diesel prices

[Don87]

I remember several times that gas station owners were charged and convicted of price gouging in my area and NC.. And I'll take issue with you on the meeting our VP back then had with the 6 oil executives that has been kept hidden from the public by executive privilege. In the days following that meeting is when fuel prices took off like a rocket. I think what happened in that meeting would answer a lot of questions.

You want lower fuel prices then break those 6 top oil companies up in to 50-60 companies and you'll have competition again in oil and gas. Until that happens nothing will change except it'll get higher. It's called price fixing and as of 2003 it's legal.

I know what's going on and what to expect for the most part. I lived in the 50's and on. We didn't waste back then because we didn't have money to waste. We raised what we needed. We didn't go to town every week or every month. We went to town 2 times a year. I never ate in a restaurant till I was 18 years old. I'd never seen or used a commode till I was in the 4th grade. Yes we had running water at school but the johnny house was in the woods. Keep the path shoveled out in the winter for when you had to go. I wore clothes with patches on them to school. I had my first slice of store bought bread in 1958.

So to add to your fear let me mention food. You think fuel is a problem? All those folks that were third world countries have money now. And BTW food is on the world market now too. Won't be long you'll be on here blaming someone for the high price of food. Iran just bought a large shipment of wheat from us. Yes the USA just sold wheat to Iran. Everything we have is for sale to the highest bidder. How much are you willing to pay? Or should you start preparing? You might want to buy some steaks while they're still cheap. After ethanol was mandated beef inventories in the US fell to 1952 levels. So soon you can cry your way to the grocery store about what it cost in fuel to get there and cry your way back home about what you just spent for that food. You might want to take some of the time you use on those links and use it running a garden tiller and get ready for canning season. The links you post may be right or may not be right. What I just told you is already here. Dig in man. When something worries me I do something about it.

You have nothing to 'take issue' with me on. I've only relayed factual information to those who desire to get informed.

The massive tax increases that I linked to above will devastate our economy and country. Not to mention the fuel increases, along with electricity rates going way up.

5 coal fired power plants are shutting down here in PA. due to new EPA guidiles(all Obama appointees), and remember.........Obama said "under my plan, electricity prices will necessarily skyrocket".

Must go to work now, won't be back till Friday.

 

[Charolais]

You have nothing to 'take issue' with me on. I've only relayed factual information to those who desire to get informed.

The massive tax increases that I linked to above will devastate our economy and country. Not to mention the fuel increases, along with electricity rates going way up.

5 coal fired power plants are shutting down here in PA. due to new EPA guidiles(all Obama appointees), and remember.........Obama said "under my plan, electricity prices will necessarily skyrocket".

Must go to work now, won't be back till Friday.

We have 1 wood burning power plant that's been running for 10 years. Another coal plant being converted to wood and a new wood power plant being built within 25 miles of where I live. Creating job with renewable fuel and farmers get the byproduct at no cost delivered. I'd say we made a good change. Grow trees, jobs to cut and haul trees, make power that's cleaner than coal and good paying jobs for power plant employees. All meeting the new EPA rules. Heck we may sell some power to your state. We met the change head on. It's also boosting timber prices for local land owners too. We didn't fear the change. We made it positive. Thanks Obama. We don't have to bury all that coal ash now that can pollute our water supplies. Never see any smoke out the stacks on the wood burners either.

 

[RaydaKub]

I have one of those 'big' pickup trucks too. Difference is, I use mine only when necessary to haul something, not to impress the next door neighbor or boost my testosterone level. My normal ride gets 30 mpg, a small car and it's 4wd. Go figure....

Bully for you.

I have 3 vehicles on the road. 2 cars that get in the upper 20's for mileage. But the 3rd vehicle is my truck. We use the cars as much as possible instead of the truck, but when you have 4 people going 4 places in 3 vehicles, the truck picks up its share of miles also. Most of the time, I probably don't need my truck, much as I love how it sits and rides (actually a full size SUV). But there are times that I do need it. You seem to have resolved your issue by spending more money on multiple insurance policies and letting the value of the truck drop unused. I have chosen to spend my money on gas and not take the hit on insurance, upkeep, and purchase cost of an additional vehicle.

If I could afford to have a moped to go to work, a little car for other errands, a van to carry the church youth group, a pickup to carry my lumber home, a decent sedan (in which my 6'6" son can sit comfortably) to drive to church, and a motorhome for a vacation, I would and I would tailor every single ride to the present need.

But I choose not to tie up that much capital in vehicles, upkeep, and insurance. My driving an SUV does not equate to a boost to my testosterone.

 

[5030]

Bully for you.

I have 3 vehicles on the road. 2 cars that get in the upper 20's for mileage. But the 3rd vehicle is my truck. We use the cars as much as possible instead of the truck, but when you have 4 people going 4 places in 3 vehicles, the truck picks up its share of miles also. Most of the time, I probably don't need my truck, much as I love how it sits and rides (actually a full size SUV). But there are times that I do need it. You seem to have resolved your issue by spending more money on multiple insurance policies and letting the value of the truck drop unused. I have chosen to spend my money on gas and not take the hit on insurance, upkeep, and purchase cost of an additional vehicle.

If I could afford to have a moped to go to work, a little car for other errands, a van to carry the church youth group, a pickup to carry my lumber home, a decent sedan (in which my 6'6" son can sit comfortably) to drive to church, and a motorhome for a vacation, I would and I would tailor every single ride to the present need.

But I choose not to tie up that much capital in vehicles, upkeep, and insurance. My driving an SUV does not equate to a boost to my testosterone.

No car payments here. Paid cash for everyone new. Far as insurance, the pickup is a farm plated vehicle with 6/6 coverage. 6 on during growing season, 6 off for the winter.....and it's a business deductible expense... as is fuel and maintenance.... My Caddy is 6/6 too. It don't get driven in the winter. It's a garage queen.

My daily driver is a sport ute as well.

In the summer (weather permitting) I ride my one of my motorcycles. All get at least 45mpg and the little one gets 70.

I'll be elated when it warms up and I can ride a bike. I love 70 per gallon.

 

[rsewill]

President Obama has cut taxes more than any president in modern history. Only those making $200k will see their income taxes go up next year if the Republicans accept the president's plan, otherwise most all of us will see a tax increase .

Gas is sold at no profit to refiners, they make their money on everything else. The USA is awash in refined products, so much so that they are our largest export. We are getting screwed by Big Oil and Wall Street speculators that the president would live to rein in but the Republicans stand in the way.

Keep driving your big vehicles. Look at it as entertainment. But don't cry about the price of gas being sold by refiners at cost. Fuel prices are simply reflecting the much improved economy, here and abroad.

 

[5030]

We have 1 wood burning power plant that's been running for 10 years. Another coal plant being converted to wood and a new wood power plant being built within 25 miles of where I live. Creating job with renewable fuel and farmers get the byproduct at no cost delivered. I'd say we made a good change. Grow trees, jobs to cut and haul trees, make power that's cleaner than coal and good paying jobs for power plant employees. All meeting the new EPA rules. Heck we may sell some power to your state. We met the change head on. It's also boosting timber prices for local land owners too. We didn't fear the change. We made it positive. Thanks Obama. We don't have to bury all that coal ash now that can pollute our water supplies. Never see any smoke out the stacks on the wood burners either.

You still are emitting unburned hydrocarbons and you still make fly ash that has to be disposed of in a low level hazardous landfill, despite what you perceive....or what your local politicians tell you.

You might not 'see' any visible particulates in the stack emissions but the Co and the Nox emissions are there nonetheless.

Your wood fired boilers to make steam for generation are gasifiers where the products of combustion, in this case volatile high temperature gasses, are re-burned above the firebox in what's termed a gasifier arch, however they aren't 100% efficient at burning all the volatile gasses, in fact, about 80% get oxidized and the other 20% go out the stack after passing through a precipitative and cyclone filtering system to pull off the fly ash, plus, all the primary fuel in the firebox makes ashes and clinkers and that's all termed low level hazardous waste too.

In actuality, you make as much, if not more landfill materials (from a bio-fuel gasifier) because the fly ash and the cinders from burning coal can be added to Portland cement as a filler, whereas ash, clinkers and fly ash from burning wood and by-products can't be used for anything, except low level hazardous waste taking up space in a landfill....

Being environmentally correct is more about knowing what the end results will be and not about what local government tells you.

I'm telling you because I know firsthand... I work on it (the boiler).....

Your comment about EPA rules shows just how ill-informed you are. The EPA rules, for the most part, are written by people who know zip about the very things they are attempting to regulate. I see that first hand as well. When we have an inspection (EPA) most times you have to lead the inspector by the hand because they don't know a clarifier from a boiler feed water pump. Their only concern is stack emissions and even on that we provide the AQ data because they don't know how to properly sample the stack gas for regulated emissions. It's your wonderful gummit hard at work....sucking up your tax dollars. Didn't some aspiring politician once say.... "Listen to the sucking sound'???

I know about gasifier high and low pressure steam boilers running on renewable resources. My company operates a 300 horsepower Scotch Back Bio-Fuel system so I know what pollutants it produces. The 40 yard roll off outside the steam plant building with the haz-mat placards isn't about a parking place nor is the bobcat that dumps the remnants from the firebox de-stoker or from the cyclone precipitation system every few hours just there for something for the operator to do......

I know you don't know the difference between 'Scotch Back' and Scotch Tape but what you need to know is that being green isn't all it's cracked up to be and your central government is hard at work, 24/7, piling on the BS so you'll 'think' it's all good.

It isn't.

Wake up and smell the roses.....

 

[AKfish]

Wake up and smell the roses.....

You had alot to say... But, really WHAT did you say?

Everything's broken.. nothing really works the way it's supposed to.. everybody lies.. politicians and government are bad..

Guess we should all go eat worms!

And keep sending money and blood to the Middle East - that's the giant sucking sound you hear!

Of course, we could also hope that our towns, cities and neighborhoods were like China - no EPA there... with 160 kids sickened and dying from lead poisoning!

AKfish

 

[Charolais]

You still are emitting unburned hydrocarbons and you still make fly ash that has to be disposed of in a low level hazardous landfill, despite what you perceive....or what your local politicians tell you.

You might not 'see' any visible particulates in the stack emissions but the Co and the Nox emissions are there nonetheless.

Your wood fired boilers to make steam for generation are gasifiers where the products of combustion, in this case volatile high temperature gasses, are re-burned above the firebox in what's termed a gasifier arch, however they aren't 100% efficient at burning all the volatile gasses, in fact, about 80% get oxidized and the other 20% go out the stack after passing through a precipitative and cyclone filtering system to pull off the fly ash, plus, all the primary fuel in the firebox makes ashes and clinkers and that's all termed low level hazardous waste too.

In actuality, you make as much, if not more landfill materials (from a bio-fuel gasifier) because the fly ash and the cinders from burning coal can be added to Portland cement as a filler, whereas ash, clinkers and fly ash from burning wood and by-products can't be used for anything, except low level hazardous waste taking up space in a landfill....

Being environmentally correct is more about knowing what the end results will be and not about what local government tells you.

I'm telling you because I know firsthand... I work on it (the boiler).....

Your comment about EPA rules shows just how ill-informed you are. The EPA rules, for the most part, are written by people who know zip about the very things they are attempting to regulate. I see that first hand as well. When we have an inspection (EPA) most times you have to lead the inspector by the hand because they don't know a clarifier from a boiler feed water pump. Their only concern is stack emissions and even on that we provide the AQ data because they don't know how to properly sample the stack gas for regulated emissions. It's your wonderful gummit hard at work....sucking up your tax dollars. Didn't some aspiring politician once say.... "Listen to the sucking sound'???

I know about gasifier high and low pressure steam boilers running on renewable resources. My company operates a 300 horsepower Scotch Back Bio-Fuel system so I know what pollutants it produces. The 40 yard roll off outside the steam plant building with the haz-mat placards isn't about a parking place nor is the bobcat that dumps the remnants from the firebox de-stoker or from the cyclone precipitation system every few hours just there for something for the operator to do......

I know you don't know the difference between 'Scotch Back' and Scotch Tape but what you need to know is that being green isn't all it's cracked up to be and your central government is hard at work, 24/7, piling on the BS so you'll 'think' it's all good.

It isn't.

Wake up and smell the roses.....

I'm sure I don't know all the details about a wood burning or coal power plant. So you be the expert there and I'll be the expert spreading free wood ash. 2.5 tons of wood ash equals 1 ton of lime. Hardly a cattle farm in this area that doesn't use it. Can't use coal ash, it'll kill all the grass. Yes I'm sure something has to go to the land fill. It always does.

By burning OUR wood we get the money for it local. The logger sells the logs and chips the leftovers and he pays his men, buys equipment and hauls wood chips to the power plant. Then we have the LOCAL company that also hauls wood byproducts to the power plant and has the contract of hauling the wood ash to the farms. They get paid and buy equipment. The farmers get the ash and save a lot of money not having to buy lime and hire it spread at $40-$50 a ton spread. Some farmers hire out to spread wood ash to other farmers and that money stays LOCAL too. So those trees wind up back on the land and every one is happy in my LOCAL area. Nice to not have to have the fuel shipped in several hundred miles and all that money going out of state in most cases. EPA and DEQ must be OK with it or we wouldn't be doing it. Power company wouldn't be refitting this coal power plant to wood burning just to spend money. So we'll plant trees, sell trees, spread ash on the land where the trees are planted in some cases and keep it all local and sell our product to out of state folks too.

 

[Herkypilot]

President Obama has cut taxes more than any president in modern history. Only those making $200k will see their income taxes go up next year if the Republicans accept the president's plan, otherwise most all of us will see a tax increase .

Gas is sold at no profit to refiners, they make their money on everything else. The USA is awash in refined products, so much so that they are our largest export. We are getting screwed by Big Oil and Wall Street speculators that the president would live to rein in but the Republicans stand in the way.

OK, I'm raising the Bull$hit flag on this one. Too much Kookaid being consumed. Prove your statements and I'll back off, but don't drop those political talking points and not expect to get challenged Pure left wing rhetoric.

 

[RaydaKub]

President Obama has cut taxes more than any president in modern history. Only those making $200k will see their income taxes go up next year if the Republicans accept the president's plan, otherwise most all of us will see a tax increase .

Gas is sold at no profit to refiners, they make their money on everything else. The USA is awash in refined products, so much so that they are our largest export. We are getting screwed by Big Oil and Wall Street speculators that the president would live to rein in but the Republicans stand in the way.

OK, I'm raising the Bull flag on this one. Too much Kookaid being consumed. Prove your statements and I'll back off, but don't drop those political talking points and not expect to get challenged Pure left wing rhetoric.

Amen! You think Big Oil is ripping you off. Their profit margin has remained a constant 9% for over 30 years. The gov't makes more on a gallon of gas than the oil companies do. ExxonMobile is the largest company in the US and is absolutely dwarfed by the really big guys.
World's Largest Oil and Gas Companies

They have to try to compete and buy oil on a world market from the really big guys and they still get it done and you likely have a gas station within a few miles of whereever you are. They do it every day, every year. They have all the risk and only a portion of the reward. Those "outrageous" profits are the result of outrageous investment. Do you have a 401k that has made any money? Then you are, by definition, part of the problem. How much did last night's beer cost you? $3-$4 a bottle? And you think gas is too expensive? Ask yourself which is more difficult to provide to you at the local convenience store.

As for Obama's tax cuts, are you aware that if you sell your home after 2012, there is a 3.8% sales tax on the gains to pay for the health care bill? If you've been in your home for 30 years and finally sell it with a gain of $400k, you get a tax bill of $15,200 on that gain. Nice for seniors when they downsize!

Yeah, there were some tax cuts. Like he cut the capital gains tax for small business. News flash: small businesses don't pay capital gains tax because they aren't selling off stuff that would appreciate in value!

 

[oldballs]

I can remember when gasoline was 19-25 cents per gallon. And I can't add anything to this discussion. But i appreciate you fellas taking the time to discuss it here. It makes for good reading and thought. Thanks

 

[RayCo]

This problem is easily fixed. The government has already devalued the dollar to the point that a gallon of fuel has these new numerical values associated with them. If we want a lower numerical value, Congress can simply legislate the devaluation of a gallon, such that what we call a quart today, will be renamed to gallon. Then, we'll be paying only $1.25/gallon!

 

[Ductape]

This problem is easily fixed. The government has already devalued the dollar to the point that a gallon of fuel has these new numerical values associated with them. If we want a lower numerical value, Congress can simply legislate the devaluation of a gallon, such that what we call a quart today, will be renamed to gallon. Then, we'll be paying only $1.25/gallon!

I'm half surprised they haven't done this already. Anyone noticed how much volume has decreased in the packages of food we buy.... yet prices remain the same ??

 

[5030]

I'm half surprised they haven't done this already. Anyone noticed how much volume has decreased in the packages of food we buy.... yet prices remain the same ??

I go to the supermarket with my wife bi-weekly and I haven't seen any reduction in volume but maybe that's because we can actually read the label and buy by weight, not volume.....

Prices aren't the same. They are going up.....

$3.70 unleaded, $4.02 diesel this morning.....

 

[5030]

I'm sure I don't know all the details about a wood burning or coal power plant. So you be the expert there and I'll be the expert spreading free wood ash. 2.5 tons of wood ash equals 1 ton of lime. Hardly a cattle farm in this area that doesn't use it. Can't use coal ash, it'll kill all the grass. Yes I'm sure something has to go to the land fill. It always does.

By burning OUR wood we get the money for it local. The logger sells the logs and chips the leftovers and he pays his men, buys equipment and hauls wood chips to the power plant. Then we have the LOCAL company that also hauls wood byproducts to the power plant and has the contract of hauling the wood ash to the farms. They get paid and buy equipment. The farmers get the ash and save a lot of money not having to buy lime and hire it spread at $40-$50 a ton spread. Some farmers hire out to spread wood ash to other farmers and that money stays LOCAL too. So those trees wind up back on the land and every one is happy in my LOCAL area. Nice to not have to have the fuel shipped in several hundred miles and all that money going out of state in most cases. EPA and DEQ must be OK with it or we wouldn't be doing it. Power company wouldn't be refitting this coal power plant to wood burning just to spend money. So we'll plant trees, sell trees, spread ash on the land where the trees are planted in some cases and keep it all local and sell our product to out of state folks too.

................I suppose you think that coal is mined by the tooth fairy and Santa Claus hauls it to the power plant in his sleigh......

They are refitting because it makes more sense to appease public sentiment than fight it. After all, the public is their customers..., not that the public, in general is very smart. Look what the public has foistered in Republican Candidates for 2012... I rest my case.:laughing:

Your wood fired power plant will do fine for the next 4 years....under Obama.

Per chance do you know how long it takes to grow a tree to cutting size for your power plant?? Bet not.

 

[devildog1]

Changing presidents will not change a thing!! Although obama is sitting right next to jimmy for the title of the worst of the worst, my opinion only. The only real change that can occur is if what happened back in 1776 happens once again!! Congress ,senate and ALL government elected officials do not care about any of us, they just want the easy street of elected office. Like they say "wake up and smell the coffee". We're Fracked!!! Oh Diesel here is $4.25.9
DevilDog

 

[Charolais]

................I suppose you think that coal is mined by the tooth fairy and Santa Claus hauls it to the power plant in his sleigh......

They are refitting because it makes more sense to appease public sentiment than fight it. After all, the public is their customers..., not that the public, in general is very smart. Look what the public has foistered in Republican Candidates for 2012... I rest my case.:laughing:

Your wood fired power plant will do fine for the next 4 years....under Obama.

Per chance do you know how long it takes to grow a tree to cutting size for your power plant?? Bet not.

I don't think we have to worry about trees here. We have more forest land now than in the 70's. Here's a link to give you an idea what we have. Tree Crops for Marginal Farmland: Loblolly Pine - Home - Virginia Cooperative Extension

Yes I have an idea how long it takes to grow a tree. In this area some pines are thinned at 7-9 years. Cut for pulpwood as early as 17 years. Saw logs from 20 on up. This area has been supporting 3 OSB mills since 1995. Those 3 mills produce between 4 and 5 million board ft. per day together. All the left overs from making OSB is either burned at the mill or the power plant/plants soon. We also get some wood from northen NC because it's within range of our mills. We also have a chipping mill that's used just for paper right in the middle of the OSB mills. Then we have 8 local saw mills that deal in hardwood and export hardwood. Almost forgot there's one plywood mill just over the border in NC. too. Most of the wood that goes to the power plant is what use to be left on the ground to rot from timber harvest. After most timber harvest now there's little to be done ahead of replant.

Once we lost tobacco we turned to trees and the industry soon followed. It may happen but it's a little hard to outsource an OSB mill.We use up to 130 loads of wood per day. I make my living at one of those mills. Been there 18 years and even in a hard hit home building market we're still running. We don't drill baby drill. We cut baby cut and plant baby plant.

 

[DABSGT]

I think you might want to check your facts there.

A quick google search shows that domestic oil production under the current administration has increased 11%.

All of which dates back to the G. W. Bush administration. If we are to convert to alternate fuel then those of this administration should find a cost effective choice rather than force price up on oil before it is available. Drill baby drill is ok with me if the market is flooded price only has one way to go, and oil company's have no excuse for high price.

 

[AKfish]

All of which dates back to the G. W. Bush administration. If we are to convert to alternate fuel then those of this administration should find a cost effective choice rather than force price up on oil before it is available. Drill baby drill is ok with me if the market is flooded price only has one way to go, and oil company's have no excuse for high price.

Not necessarily... exploration, drilling then production varies all across the world. The timeline for increasing production from a current, producing field is certainly much shorter than say; a deep water well that is miles from an existing pipeline.

That said, both administrations share in both the success and the failure of domestic energy production - both conventional and alternative sources.

Just as both administrations share in the ups and downs of the countries efforts in Iraq, Afganistan and the final demise of ***** Bin Laden and his cohorts.

AKfish

 

[powerpace]

Gas and diesel went down 5 cents today. In my little corner of the world. Saw this at half dozen stations.

What's Behind These High Gas Prices? : NPR
It really doesn't say why prices change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil