What is wrong with this picture (connection problem)?

[indianaEPH]

I'm a bit stumped at why my hydraulic connections seem to be wrong. Here is the situation: I am trying to install a grapple on my tractor. I have the grapple it has a maile and female flat face skidsteer QD hydraulic interface. I purchased the QD set to mate with the grapple and also bought the tractor side hoses which will supply the hydraulic fluid from the rear remote.

The problem I have is that when I screw on the QD to the hose connection it is a very loose fit. It does not tighten until the QD bottoms on the hose screw bolt shoulder.

THe QD screw connection is 1/2" NPTF, the hose is list as a 1/2" Pipe thread.

When I talked to the "expert" at Rural King he said that the 2 should work together and it will not be tight until you add teflon tape. I don't buy it.

What am I missing?

 

[J_J]

Perhaps someone has used it before to test something and put it back on the shelf. Npt is not designed for repeated uses, as the threads are compressed each time, and you should use paste or tape.

 

[indianaEPH]

Perhaps someone has used it before to test something and put it back on the shelf. Npt is not designed for repeated uses, as the threads are compressed each time, and you should use paste or tape.

JJ, thanks for the reply. When I noticed the issue at home I went back to Rural King to see if the parts on the shelf did the same thing. They were the same

The other connectors to the rear remotes are tight and as I would expect with NPT fitting.I'm now wondering if it is a NPT vs. NTPF issue?

 

[mrmikey]

Here's a description of the difference, NPT Vs. NPTF Taper Pipe Threads , Long story short, the nptf thread seals by deformation of the creast of the thread. It's the same pitch and taper as npt.
It shouldn't bottom out on the shoulder, either the male is cut undersize or the female is cut over......Mike

 

[kennyd]

Can you please post a picture of the two fittings NOT connected? I suspect one may be JIC rather than NPT.

 

[indianaEPH]

Can you please post a picture of the two fittings NOT connected? I suspect one may be JIC rather than NPT.

Here are the pictures. THe packages are clearly labeled NPT and NPTF. Also, the same items in the store have the same loose fit.

 

[Farmerford]

The hose is 1/2 NPT male "swivel", which is a straight mechanical thread rather than a tapered thread.

NPT swivel fittings are like JIC fittings in that the connecting surfaces are male and female flares.

You need an adapter or hoses with i/2 NPT male without the swivel modifier.

 

[LD1]

I think the problem is the hose. I just dont see any taper to it????

If it is lableld NPT that stands for

National
Pipe
Taper

NOT

National
Pipe
Thread

as many think.

I think what you have is a male NPSM fitting on that hose

Which stands for

National
Pipe
Straight
Mechanical

There are only two ways those fittings work. Either in conjunction with a female NPSM fitting, which the females ALSO work with NPTF fittings

or if used with an o-ring like an o-ring fitting.

If I am correct that those are straight threads, I doubt thread sealer is going to work, and if so, not for very long.

 

[Farmerford]

LD1 is right: the correct name of the fitting on the end of the hose is a National Pipe Straight Mechanical thread (NPSM). The "mechanical" means that the thread is designed for the mechanical work of holding two fittings together, and not for sealing the join between the two fittings (as in the case of National Pipe Taper (NPT) or National Pipe Taper Fuel (NPTF).

But I am fairly certain that the NPSM (male) fittings on the hose will not provide a seal against hydraulic fluid (or any other liquid) if connected to a NPSM (female) fitting; since neither thread is tapered, the male and female threads will have about the same clearance between them as a standard hex bolt and nut even when screwed together as far as they will go.

But the NPSM (male) fittings on the hose are not mistakes; they are part of the common agricultural/construction hydraulic fitting class known as "pipe swivel." The male fitting, like the hose, has a 30 degree chamfer in the end of the fitting. The female fitting has a matching 30 degree cone which is pulled into the chamfer by a swivel nut on the female fitting.

Other than the thread sizes and degree of flare, these fittings are similar (but not interchangeable with) the JIC flare fittings (37 deg flare) and SAE flare fittings (45 deg flare). Note that in the JIC and SAE fittings the swivel nut is on the chamfer or female flare end, and in the pipe swivel fittings the swivel nut is on the cone or male flare end.

So, the original poster needs to obtain hoses with a true National Pipe Taper (male) fitting to match the National Pipe Taper (female) ports on his QD's. The packaging of his hoses is misleading: is describes the fittings as NPT Swivel when it should have said simply Pipe Swivel or more descriptively NPSM Swivel.

 

[LD1]

But I am fairly certain that the NPSM (male) fittings on the hose will not provide a seal against hydraulic fluid (or any other liquid) if connected to a NPSM (female) fitting; since neither thread is tapered, the male and female threads will have about the same clearance between them as a standard hex bolt and nut even when screwed together as far as they will go.

But the NPSM (male) fittings on the hose are not mistakes; they are part of the common agricultural/construction hydraulic fitting class known as "pipe swivel." The male fitting, like the hose, has a 30 degree chamfer in the end of the fitting. The female fitting has a matching 30 degree cone which is pulled into the chamfer by a swivel nut on the female fitting.

A NPSM female and NPSM Male WILL seal when used together.

What you are refering to that I highlited in red IS a NPSM female swivel fitting.

Those female fittings that have that 30 degree cone in them will work with EITHER NPSM or NPSM fittings.

The threads do NO sealing. It seals like a JIC flare fitting. Only the flare is inverted.

So to simplify, we agree that he has a hose that has NPSM male threads:thumbsup:

You dont think it will work with a NPSM Female fitting. But your description of what that hose DOES work with (in red) IS a NPSM Female fitting.:thumbsup: So they will work together.

You are correct, the OP needs to buy a hose that is ACTUALLY a NPTF male end and NOT a NPSM Male.

 

[indianaEPH]

The hose is 1/2 NPT male "swivel", which is a straight mechanical thread rather than a tapered thread.

NPT swivel fittings are like JIC fittings in that the connecting surfaces are male and female flares.

You need an adapter or hoses with i/2 NPT male without the swivel modifier.

Alright! Thanks to everyone for the help. I will be heading to Rural king Tomorrow for the exchange!

THanks again!

 

[kennyd]

Alright! Thanks to everyone for the help. I will be heading to Rural king Tomorrow for the exchange!

THanks again!

Also, 1/2" lines are WAY overkill for your grapple. Save some money and real estate and get 3/8" or even 1/4" lines. The grapple cylinder is small and requires very little flow. Smaller lines will also help slow the grapple down a little providing better usability.

 

[indianaEPH]

Also, 1/2" lines are WAY overkill for your grapple. Save some money and real estate and get 3/8" or even 1/4" lines. The grapple cylinder is small and requires very little flow. Smaller lines will also help slow the grapple down a little providing better usability.

Yes, I agree. the reason I ended up with 1/2" was because that was the only diameter that was available in the length that I needed.

However, I returned the whole lot. What I found was that one of the QD couplers was loose the other was tight. So they did not have the same threads even though the package indicated the same threads.

I then purchased a set of lines (3/8), 3/8 to 1/2 adaptors and a new QD units. ALL of the connection are tight after a few turns.

THanks again for all the help!.

:thumbsup: