looking for hill climbing tractor

[Gem99ultra]

My Husky Rider 155 has a 4" turning circle. Not quite a zero, but a lot more pleasant to run. The Rider is an articulating mower. Ideal for getting around trees. The GTH is a garden tractor style and has 23" back tires; it is not nearly as agile. I think it has an 18" turning circle, but 99% of my use for it is large grassy areas and slopes.

Either one 'will' turn over if you just go flying off. I tried putting an out-rigger on the Rider 155. That worked, but your A* H*** will bite donuts when it tilts over to the point of running on the out-rigger arm.

If you can afford something like the Ventrac, I think that'll be about the best there is for the money. Second choice would be something with dual tires on all 4 corners like a KwikCut - but then you're getting into the $50K range.

Cheap, like me, would be looking at a mower with rear wheel weights and a weight box for the front. For 1+ acres of cutting, I wouldn't want to invest $12,000++ for a mower. Now... if you "need" a tractor, the Husky is not the machine you're looking for.

 

[Jay4200]

My Deere lx178 just died and I am looking at new tractors for climbing my hilly 1.1 acre lot.

Well, all the Ventrac recommendations aside, if a LX178 could do the job, then just about anything could. I'd go with a gear transmission over hydro though, and get something with a rear end big enough to require lug nuts on the rims.

JayC

 

[whiskeyc]

That looks like free-fall territory to me. Be careful!!!

A lot more of the saplings will be removed. My 210lb ballast on the seat makes a difference on a small tractor like the lx178. These 1000~ 1500lb subcompacts are a different animal. I have worked larger tractors years ago, and the most important thing has been knowing the how the tractor rides on that ground. I will have to have a demo at the house to be comfortable with a purchase. Both dealers that I am talking to have good reputations. Sadly one lost his Deere dealership and now sells mihandra and simplicity and ventrac.

 

[Gittyup]

Did u look at the x729or x749? Al wheel steer is the cats meow. Awesome on slopes too. Or go used and get a 455 with aws.

 

[Large Bear 13]

Steiner Tractors and Attachments take a look at the original one. STEINER: It's the little red tractor that can.

 

[Grandad4]

...Whether its me or the tractor that gets broke on the slope is another question. ...
A lot of 20 degree slopes and several 25 and 30 degree sections....

Those pictures tell a story. First thing I notice is you aren't trying to keep a manicured golf course lawn on a hillside. That's good. You can be a little more flexible about when and how you mow it. No doubt you only mow when it's fully dry. Any mower would be sliding all over if it was wet. And you can mostly go up and down, probably not a whole lot of side-slope mowing, which is also good, because those slopes are steep enough that they are really in Steiner/Ventrac territory if mowed sideways. Your place is also compact enough that if there are a few really inaccessible spots, you could handle them with a few minutes of weed eater or push mower time.

If you go for the tractor like the BX models, which I tend to prefer, keep in mind that the heavier weight means your body won't make that much difference in keeping all 4 wheels on the ground. The thing needs to be stable on its own, not because you're hanging off of one side.

One reason I favor the sub-cut type tractors is the much more robust drivetrain, particularly the transmission. They'll have a low-range for heavy pulling, such as when you're lugging stuff up that grade. Just my opinion, but that would probably mean they'd tolerate those hills over the long term somewhat better as well. At least with the sub-cut type of equipment, many people regard the hydrostatic transmission as an advantage on hills since there's no shifting or clutching, which can lead to loss of control.

Good luck with your shopping. It sounds like you're looking in the right places.

 

[jenkinsph]

Did u look at the x729or x749? Al wheel steer is the cats meow. Awesome on slopes too. Or go used and get a 455 with aws.

Participating in this forum for a couple of years I find most people don't recognize the advantages of the x729 and x749. I have operated my x749 on enough slopes as the OP has shown to know it can handle his work very well. I researched and compared the x7xx series and the Deere 2320-2720 and came to the conclusion that the x749 would fit in more places and handle the slopes much better. For the record, the cost for the x749 with 48 or 54" deck, cat 1 limited 3ph and 540 rear pto was 13,050 +tax.

It seems everyone thinks they have to have a fel on everything they buy. IMO a fel is in the way on a finished lawn area and greatly reduces the manueverability of the tractor, plus you need to have too much ballast to be optimum to use on a nice lawn. While fels are very useful to have he has already mentioned that his dad has a tractor he can use for some of these projects. While you can remove a fel and remove a ballast box to aid in manueverability it is much harder to remove wheel weights or liquid ballast needed for lateral stability needed for fel work. Seems everything is a compromise.

 

[Gittyup]

Participating in this forum for a couple of years I find most people don't recognize the advantages of the x729 and x749. I have operated my x749 on enough slopes as the OP has shown to know it can handle his work very well. I researched and compared the x7xx series and the Deere 2320-2720 and came to the conclusion that the x749 would fit in more places and handle the slopes much better. For the record, the cost for the x749 with 48 or 54" deck, cat 1 limited 3ph and 540 rear pto was 13,050 +tax.

It seems everyone thinks they have to have a fel on everything they buy. IMO a fel is in the way on a finished lawn area and greatly reduces the manueverability of the tractor, plus you need to have too much ballast to be optimum to use on a nice lawn. While fels are very useful to have he has already mentioned that his dad has a tractor he can use for some of these projects. While you can remove a fel and remove a ballast box to aid in manueverability it is much harder to remove wheel weights or liquid ballast needed for lateral stability needed for fel work. Seems everything is a compromise.

The advantage of AWS on hills is often over looked. On traditional machines, the rear drive wheels fight against turning uphill. On AWS's the drivewheels face up the hill, always pushing in the desired direction of travel. This allows them to work very well on hills. This same feature gives you excellent steerabilty when plowing/blowing snow. Also, these machines sit lower to the ground than do SUBCUTS giving them outstanding stability.

I mow some steep slopes sideways on my 425 AWS (old version similar to x700 series). It has never ever felt like it was about to turn over, even at times when I could barely stay in the seat due to the slope angle. The slopes were steep enought that I had to get off on the upper edge of the seat just to keep from falling off. My tractor is almost as wide as it is long, and alot of the weight (transmssion) is only about 4" off the ground. Then add to that the 250+ lbs of mower deck outrigging the tractor. Turning this tractor over would take some incredibly steep slopes; slopes no one would consider cutting with any sort of ride-on.

Yeah, a loader isn't an option with AWS. And that's OK by me. I have a CUT with a loader for that kind of work. But, my little 425 will mow circles around the CUT. It's very fast, compact, and manueverable with outstanding sight lines and control. It also pulls a 6' CMI garden trailer loaded with dirt or whatever. The trailer when loaded can easily weigh more than 1500 lbs. Not a problem even on hills, even backing up. And talk about manuevering the trailer, the AWS makes that so much more capable. AWS and trailerign were meant for each other; that's why I also have a quadrasteer truck. Turning with a trailer is amazing.

 

[TripleR]

I mow some steep slopes sideways on my 425 AWS (old version similar to x700 series). It has never ever felt like it was about to turn over, even at times when I could barely stay in the seat due to the slope angle. The slopes were steep enough that I had to get off on the upper edge of the seat just to keep from falling off. My tractor is almost as wide as it is long, and alot of the weight (transmission) is only about 4" off the ground. Then add to that the 250+ lbs of mower deck outrigging the tractor. Turning this tractor over would take some incredibly steep slopes; slopes no one would consider cutting with any sort of ride-on.

Our experience was completely different. Our 425 rolled down hills or flipped on slopes that our BX and 2305 handle with ease. Agreed, the 425 is really maneuverable, but it just wasn't close to our SCUTs.

We also have several tractors with FELs, but a SCUT will get in places they won't and removal takes under three minutes.

I guess it just depends on your needs and property.

 

[JohnnyDB]

Steiner Tractors and Attachments take a look at the original one. STEINER: It's the little red tractor that can.

On topic: good luck in your quest, get as many demo's as you can and make sure YOU get to drive each product so you can see if you feel comfortable, that is key.

And someone mentioned earlier about Kut Kwik with 8 tires, you can put Duals on the Ventrac and Steiners fyi

A little off topic from OP in response to quoted
Yes, sadly that is the original Steiner. It hasn't changed much since the Steiner family sold it in 88'. (For those that don't know the Steiner family that originally designed the Steiner tractor in the 70's sold in the late 80's and got back in the business in the mid 90's with Ventrac.) Steiner is still a great tractor and it would probably work great for your application, but I would never buy Steiner over Ventrac because of the fact that they have not changed since the new ownership. It has been just another "piece" in their whole lineup of other products, whereas the Steiner family takes pride in their Ventrac tractors and are always looking to improve. While the big corporation running Steiner looks to strip costs by cutting corners and using lesser quality components (look at some of their "new" attachments that are now lesser quality or made by someone else), Ventrac keeps standing behind their product and making a quality product that will take a beating in the commercial market. Yes, I said commercial, Steiners are great for homeowner market, but as a homeowner I would still prefer supporting small businesses like Ventrac who care about their product and customers even if that means a slightly higher cost. THAT is why I have Ventrac. My 2 cents...

 

[whiskeyc]

Does anyone know how the Glide Steer and transmission in the GR2120 works in detail? I understand that the rear inner wheel releases, similar to a limited slip diff, except it is controlled by a rods that are attached to the front wheels. The greater the turn angle, the less "inner wheel traction" as they put it in their brochure. I guess it is a more controlled way of handling power distribution to the rear tires.

My question is what happens to the power at the front wheels? Are they full time or do they also release, thus having 1 rear wheel or two outer wheels driving?

It appears that the system is 4wd, and that only the inner rear wheel speed is modulated by these control arms, leaving the full power to all wheels all the time. If so, then the rear inner tire must not slip, but is instead given a proportional speed to turn based on the throw of the rod connected to the steering system. It sounds like a lot more "productive" and controlled drive system if this is how it works.

Maybe I answered my own question, but does anyone else have any input on additional inner workings of the GR2120. Does anyone see a flaw with it, compared to the all-wheel-steering of the Deere x729 or x749?

Attached below is a great tutorial on limited slip differentials. It's really old instructional film, but seems like a very simple and concise tutorial. Skip to 1:50, to skip the long intro and to get to the actual tutorial. Also, a cropped pic of the brochure showing how Kubota says the Glide Steer works.
How Differential Gear works (BEST Tutorial) - YouTube

 

[whiskeyc]

Maybe the GR series was given such a bad name because of the earlier model's cable actuated Glide Steer and transmission bushing issue and now that no one recommends it. I Googled "Kubota GR2120" and the third post down is "GR2110 - I'm not impressed. - Page 2 - TractorByNet.com". How would you like that if you were Kubota? They must've took note and made changes. But how is it now?

Are there wheel weights available for the kubota gr2120? I can't find any and don't know of universal wheel weights. I haven't purchased the mower yet, but I am finding it difficult to find many posts on the model within several forums. Even youtube is sparse on videos about the GR series.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Instead of a ventrac, how about a Power-Trac. Power-trac.com. I have the top of the line slope machine but the simple 425 will handle your land quite well.

Carl

 

[locknut]

Does anyone know how the Glide Steer and transmission in the GR2120 works in detail? I understand that the rear inner wheel releases, similar to a limited slip diff, except it is controlled by a rods that are attached to the front wheels. The greater the turn angle, the less "inner wheel traction" as they put it in their brochure. I guess it is a more controlled way of handling power distribution to the rear tires.

My question is what happens to the power at the front wheels? Are they full time or do they also release, thus having 1 rear wheel or two outer wheels driving?

It appears that the system is 4wd, and that only the inner rear wheel speed is modulated by these control arms, leaving the full power to all wheels all the time. If so, then the rear inner tire must not slip, but is instead given a proportional speed to turn based on the throw of the rod connected to the steering system. It sounds like a lot more "productive" and controlled drive system if this is how it works.

Maybe I answered my own question, but does anyone else have any input on additional inner workings of the GR2120. Does anyone see a flaw with it, compared to the all-wheel-steering of the Deere x729 or x749?

Attached below is a great tutorial on limited slip differentials. It's really old instructional film, but seems like a very simple and concise tutorial. Skip to 1:50, to skip the long intro and to get to the actual tutorial. Also, a cropped pic of the brochure showing how Kubota says the Glide Steer works.
How Differential Gear works (BEST Tutorial) - YouTube

The drive on the GR is actually very simple.As the front steering approaches 15 degrees the inside rear wheel clutch disengages completely making for sharp turns with no front end push.The front differential is a normal open carrier type so there's no plowing effect when turning sharp.

The new 20 series have several improvements over the older models.Don't know anything about the Deeres but I'm sure they are very nice.I'd like to try one on the 30 deg hill I mow to see how they compare.

I've got the early Gas model and well satisfied with it.Does everything I've ask it to do.The only thing I wish it had would be a two-speed hydro for extreme grunt work.

Mine does much more than just mow grass;

http://s498.photobucket.com/albums/rr342/locknut-1/?start=20#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ16

 

[TimberXX]

The issues with the previous glide steer makes me pretty uneasy. Kubota puts out a great product, but I would need them to show me that they stand behind that model. Maybe an increase in the warranty period? Or a longer transmission warranty on the glide steer system.

Good luck with your search. How many hours are on your lx?

 

[whiskeyc]

Thanks for the help everyone. I believe today was the last time to mow my lawn with my dad's little mower. Afterwards, I headed to the dealer. Sliding and tearing up the hill while hanging off the side of the little lx178 is inefficient. I have read several forums, watched videos, and compared a lot of different tractors. Your input was greatly appreciated.

There are two ways to approach this yard's maintenance.

1. Get a machine that can handle the slope and get attachments to assist with landscaping needs. 1st year will take a lot of my own time and a capable machine is expensive. But, maintenance will be primarily mowing afterward. The attachments will be handy for any alterations later on.

2. Hire a crew to change the landscape. Plant alternative vegetation, which will eventually have continuous weeding issues on approximately a quarter acre. 1st year will not take much of my time, but is equally as expensive. I will still have to get a mower, and will still have a yard with slightly sloped areas to mow, just not 20+ degree slopes. I think maintaining the alternative vegetation can take an enormous amount time in future years.

I went with option 1. Its just as expensive and I can use the equipment to move and change some portions of the land myself. A lot of professional landscaping could be done with the price of a capable mower. "Its just grass", I keep telling myself.

I just put an order in on a Kubota GR2120, 54" deck with mulching kit. Hillside climbing and maneuverability are high priorities, and I think this machine will work well around my home. 60 month/zero percent financing helped seal the deal.

Some of you are probably saying, "but that machine doesn't have any attachments". True, and that's why I have to order a Johnny Bucket Jr. to help move all of the stone and soil around the property. There isn't enough land or projects to justify a Kubota BX or Deere 1000 series or the additional price of the Ventrac machine for the 1.1 acre lot. Luckily, I still can borrow a tractor with a real FEL if needed.

Well, that's it for now. I'll receive it next week after the dealer sets up the machine and levels the deck. On to JohnnyProducts.com to spec out the bucket.

 

[sparc]

If you want 4ws but want to trim the price of a x7xx series look at the x534. Very capable for mowing if you don't need to run attachments and a couple thousand saved.

My x534 with 48" deck and ,power flow bagger, 47" snow blower, and suitcase weights was ~9k.

 

[locknut]

Maybe the GR series was given such a bad name because of the earlier model's cable actuated Glide Steer and transmission bushing issue and now that no one recommends it. I Googled "Kubota GR2120" and the third post down is "GR2110 - I'm not impressed. - Page 2 - TractorByNet.com". How would you like that if you were Kubota? They must've took note and made changes. But how is it now?

Are there wheel weights available for the kubota gr2120? I can't find any and don't know of universal wheel weights. I haven't purchased the mower yet, but I am finding it difficult to find many posts on the model within several forums. Even youtube is sparse on videos about the GR series.

Std wheel weights will work ok.I opted to make my own brackets and use 10lb barbell weights.Also installed 1" wheel spacers which helps on side hill mowing and better stability with the heavy steel cab I built for it.Kubota said the spacers would be ok.

You're gonna have a blast with the new tractor and the JB bucket.Congrats:thumbsup:

GR2000 Cab Project pictures by locknut-1 - Photobucket

 

[whiskeyc]

Wheel spacers! Well, I think I will modify the machine as necessary. You have me curious though. I currently mow side to side on the hills. It is less likely to tear the turf up with the light 2wd Deere. The Kubota is probably a different animal.

Bought the Johnny Bucket Jr. tonight. It cost over $1700 with the tooth bar, caddy arms, joystick harness, bucket doubler, and JB Jr.

This is a ridiculously expensive year for landscaping.

 

[whiskeyc]

NEW TRACTOR DAY!

Kubota GR2120 has arrived! Even though it has down-poured twice in the last two days, the upper yard just had to be mowed. You know the feeling, and I lack the discipline. The steep bank of the front yard looked liked it shed the water enough to see how this thing handles.

It showed amazing grip, even on the wet 20+ degree bank. No slipping and gobs of oomph. Its the one area of the upper yard that that has a thick foundation of grass. The rest of the yard has damage from last year's tree removal and was used as a substitute parking lot for construction trailers and trucks while our "new" 100 year old house had a 7 month renovation completed upon our move in during February. Lets just say the rest of the upper yard is somewhat patchy with a few thin spots. My wife even had a go at the hill that she never attempted before, and was confident of controls and wore it with a smile. She's definitely not as adventurous on machines, but asked if she could take it for a run. I can't comment on cut as of yet because of the fairly high setting I had and the wet "patchy yard in progress". The real test will be the lower yard, which is substantially more healthy and relatively even. So far, I am happy with traction.

Spent the another hour and a half washing, cleaning, and tightening some bits on my dad's little Deere LX178 with 44" mulching deck. Hopefully return it as it was given. Also, I used a car soap to try to remove the slippery film on the foot rest area and seat of the GR2120. I am not used to just sitting squarely on a seat and having ground traction. Now I need seat traction. I'll don't know if I'll miss the LX178 much as the mow time was ridiculously fast with the new GR2120, 54" mulching deck. Technically it should be around 20% faster, but with the additional forward/reverse speeds and traction the approach to the yard can be modified with even further efficiency.

Hopefully it stays dry for a few days so I can tackle the hills posted previously. I just might put the camera on the tripod and post a video on YouTube for you all. I am waiting on the Johnny Bucket Jr. to arrive to work on other chores as well.

Also, stupid question, what's it called when the engine brake helps you slow down a hill. Before, I always broke traction and had to ride out the hill on the little LX178. The LX178 has a hydrostatic transmission, but the GR2120 seems to have complete control. Is it purely a matter of traction or what is specifically happening?

Still smiling on "new tractor day". Thanks again for your input.