NEWER TRACTORS vs OLD IRON

[DieselnHooters]

I just finished reading the "rust on my kubota" thread and it quickly switched into a debate on how modern tractors wont last as long and are not as well built as those vintage ones. Good points made on both sides I reckon but it left me wondering on what makes a tractor vintage/old iron and what makes it a modern one.

Was it glow plugs, power-steering, OEM cabs, hydraulic shuttles/HST/power-shift, electronic digital displays or something else?-

 

[Sutol]

I'd say it was a cab that sorts the men from the boys, without a cab it's a proper tractor with a cab it should be painted pink

 

[oldnslo]

I just finished reading the "rust on my kubota" thread and it quickly switched into a debate on how modern tractors wont last as long and are not as well built as those vintage ones. Good points made on both sides I reckon but it left me wondering on what makes a tractor vintage/old iron and what makes it a modern one.

Was it glow plugs, power-steering, OEM cabs, hydraulic shuttles/HST/power-shift, electronic digital displays or something else?-

Don't know if you could point it to any one thing. I think it has just been a gradual change and decay in the quality and or quantity of materials used. Today they use computer design, stress and fatigue analysis to build in a "design" life of a piece of equipment under given loads. Before all this analysis it seemed like stuff was just made to last.

I also suspect the advent of the computer age and internet makes a 1% failure rate on product seem like the whole product line is junk.

Roy

 

[DAY]

After WWII "Designed Obsolescence" was discovered by Madison Avenue, and America changed forever. For Good, or For Bad is open to debate!

When I was small we had a party line telephone, and you needed an operator to place a call. Now I can watch movies on my cell phone, while I text message my stockbroker. . .

 

[tim l]

To me a vintage tractor is one which was made in the USA, must have one of the traditional names such as John Deere, Case, IH, etc., Components were mechanically enguaged like the PTO, and belt pulley.

I think they were overbuilt and hard to kill. They could set out in the weather for years and would still run. I would not consider anything made after the seventies a vintage tractor. Also easy to work on.

 

[Baby Grand]

To me it's about the weight to power ratio and the use of materials. Big, heavy, cast iron cases & housings, steel forgings, and a touch of sheet metal. I'd consider an old Ferguson-Brown, Leyland or similar, foreign makes to be vintage, too.

 

[milkman636]

If it leaks too much to keep on a cement floor it's old iron

 

[SPYDERLK]

I'd say it was a cab that sorts the men from the boys, without a cab it's a proper tractor with a cab it should be painted pink

:thumbsup: ... Course my '06 Mahindra is turning pink in the sun. :confused3:
larry

 

[strum456]

In my opinion, you get the best of both worlds with a lot of 15 to
25 year old machines.

During this time period, most tractors had plenty of gears (even synchronized in some cases), decent hydraulics, and hydrostatic steering. They have modern features and are built out of heavy castings and steel.

 

[D7E]

In my opinion, you get the best of both worlds with a lot of 15 to
25 year old machines.

During this time period, most tractors had plenty of gears (even synchronized in some cases), decent hydraulics, and hydrostatic steering. They have modern features and are built out of heavy castings and steel.

Absoluteley , Capable of as much work as a new one , some amount of comfort ,easier maintenance at a fraction of the cost.

 

[strum456]

Horsepower ratings are going the way of lawn tractors. Today, you need a 60 horse tractor to do the work of an old 45 HP rated machine.

 

[Thomas]

If one lives/depends on tractor for there living,at the end of the day there body will tell them new s old tractor.

 

[Soundguy]

I just finished reading the "rust on my kubota" thread and it quickly switched into a debate on how modern tractors wont last as long and are not as well built as those vintage ones. Good points made on both sides I reckon but it left me wondering on what makes a tractor vintage/old iron and what makes it a modern one.

Was it glow plugs, power-steering, OEM cabs, hydraulic shuttles/HST/power-shift, electronic digital displays or something else?-

depends who's shoes you are in.

for some, like clubs.. it is a straight age thing with antique vs classic.. etc..

for others it is design, features and materials.

IE.. switch from metal to plastic and fiberglass.. switch from individual mechanical gauges to clusters.. or more electronics.. etc.

power steering and thermal start ades are quite old. ford found those in the 50's... and they weren't alone.. etc...

for others, if you can carry out 2 screwdrivers, a hammer and drift, and a SAE set of wrenches and sockets.. and can pretty much take apart and put the tractor back together.. it might be vintage.

especially if it breaks down and you have to plug a computer into it to check it.. then it may NOT be vintage..

soundguy

 

[flusher]

I just finished reading the "rust on my kubota" thread and it quickly switched into a debate on how modern tractors wont last as long and are not as well built as those vintage ones. Good points made on both sides I reckon but it left me wondering on what makes a tractor vintage/old iron and what makes it a modern one.

Was it glow plugs, power-steering, OEM cabs, hydraulic shuttles/HST/power-shift, electronic digital displays or something else?-

My tractor club (EDGE/TA) considers my 1964 MF135 diesel as vintage (just barely). My other tractors (1945 Oliver 60, 1948 Farmall Cub, 1951 Minneapolis Moline BF and 1951 Farmall Super A) definitely fall in the vintage category.

Personally, I consider a tractor vintage if it's simple enough so I can take it apart and get it back together with the basic tools I have in my shop. If that work requires complex, expensive tools, then it's a modern tractor.

 

[treman]

If it leaks too much to keep on a cement floor it's old iron

So are you saying that since my 69' farmall cub doesn't leak it means its not old iron:laughing:

 

[MHarryE]

I saw the "rust on my Kubota" thread too. Dad was a I-H dealer and I don't have a picture of any tractor more than 2 or 3 years old that had anything like new paint but my nephews 70's & 80's Farmalls still look halfway decent. As for reliability, I got to do the crappy cleanup work of all the valve jobs, M transmission bearing replacements, upgrading electrical to something that worked instead of the original mags, etc. Broken arms from cranking when the starter won't work. Thumbs ripped up from the steering wheel being ripped out of your hands hitting a rock with no power steering. Band brakes that almost kinda worked. The good old days.

 

[D7E]

Horsepower ratings are going the way of lawn tractors. Today, you need a 60 horse tractor to do the work of an old 45 HP rated machine.

Glad someone touched on this ....What we used to pull with "100"hp 20 years ago you will see world wide now needs "140 hp" Like our 1980's artic tractors of 310-350 have always pulled 40ft chisel ploughs yet today 450hp quad tracks are pulling the same tillers.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Everyone is so stuck on the "numbers" these days......Most manufacturers flaunt the gross engine HP these days. It USED to be, farmers spoke in terms of PTO hp, OR, how many plows she'll pull. Since the advent of the compact tractor market, everyone has zero-ed in on that higher (but somewhat meaningless IMHO) engine hp rating since it appears "higher". With all the bells and whistles hanging on todays tractors that absorb hp, a fair amount of those ponies don't make it to the end where you attach implements.

All us "old timers" would rather hear the PTO hp rating.

And, as far as what sort of drawbar load you can pull with a given amount of hp, years ago, working speeds were lower, tractors were generally operated in the field heavier (ballasted weight). Today, ground speeds are usually higher for many larger tillage tools, which uses more hp per foot, but accomplishes same or more work when all is said and done.

Specifications are nice, and they give people something to debate on internet sites, but the only one that matters in the end is how much work can I get done in a day.

 

[RoyJackson]

If it leaks too much to keep on a cement floor it's old iron

Or a Harley Davidson...

 

[art]

We get this quite a bit as far as a value to the purchaser.

The horsepower ratings seem to have changed as they have gone from the PTO recently (it used to be drawbar before my time) and has gone to the engine! Worked for a few years for the manufacturer that changed it all to sell more and boost of it's higher horsepowers!

There are still many new tractors out there that are built off old molds and designs from a manufactuer that has choosen to discontinue those designs for newer ones.

Some were just not as user freindly as the new models so in order to keep up they made changes.

On the old vs new I like the old for simplicity although that often meant that you sacrificed usefulness and sometimes safety. Many of the older tractors didn't have independent PTO of good hydraulic systems to run a loader well or other attachments.