward.

I had all four tires on the 2210 foam filled to a) provide more weight on the slopes to help the tires grab, b) lower center of gravity, and c) the place was filled with builders debris and didn't want to be a nail magnet.

I may have to get weights/tires filled on my new machine. Perhaps the extra weight plus the inclines contributed to the crashed transmission with such low hours.

Any machine/dealer I select will have to have local home servicing - which narrows down the field. Even the local Kubota dealer doesn't have at home mobile service.

I will be trying out the 1023E today, maybe get them to deliver one with a two or three week test/trial period.

I don't really see that much difference between a 1023E and a 1026 to really justify the extra $... However I am considering a 2320 but have to see how big they are physically to make sure it would work on the property, and will take a look at that today as well.

Will also be going over to the Orange dealer to see what they have and if they have added at-home service calls.

What do you all think I could reasonably get for the inoperable 2210 w/ FEL, 54C and Front Blade?

To be honest I would REALLY like to get it fixed, but... I do have hydraulics and pressure as the FEL masts lift that means at least the pump works, the 54C works so that tells me the PTO is working, and the machine does go forward though I can sometimes hear grinding, that means at least something is working. But to be sure the reverse gears are gone and the hydrostatic is shot since I "freewheeled" down the slope...

Anyhow, again.. thank you for your help, advice and comments.. I will probably make a decision next week and use the rest of this week and weekend to collect information...

It's all good..

Re's

Mike

 

[ChinaSailor]

Continuing saga...

Went to the Kubota dealer today... After I described the property, the slopes, angles and inclines - most greater than 30 degrees he opted out and said that in good conscience they wouldn't sell me one of their tractors, and was surprised that I was even able to do the work that I've done for the past 7 years...

Went over to the JD dealer to see the 1023E/1026 and while nice I was not overly impressed.. I think the H120 FEL is an improvement over the 2210/210 loader (I didnt like the lower end D120)... BUT, the two types of MMM they have for this model SUCK, and not in a good way.. Even the dealer rep couldnt get either type on/off the machines in anything less than 20 minutes, and on a 3rd machine he just gave up.. Looks like I would just need a 1023E adaptor to use my quick connect Front Blade.. Dealer said he would configure a 1023E just to my specs and then hve me come down to do a demo to see how easy it should be.. but unless JD has an epiphany the 1023E is out.. I looked at the 2320 (2230?) but it is too big for the property, center of gravity is too high.

So, unless there is an epiphany I may end up having to get the 2210 tranny repaired as an only option....

Still looking for a decent stripped down 2305....

And guys, that MMM for the 1023/1026 really sucks bad and even the slightest mistake will cause something to bend/break which will cost big bucks to get fixed.. the tolerances are way too tight when connecting the MMM with the tractor... that is the achilles heel on the Series 1...

IMHO ofcourse..

Mike

 

[rockshaft]

I can't say as I've seen such harsh criticism of the MMM for the new 1-series.
I don't have a dog in this fight, as I don't need a mower. But I'm sure you'll get some differing opinions on the mower deck.
Sounds like you have quite a property if you have a hard time getting a dealer to sell you a machine (and stand behind it)! Sure sucks you didn't get more hours out of that 2210 tranny.

Continuing saga...

Went to the Kubota dealer today... After I described the property, the slopes, angles and inclines - most greater than 30 degrees he opted out and said that in good conscience they wouldn't sell me one of their tractors, and was surprised that I was even able to do the work that I've done for the past 7 years...

Went over to the JD dealer to see the 1023E/1026 and while nice I was not overly impressed.. I think the H120 FEL is an improvement over the 2210/210 loader (I didnt like the lower end D120)... BUT, the two types of MMM they have for this model SUCK, and not in a good way.. Even the dealer rep couldnt get either type on/off the machines in anything less than 20 minutes, and on a 3rd machine he just gave up.. Looks like I would just need a 1023E adaptor to use my quick connect Front Blade.. Dealer said he would configure a 1023E just to my specs and then hve me come down to do a demo to see how easy it should be.. but unless JD has an epiphany the 1023E is out.. I looked at the 2320 (2230?) but it is too big for the property, center of gravity is too high.

So, unless there is an epiphany I may end up having to get the 2210 tranny repaired as an only option....

Still looking for a decent stripped down 2305....

And guys, that MMM for the 1023/1026 really sucks bad and even the slightest mistake will cause something to bend/break which will cost big bucks to get fixed.. the tolerances are way too tight when connecting the MMM with the tractor... that is the achilles heel on the Series 1...

IMHO ofcourse..

Mike

 

[Gods Country]

OK I'll bite.

Someone explain to me why a scut can't survive living on hilly terrain?

I live in northern Pa which is nothing but steep terrain. I'm talking almost mt goat territory:laughing:

Everyone around here seems to own one.

I realize the dealer is full of crap. I'm curious if anyone can justify his comments....even remotely


On a side note isn't it usually a relief valve or something similar when one direction function but the other does not?

 

[Gator6x4]

OK I'll bite.

Someone explain to me why a scut can't survive living on hilly terrain?

I live in northern Pa which is nothing but steep terrain. I'm talking almost mt goat territory:laughing:

Everyone around here seems to own one.

I realize the dealer is full of crap. I'm curious if anyone can justify his comments....even remotely


On a side note isn't it usually a relief valve or something similar when one direction function but the other does not?

I don't think many goats could survive on 30 plus degree slopes. I am surprised the engine did not go before the transmission. I think the Kubota Dealer made a wise decision to opt out of a sale. Most or not all motorized equipment do not like continual exposure to slopes or hills over 10-15 degrees. I personally would not mow slopes of 30 plus degrees.

 

[ChinaSailor]

First, thanks for the comments... I would certainly like to hear hands-on comments on the 1023E's two types of MMM decks. We could just not get them to properly mount/dismount. I think the 64" wide deck appeared to be the easiest since it was larger and had more weight and didnt keep on sliding on the ground (flat turf, gravel, concrete) than the 54".

Everybody here in the neighborhood is green (tractor and mower) except for one holdout who went orange cuz he got a good deal second hand private sale..

I have the most challenging property, most of the others are all flat, as my home was built into the face of a steep sided cliff for the view of overlooking a large body of water.

The rear of the property has 3 4hx6wx200L concrete reinforced terraces and 2 10hx8wx200L earthen terraces, with the top terrace being of equal height to the ridgeline of a large 2 story colonial. The front of the property sits 50' back from the road and about 35' above it.

As a side note, I also bought a self-propelled Honda lawn mower years ago (because some slopes and terraces I couldnt get a tractor on too steep or not wide enough) over a Briggs-Stratton based mower since the B-S engine lubrication was gravity-based which would make sections of the engine not have any lubrication for long periods. The Honda's engine has an oil pump which would better lubricate the engine on sustained inclines.

I even brought this potential problem to the JD rep's attention where the 2210's engine and tranny may not be getting lubricated properly when on the inclines and slopes. Said he understood my concern (he's been to my property so he knows the terrain I'm dealing with) but he didn't think it was a contributing factor to the trashed tranny.

But, for the sake of 'truthiness' in seeking your help I forgot to emphasize that all 4 wheels of the 2210 were foam filled for the extra weight to a) lower the center of gravity, b) let the industrial tires get a better bite into the turf, c) there was a significant amount of builder debris and the rubber tires were a nail and sharp object magnet.

I want to give the 2210 some benefit of the doubt, ie; challenging terrain and weighted tires.

Perhaps now that the property has been landscaped and the rough heavy lifting has been done, it is now just a matter of maintenance - fine mowing about 2.5 acres, 45yds of mulch every Spring, etc etc I can get away with just having the rear tires liquid filled halfway to give me some lower center of gravity and rear traction. Maybe have the front tires half filled as well.

Any ideas?

I don't want to be crashing any more trannys or freewheeling 50' down a 35-40 degree slope into a ditch, up the ditch, across a residential road, down a ditch into my neighbors property...

BTW, I can vouch that the 2210 can do a wheely even with foam filled front tires!

My advice is to strap in and keep the tires as absolutely straight as possible and to hold on for a wild 3 second ride.. I would have only jumped off if a vehicle was coming down the street...

Mike

 

[Carl Bert]

OK I'll bite.

Someone explain to me why a scut can't survive living on hilly terrain?

I live in northern Pa which is nothing but steep terrain. I'm talking almost mt goat territory:laughing:

Everyone around here seems to own one.

I realize the dealer is full of crap. I'm curious if anyone can justify his comments....even remotely

On a side note isn't it usually a relief valve or something similar when one direction function but the other does not?

I have to agree, this really does sound like a joke. "Tractors are not made for hilly terrain" but better yet, the dealer rather not sell him a tractor, due to the hilly terrain. Where is this fantasyland? Do me a favor and ask them what they do recommend you use to cut your grass.

 

[Dirtworker]

First, thanks for the comments... I would certainly like to hear hands-on comments on the 1023E's two types of MMM decks. We could just not get them to properly mount/dismount. I think the 64" wide deck appeared to be the easiest since it was larger and had more weight and didnt keep on sliding on the ground (flat turf, gravel, concrete) than the 54".

Everybody here in the neighborhood is green (tractor and mower) except for one holdout who went orange cuz he got a good deal second hand private sale..

I have the most challenging property, most of the others are all flat, as my home was built into the face of a steep sided cliff for the view of overlooking a large body of water.

The rear of the property has 3 4hx6wx200L concrete reinforced terraces and 2 10hx8wx200L earthen terraces, with the top terrace being of equal height to the ridgeline of a large 2 story colonial. The front of the property sits 50' back from the road and about 35' above it.

As a side note, I also bought a self-propelled Honda lawn mower years ago (because some slopes and terraces I couldnt get a tractor on too steep or not wide enough) over a Briggs-Stratton based mower since the B-S engine lubrication was gravity-based which would make sections of the engine not have any lubrication for long periods. The Honda's engine has an oil pump which would better lubricate the engine on sustained inclines.

I even brought this potential problem to the JD rep's attention where the 2210's engine and tranny may not be getting lubricated properly when on the inclines and slopes. Said he understood my concern (he's been to my property so he knows the terrain I'm dealing with) but he didn't think it was a contributing factor to the trashed tranny.

But, for the sake of 'truthiness' in seeking your help I forgot to emphasize that all 4 wheels of the 2210 were foam filled for the extra weight to a) lower the center of gravity, b) let the industrial tires get a better bite into the turf, c) there was a significant amount of builder debris and the rubber tires were a nail and sharp object magnet.

I want to give the 2210 some benefit of the doubt, ie; challenging terrain and weighted tires.

Perhaps now that the property has been landscaped and the rough heavy lifting has been done, it is now just a matter of maintenance - fine mowing about 2.5 acres, 45yds of mulch every Spring, etc etc I can get away with just having the rear tires liquid filled halfway to give me some lower center of gravity and rear traction. Maybe have the front tires half filled as well.

Any ideas?

I don't want to be crashing any more trannys or freewheeling 50' down a 35-40 degree slope into a ditch, up the ditch, across a residential road, down a ditch into my neighbors property...

BTW, I can vouch that the 2210 can do a wheely even with foam filled front tires!

My advice is to strap in and keep the tires as absolutely straight as possible and to hold on for a wild 3 second ride.. I would have only jumped off if a vehicle was coming down the street...

Mike

I have a 1026r with a mechanical 60D. I have no issues with it, but does require me laying on the floor to install the pto. I am impressed how easy it is. I run over it in the barn with a concrete floor. Does not slip more than an 1" max. Either way, it is much much easier to install than the X500 deck.
I also have a 30 degree or so pitched hill. I went up up with a load in the FEL, can't say I will make a habit of it.
I did get the rear tires loaded for 78$. Also purchased a FEL tooth bar to help reduce stress on it. My personal opinion so far with it is that it's the jack of all trades, master of none. Good machine though.

 

[ChinaSailor]

I have to agree, this really does sound like a joke. "Tractors are not made for hilly terrain" but better yet, the dealer rather not sell him a tractor, due to the hilly terrain. Where is this fantasyland? Do me a favor and ask them what they do recommend you use to cut your grass.

The Kubota dealer who I talked with today (30 years at the dealership - maybe even part owner) was the one who declined the sale based upon the terrain - we even did a Google 3D view of my property on his computer so he could better ascertain my description....

His recommendation was to use a friggen weed whacker!

This is no joke gentlemen, which is why I returned to the forum for some help and ideas..... Freewheeling on a blown HST tranny is not a joke... Pissing away $15K on a 2210 with only 560 hours isn't funny to me...

Mike

 

[ChinaSailor]

I have a 1026r with a mechanical 60D. I have no issues with it, but does require me laying on the floor to install the pto. I am impressed how easy it is. I run over it in the barn with a concrete floor. Does not slip more than an 1" max. Either way, it is much much easier to install than the X500 deck.
I also have a 30 degree or so pitched hill. I went up up with a load in the FEL, can't say I will make a habit of it.
I did get the rear tires loaded for 78$. Also purchased a FEL tooth bar to help reduce stress on it. My personal opinion so far with it is that it's the jack of all trades, master of none. Good machine though.

Now this is interesting! The MMM was the reason I didn't get the 1023 today as it seemed almost impossible to properly/easily mount/dismount - and this was by an experienced dealer rep...

I am used to the 54C on the 2210 - but both of the MMMs for the 1023/1026 were like intolerable with them just skidding repeatedly both on the mount and dismount - the left/right catches would not either click into place when mounting or allow the tractor to slide out when dismounting..

I would like to hear more about your easy experiences - maybe your dealer prepped the pieces somehow making them easier to operate..

Mike

 

[GreenWannabe]

From reading on another forum, which specializes in Green Tractors, and the majority of posts are about subcompacts (1026R in particular), it seems that many Deere dealers are not really aware of how the drive over mower, especially with Auto Connect, have to be set up and properly adjusted. There have been issues reported with not clicking into place and with the pto being at an improper angle. I believe most if not all of them have been corrected with proper adjustment, and in some cases a little modification. Most of the users there seem very happy with them once adjusted and set up.

 

[Dirtworker]

I would like to hear more about your easy experiences - maybe your dealer prepped the pieces somehow making them easier to operate..

Mike

The dealer told me that the auto connect was finicky, and recommend the mechanical. It is very simple to run over and hook up.
I believe the 60"D helps as it is heavier. There is not a whole lot to adjust other than the front connect bar. I have not had to.
It works both on/off on the dirt driveway and barn concrete floor. You see people complain but considering the number of them sold, it's only a handful. Check out you tube, people are doing it with ease.