PTO advice

[whiskywizard]

I need to clarify some PTO operating advice that came up in another thread, but I didn't want to derail that discussion.

Here's the comment Derek made that got me thinking...

only press the rear diff lock pedal when the tires are stopped, and don't use the clutch to disengage the PTO's unless you need to slow down a heavy spinning attachment like a mower. If you press the clutch in while the PTO is engaged, you'll hear a very loud clicking noise. This is normal as it helps slow down spinning attachments but is unnecessary if only stopping something like a snowblower.

FYI, my Kioti is hydrostatic, not gears.

When I'm blowing snow, I lift the 3-pt rear blower all the way up so I can reach the blower chute crank handle. I don't want to lift the blower that high with the PTO still turning because it places the u-joints at an extreme angle. So what I do is push in the clutch, raise the 3-pt hitch, crank the chute, lower the blower, release the clutch to re-engage the PTO.

Am I doing something wrong? I haven't heard any clicking. In fact, the PTO and blower are so quiet you can't hear them running at all.

 

[Singlemalt]

I need to clarify some PTO operating advice that came up in another thread, but I didn't want to derail that discussion.

Here's the comment Derek made that got me thinking...


FYI, my Kioti is hydrostatic, not gears.

When I'm blowing snow, I lift the 3-pt rear blower all the way up so I can reach the blower chute crank handle. I don't want to lift the blower that high with the PTO still turning because it places the u-joints at an extreme angle. So what I do is push in the clutch, raise the 3-pt hitch, crank the chute, lower the blower, release the clutch to re-engage the PTO.

Am I doing something wrong? I haven't heard any clicking. In fact, the PTO and blower are so quiet you can't hear them running at all.

Damage will occur if you operate your equipment with the u-joints at extreme angles. It's only a matter of time.
There is nothing wrong with using your clutch.
Throttle down before you engage the PTO as this results in less abrupt impact on your equipment.
Consider a handle extension for your blower.

 

[jpm1]

My DK 35SE HST has a switch that allows the PTO to run "full time" which means 3pt hitch fully raised the PTO still runs or "AUTO" which means at a certain lift height the PTO shuts off avoiding sharp angle damage. When you lower the 3pt hitch then it starts again. This is the way i run with my blower and 3pt hitch finish mower. . . John

 

[psdx]

I need to clarify some PTO operating advice that came up in another thread, but I didn't want to derail that discussion.

Here's the comment Derek made that got me thinking...

FYI, my Kioti is hydrostatic, not gears.

When I'm blowing snow, I lift the 3-pt rear blower all the way up so I can reach the blower chute crank handle. I don't want to lift the blower that high with the PTO still turning because it places the u-joints at an extreme angle. So what I do is push in the clutch, raise the 3-pt hitch, crank the chute, lower the blower, release the clutch to re-engage the PTO.

Am I doing something wrong? I haven't heard any clicking. In fact, the PTO and blower are so quiet you can't hear them running at all.

I can't think of a reason why a healthy tractor would click. You are doing the right thing by stopping the PTO before getting the driveshaft at an extreme angle. And of course the dry or wet clutch that engages your PTO will appreciate if you engage it at half throttle or lower. A snowblower shouldn't present much of a load when engaging, so you should be able to engage the PTO at a few hundred rpms above idle.

 

[Coyote machine]

Here's my suggestion: I would look at the manual that pertains to your tractor's PTO operation AND the manual that applies to your PTO snowblower or any other specific attachment. In general with a HST tractor and PTO use it is safest and best practice to bring the PTO driven attachment to a complete stop before raising it to an angle beyond the recommended angle for PTO operation. This accomplishes allowing the PTO and drive shaft to spin down to a stop before the chance of u-joint, or worse yet, PTO shaft/rear drive damage, etc.
It may not be most convenient or time efficient to do so but it will pay off in the long run with less potential damage to your tractor/ attachments and will keep you and others safer when around the equipment.

 

[namesray]

Originally Posted by Dmace
don't use the clutch to disengage the PTO's unless you need to slow down a heavy spinning attachment like a mower. If you press the clutch in while the PTO is engaged, you'll hear a very loud clicking noise. This is normal as it helps slow down spinning attachments but is unnecessary if only stopping something like a snowblower.

my b7800 will make a clicking noise when i push the clutch in to stop bush hogging. i asked my dealer and they said that was ok. it only makes one click as soon as i push the clutch pedal in and i am already throttled down. it has been doing that ever since i had the tractor new and it now has over 800 hours on it. it only seems to do it with the bush hog and not my 3ph pto winch. what is the click exactly? anybody know?

 

[Dmace]

From what I've heard, the clicking is called the "over running clutch", when you push in the clutch it slows the spinning implement down which is the clicking noise heard. This is normal and if you don't hear it, you may have a different designed PTO system. My 2006 CK20HST has a "Live" PTO which may differ from yours.

My manual states to disengage the PTO lever before depressing the clutch pedal. But also to fully disengage the clutch before engaging the PTO levers. I've tried it a few times with my snow blower and it definitely stops faster pressing the clutch than just disengaging the PTO lever and waiting for it to stop.

 

[RoyJackson]

When I'm blowing snow, I lift the 3-pt rear blower all the way up so I can reach the blower chute crank handle.

All the other posters gave you the right advice. At least you have a clutch so you can disengage the PTO momentarily....a lot of tractors with independent PTO wouldn't be able to just step on the clutch.
I've always read it's best to keep the yokes inline as much as possible, and it's recommended to not exceed a 15 degree offset.

My question is, can you extend the length of the chute crank?

 

[jwease]

I'm glad I read this thread. I'll have to stop raising the blower to adjust the chute while the PTO is still engaged.

 

[Singlemalt]

I'm glad I read this thread. I'll have to stop raising the blower to adjust the chute while the PTO is still engaged.

"it's recommended to not exceed a 15 degree offset."

If your PTO equipment is mounted correctly you should be able to raise your blower without disengaging the PTO as well as meeting the 15 degree offset that Roy mentions.

 

[RoyJackson]

"it's recommended to not exceed a 15 degree offset."

If your PTO equipment is mounted correctly you should be able to raise your blower without disengaging the PTO as well as meeting the 15 degree offset that Roy mentions.

I agree with this and should have put it in my first post.
Two caveats:
1) The OP must ensure there is absolutely no way his clothing (scarf, coat etc) can get caught in the PTO drive shaft. This is why I suggest he extend the cranking shaft.
2) Raising the blower for 15-30 seconds shouldn't hurt anything...quite a few folks do raise their blowers when backing out of a drifted area to make another approach.

As I'd written, extending the length of the crank would be the better way to go. At least one TBNer did this...I think he rigged a support (for the lengthened crank) on his ROPS.
Ultimately, an electric or hydraulic chute rotation would be a worthwhile addition.

 

[rimshot]

I agree with this and should have put it in my first post.
Two caveats:
1) The OP must ensure there is absolutely no way his clothing (scarf, coat etc) can get caught in the PTO drive shaft. This is why I suggest he extend the cranking shaft.
2) Raising the blower for 15-30 seconds shouldn't hurt anything...quite a few folks do raise their blowers when backing out of a drifted area to make another approach.

As I'd written, extending the length of the crank would be the better way to go. At least one TBNer did this...I think he rigged a support (for the lengthened crank) on his ROPS.
Ultimately, an electric or hydraulic chute rotation would be a worthwhile addition.

========

I guess I'm bucking the trend here also. I have always been aware of the fact that the PTO powered implement runs best with the least angle for the drive shaft. That would mean down and dirty and blowing snow. But I still raise my snowblower with augers powered by PTO. Of course the pto powered snowblower is running but not under load and I try not to go up all the way.

If I was going to have to power down and flip the PTO out of gear everytime I pullled forward (rear snowblower) it would double my tractor time.

I have been operating this way for four years and the machine has 850 hours and moved lots of snow during that time. I certainly would not operate the blower this way If I felt I was abusing the equipment. I don't find anything in my manuals which advises this is definitely wrong. It does indicate pto powered devices run best with less angle but that does not prohibit an occasional controllled raising of the three point like to pull forward and not drag a bunch of snow ahead when you don't want to.

Also make sure if you extend your handle you have the proper clearance to avoid damage when you do raise the blower. My handle just touches the Slow moving placard three point is raised too high.

rimshot

While that clatter one hears when depressing the clutch with pto running at full rpm is unnerving it is not harmful as it just goes to show overrun is operating as it should be.

 

[whiskywizard]

If your PTO equipment is mounted correctly you should be able to raise your blower without disengaging the PTO as well as meeting the 15 degree offset that Roy mentions.

I'd like to hear more. My 3-pt hitch will lift my blower far enough that I can grossly exceed 15 degrees at the u-joints. There's no way I would run it in the fully-lifted position.

I do leave the PTO engaged when pulling forward; I lift just an inch or 2.

I doubt I can simply extend the chute crank - it would be too long without additional support and a bearing. I will look at electric or hydraulic operators for the chute.

 

[Coyote machine]

Unless I missed something the OP said his tractor is HST, NOT geared, therefore all discussion related to clutch disengagement is irrelevant to his particular question(s).
It may be impractical to let the PTO spin down every time one wants to raise the blower or other implement; however, when considering the potential risks of the PTO shaft, or spline, or something else coming apart as a result of excessive angle over many uses, or single use and bad gone wrong set of circumstances, then one might reconsider the risks taken vs. the rewards of saving a few seconds per use of the PTO/ blower.
The steeper the angle beyond the 15 degree limit makes each use at a higher angle more likely to cause a catastrophic failure of drive-line components, and injury to the OP or bystanders.
At an absolute minimum I would suggest running the PTO at an idle, if one is not going to do a complete spin-down of the PTO drive-train. I'm NOT endorsing this way of doing things- just suggesting an alternative to running at some speed over an idle, or complete spin-down.

OP- nice pics! ? What program are you using that gives the option of clicking on the pics to enlarge? Thanks.

 

[RoyJackson]

I'd like to hear more. My 3-pt hitch will lift my blower far enough that I can grossly exceed 15 degrees at the u-joints. There's no way I would run it in the fully-lifted position.

I do leave the PTO engaged when pulling forward; I lift just an inch or 2.

I doubt I can simply extend the chute crank - it would be too long without additional support and a bearing. I will look at electric or hydraulic operators for the chute.

For the few seconds you'd be raising the blower, I doubt you'd see any major wear.
As I'd written, there was one TBNer who did extend his chute crank. I'm pretty sure the support was mounted to the ROPS. No idea if he used another bearing at the mount though.

 

[rimshot]

Unless I missed something the OP said his tractor is HST, NOT geared, therefore all discussion related to clutch disengagement is irrelevant to his particular question(s).(says Coyote machine)
============

Not necessarilly so Coyote. The OP has a CK20 (s) and it has a clutch. So do I.

rim

 

[Dmace]

Unless I missed something the OP said his tractor is HST, NOT geared, therefore all discussion related to clutch disengagement is irrelevant to his particular question(s).

How do you figure?
My tractor is an HST and has a clutch and it still needs to be pushed in when engaging the rear or mid PTO.

 

[Coyote machine]

Opps, Sorry - forgot there are some that have both?! Duh For some reason I can't seem to get it into my head that there ARE tractors with both HST AND a clutch... Guess I just want everyone to have an HST only tractor:confused2::laughing:

Thanks for pointing out my error.:confused2:

 

[Dmace]

Now I'm the confused one, I've never heard of or seen an HST tractor without a clutch...

 

[rimshot]

Now I'm the confused one, I've never heard of or seen an HST tractor without a clutch...

Kubota's have no clutch when equipped with HST.

rimshot