Yanny vs. Kubota

/ Yanny vs. Kubota #1  

msjanket

Silver Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
222
I've heard people say nothing is better than the Kubota tractors. If so, how do the Yanny tractors stand up, model for model? Engines comparable or is the Kubota engine better?

I'm lookin' at a Yanny now, seem to have better value than the very expensive Kubotas.

thanks
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #2  
I was looking at all of the compact tractors available and I could have bought most a lot newer (20 years or so) than the Yanmar I did buy for about the same money. I am still glad I chose what I did for the sheer simplicity if nothing else.

I read sometimes on the Kubota forum here and some of the problems those folks deal with seem pretty ridiculous to me but thats my opinion.
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #3  
Heres the deal. You cant compare a 30 year old yanmar to a new or even 10 yr old kubota. Its like comparing a 1980 GM truck to a 2005 ford truck. I dont care what you think about brands etc in trucks. A 2005 ford 1/2 ton will out pull haul dragrace whatever a 1980 GM. Now if you take both gm and ford from 1980 there both good trucks and solid in their day. The same is true of the yanmars. Their a good hardworking dependable truck. Kubotas are just sold new here still so there is more availible, BUT not of the grey market ones like most of us have. Kubota won a lawsuit in the ??? 1990's?? (a search will find it here) where no grey market (or tractors not intended for the US market ) to be imported here. That means there are far fewer kubotas around that are greys as they cant bring them in by the container load anymore.

Yanmar left the US market i beleive by a deal with JD when they started actually making their whole tractors in the sCUT line as well as engines for more tractors still to this day.

That said yanmar is a solid tractor and so is a KUbota. A yanmar 2000 and a kubota 2000 are prolly gonna do the same thing and be just as reliable. Keep in mind both these are grey models and even though there is a kuboo dealer in your town they WILL NOT sell you parts if you tell them its a 2000, you would have to tell them the us model if there is one. But those parts will cost more than the ones that we can get through the yanmar aftermarket like Hoye, LMTC, Fredrics, Ernie etc. If i need to i can get some parts at JD and probably in stock as yanmar made some of the 80s model JD tractors. I will try everything possible NOT to as if they know its not a deere they wont sell it to you in most cases?? and the part is liable to be 2-3x the price.

You can search here for problems of the yanmars, most things our guys can fix with the help here, the big stuff like blown engine or busted tranny (cant say i have read about a tranny) they will part it but most things are minor, orings in 3pt, the valve, hydro pump, few injector pumps that seems like the person always messes with, starters alternators voltage regulators, etc. There is a current thread on a 336d with busted up axles and a basic mess. I think the previous owner to the guy trying to fix it must have rolled it off a hill or maybe rolled over his trailer while towing. That is about the worse damage i ahve seen here in almost 2 years, and it was a US model.
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #4  
It comes down to the model and how it was treated by the previous owner. And all new tractors are not perfect, every brand has had a Lemon before, it's part of the game. My Yanmar 169D is pretty basic, it is 6 speed forward and 2 reverse. It has a 16 hp engine and the 3 point hitch is just the valve so there is no position control. So I have hopefully defined basic, some Yanmars have position control, power shift, quick turn, and a few tiller properties that are really neat. Quick turn on the FX tractors basically makes it a front wheel drive tractor so you gain tighter steering and it turns faster. Position control is available on both, but you can more precisely use your 3 point hitch for ground engaging work and mowing applications. Yanmar also had hydraulic tilt as standard equipment on some of their FX tractors and had a UFO system for their tillers that basically was electronic control that keeps the tiller level and preforming at its best at all times. Domestic models aren't as fancy and actually aren't typically in better shape than grey market tractors. The average farm in Japan is about 1 acre, they take good care of their tractors because they are expensive there and are a valuable asset in their operation. Kubota also is a great brand, I have driven several and the only I didn't really like to much was the BX because of how fragile the underside is. The B series however is very nice units, this also includes the older B5000 and up to today's B2320-B3300 SU. I think it comes down to a preference, i got a Yanmar because it was affordable and it has proven to be a great tractor. If I would have seen a Kubota at the same price i would have likely got that. They both have features that the other lacks but are great tractors.
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota
  • Thread Starter
#5  
That said, and I thank you all, has the speed shift worked out on the YM186D? Where you don't have to clutch within a speed range, that is. I'm getting a look at an 186 tomorrow, anything particularly noteworthy that I should look at?

I got a look at a Satoh Beaver III today. Seemed grossly overpriced and had way too much exhaust smoke for just 1000 hours. Cute little bugger, though


thanks, all.
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #6  
That said, and I thank you all, has the speed shift worked out on the YM186D? Where you don't have to clutch within a speed range, that is. I'm getting a look at an 186 tomorrow, anything particularly noteworthy that I should look at?

I got a look at a Satoh Beaver III today. Seemed grossly overpriced and had way too much exhaust smoke for just 1000 hours. Cute little bugger, though


thanks, all.

He has a 169d? I think the 186 is powershift though, everyone likes it that has it. But i think JD's tractor is just a geared one, maybe im wrong?

The beaver is a reverse rotating PTO right? Did the have the reverser kit installed on it? Otherwise if it dont come with its own bushhog good luck fining one! Also i think the parts for the Satohs are scarce?
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #7  
Forget the Satoh unless it is throwaway cheap. You'll never find parts anywhere. Or at least get parts lined up before purchase.

I Have a YM186D. The sheet metal shows it was thoroughly thrashed by what must have been a succession of neglectful owners. It runs like new, and on a dyno tested greater horsepower output than its 'new' spec.

Photo

I just rebuilt its steering which had rusted internally (parked outdoors). The parts were on the shelf at Hoye's so this was not a problem - the *same* parts (steering bearings) that are used in Kubota and 1970's Datsun, and have long been unavailable through those channels. How's that for support!

I've read that the Powershift is indestructible but on here I've read of people who had to flush blockage out of its hydraulic plumbing before it would shift properly. This isn't broken parts, it just reflects owner neglect. Change the fluids and filters on schedule and this will never occur. My Powershift works fine despite the exterior appearance of the tractor. And I consider Powershift a huge advantage over a manual transmission. (I own both types; the YM240 is conventional).

If you can buy a YM186D at a reasonable price - I would do it. Around here (Northern California) prices run from $3500 (no loader) to over $7k (clean, w/loader, obviously well maintained). Hopefully cheaper where you are. I think this is one of the best models Yanmar or anybody ever made in a small tractor. Mine is nearly a full replacement for the larger YM240; about the only limitation is the big loader or backhoe on my YM240 would tip the little guy over.
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #8  
The later Beavers have a standard rotation PTO, though some earlier versions have a counterclockwise output. I have a Satoh 1440, very similar to the Beaver, as well as a 186D. I know you have largely dismissed the Beaver. From what you've said the seller is asking, compared to its condition, I think you're making a good decision.

The 186D is a good tractor, and I like mine. It is built very solidly. The Powershift is what makes the tractor, in my view. A hydrostatic transmission may offer more adjustment within each range than the Powershift, but the Powershift is a couple steps ahead of a straight gear-only transmission. I have said elsewhere that without the Powershift, my 186D would be useless. That's obviously not completely true, but it isn't a terrible exaggeration.

The 186D has a very powerful 3 point hitch and hydraulic system and will lift and handle implements a couple sizes larger than what its power will let it run. Mine rockets a heavy-duty 4 foot brush mower up and down, and would probably take a 6 foot machine fine too. There is no way it would run the cutter, though. My 4 footer will commonly bog it down, even just cutting weeds and grass in my orchard.

I think the 186D is underpowered for its weight and commonly used applications. It is rated only 1 hp higher than my Satoh 1440, but weighs significantly more. Mine, with all its ballast and additional weight, will almost certainly check in at twice the weight of the smaller Satoh. What that means, in my applications, is that there is significant disparity in what the tractors will do in terms of ground-engaging, but not really any difference in terms of mowing, running a tiller, or something dependent upon PTO horsepower.

The 186D will stall before it spins in most conditions except unusual attitudes or very soft soils. The Satoh (or my comparable Yanmar 1401D) will virtually never stall, and will excavate holes with the tires until it rests on the belly pan.

The 186D, given its beefiness and extra weight, would be much better with a loader than my 1401D is, and pulls a disk, plow, or box blade extremely well. The Powershift transmission is a real productivity booster for back and forth work or where you need to adjust speeds (Frequently while mowing, since it's kind of underpowered for what it will otherwise handle). For snowblowing, tilling, general gardening work, mowing, or other general purpose work the lighter tractors don't really give up much.

As far as things to check, the generic things apply: Overall condition, owner knowledge/maintenance history, and the like are a given. Specific to the machine, everybody who has one says the 186Ds have a strong and fast hydraulic lift. Whatever implement the owner has on back should move up with authority. If it doesn't, then the front should be lifting instead. Seriously. One end or the other will be coming up. Everyone also comments that it tends to lower the three point hitch rapidly, too. As in, be nowhere near it when attempting to inch it down, because it's going to drop like a rock.

The Powershift has, because of its design, a slight lag when engaging from neutral into a drive gear. It is similar to having an automatic automobile in park, with the engine idling slowly, then dropping it into gear. There is a perceptible lag, not an instant engagement. Once moving with the engine at rated RPM, shifts are nearly instantaneous, and feel like a musclecar with a shift kit in the transmission. Upshifts are certainly firm, and some might characterize them as harsh, especially if heavily loaded.

My 186D has a somewhat peaky powerband. I think it's normal, based on others' comments. It feels very weak until high RPM, where the engine is strong, but if lugged any, power quickly falls off. This is why the Powershift is so useful, since one can instantly downshift to maintain engine RPM.

Otherwise, I don't know of any real "gotcha" traits peculiar to the 186 models. Just be aware of the quirks particular to the machine, and see if it appears to be a good unit.

As Clemson said, generally this vintage Yanmar is at the pinnacle, along with Kubota, of the extremely high-quality but simple Japanese machinery. These, like the FJ40 and similar Landcruisers and Hilux pickups are easy to work on and maintain, and require minimal attention even in the roughest of environments. All of these things are around 25 years old or more, many are 30 years old. They still work great, especially after some deferred maintenance issues are resolved.

Generally, any problems that arise are due to abuse, owner neglect, or similar things. Running a mower behind a tractor without a properly fitted air filter is going to shorten the engine life dramatically, whether it is a 2011 Kubota/John Deere or a 1917 Fordson F. Having said that, most owners of new equipment admit they doubt their recent purchase will be running in 30 years of sitting out under the trees in the weather.

As a guideline, avoid a tractor that looks (Or is described as) factory new, with shiny, fresh paint, clean decals, and the like. They are often rebuilds of dubious quality imported from Vietnam. Some of them (Like my 1401D and some other users' machines here) are superb, and are no trouble at all. Others have nightmarish tales (documented) of engines or front axles from entirely different models, sometimes having different numbers of cylinders or incorrectly matched gear ratios. Again, these are 20 to 30 year old pieces of equipment, so should look like it, but that doesn't mean neglected or abused.
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #9  
I have the 187d...just a slightly longer version of the 186. I have been very pleased with it so far. Todate, all the repairs needed (which have been few) were done by me with help from the guys on this board. (great group with alot of info to share). Parts have been easy to get as needed. Like any other 20 plus year old machinery there is some concern of lack of parts down the road. Can not comment on the Kubota, but I looked at the Satohs as well and decided on the Yanmar because I felt there would be better access to parts and help. (note I typed felt- no expert just my observation when I was looking for my first cut).

Good luck on your search!
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #10  
Forget the Satoh unless it is throwaway cheap. You'll never find parts anywhere. Or at least get parts lined up before purchase..

Oh the blasphemy! :D California, you're one of the best guys on TBN but this is why the "Mitsubishi guy" i.e. me, has to troll the Yanmar forum......well, OK there's only about a tenth of the traffic in the Mitsubishi forum so I have to troll somewhere. Satohs are super dependable and almost all but the early oddball and maybe largest models are well supported machines. They made a BUNCH of those and the variations of that thing under the Satoh and Mitsubishi brands and the Beaver III was even the U.S. model. Parts are as abundant as about any of the old Japanese compacts. Nothing will ever match Yanmars support but I would never pass on a Beaver because of worry for parts( at least at this point in time). and as far as technical knowledge, as long as people like Bill Rodgers and Len Sheaffer are around they will have dealers that can help owners with any conceivable issue anyone would ever have.
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #11  
I think you find that when you really get into Japanese small tractors you will find that Kubota is middle of the road stuff, Iseki and Yanmar being above Kubota in desirability and interest to rebuild and restore. I would interject that maybe Mitsubishi bets out Kubota too. I don't even see a desire to restore Kubota's in the US where they are revered. Most of the old stuff being restored in the USA is USA stuff, lets face it Farmall cubs and M's, JD 320's, 420's all the high crop stuff but not old Kubota's. Maybe the Kubota guys are just not old enough yet to get nostalgic and start restoring Kubota's from the 70's and 80's, maybe they just were not that good, just cheap?

HS
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #12  
Oh the blasphemy! :D California, you're one of the best guys on TBN but this is why the "Mitsubishi guy" i.e. me, has to troll the Yanmar forum......well, OK there's only about a tenth of the traffic in the Mitsubishi forum so I have to troll somewhere. Satohs are super dependable and almost all but the early oddball and maybe largest models are well supported machines. They made a BUNCH of those and the variations of that thing under the Satoh and Mitsubishi brands and the Beaver III was even the U.S. model. Parts are as abundant as about any of the old Japanese compacts. Nothing will ever match Yanmars support but I would never pass on a Beaver because of worry for parts( at least at this point in time). and as far as technical knowledge, as long as people like Bill Rodgers and Len Sheaffer are around they will have dealers that can help owners with any conceivable issue anyone would ever have.

I read every other blue moon in the grey forum and Mitsu forum. Im thinking i have seen tractors that even Len and others could not help on. Yea i know even JD has those type models but i was thinking that things like gears etc could not be had and there are not that many parts tractors avialible to even part out. This guy had a busted rind gear in a good tractor but no parts even the pros could not help locate. Im not sure if i could find a ring gear for my yanmar NEW but there may be one at Hoye on the self? But i know if i wanted to i could find a parts tractor (ym 2000) easy or could buy the tranny out of a parts tractor at Hoye or somewhere else if need be. But Really at that point it may just be as easy to part my tractor out and but anouther $3000 ym2000 and keep mine for parts.
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #13  
Oh the blasphemy! :D California, you're one of the best guys on TBN but this is why the "Mitsubishi guy" i.e. me, has to troll the Yanmar forum......well, OK there's only about a tenth of the traffic in the Mitsubishi forum so I have to troll somewhere. Satohs are super dependable and almost all but the early oddball and maybe largest models are well supported machines. They made a BUNCH of those and the variations of that thing under the Satoh and Mitsubishi brands and the Beaver III was even the U.S. model. Parts are as abundant as about any of the old Japanese compacts. Nothing will ever match Yanmars support but I would never pass on a Beaver because of worry for parts

:D Ok, maybe I was a little harsh. I didn't notice the OP was a long time TBN member so he should have a better perspective than someone who appears here *after* they buy. My main point was to caution the OP to locate one of these Satoh parts suppliers before he commits to buy.

My opinion was based on a couple of things I've read here - Someone commented that he hadn't located Satoh parts and got no reply when he asked in the Satoh forum. Also Iseki was mentioned above. My only experience of Iseki was at an importer of VN refurbs, where a frustrated new owner told me his tractor had been back in their shop for over 30 days waiting for parts that might not even exist.

My impression of Iseki and Satoh is they are great tractors *in the markets that have good parts support*, Japan and maybe Australia or someplace. But a buyer here in the US should definitely locate the support as the first step before buying one. I stopped by the local Deere dealer who still advertised Authorized Yanmar Parts before I bought my first (US model) Yanmar. Maybe that was excessive caution. Where should the OP ask?

I respect Mitsubishi quality; I have considered buying a Mahindra (Mitsubishi relabelled for the US) but I really can't justify it.
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #14  
Yes, my 169D is just plain gear. No power shift. :( It is very similar to the JD 650. The 650 has position control on the 3 point hitch and different sheet metal. that is what I can note from just looking at pictures and parts diagrams.
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #15  
I have a Yanmar 186D that I purchased new in 1986. It currently has around 2500 hours and still runs great. In 1986, there were really only 3 tractors I considered. The John Deere 650 or 750 (can't remember which one) was basically a Yanmar built to JD specs. It did have a walk thru platform, but at twice the money of the Yanmar! The Kubota was around the same money as the Yanmar but in order to put a loader on the Kubota, one had to install a aux. hydraulic pump. So the Yanmar, at the time, was the logical choice. Soon after I purchased the tractor, Yanmar stopped importing tractors into the country and I thought "great, I now own another orphan". However, this has been a great little tractor, and has really only required normal maintenance and repairs. I mainly use it for mowing, (48" Bush Hog Squealer), pulling a 42" offset disc between our Christmas Trees, or an occasional new lawn assignment where it pulls a 5' gill rake around and around. It will run any one of these implement without complaining all day long. I have a good friend who has the same vintage Kubota and his tractor has also been very reliable. So what tractor is better? Chevy or Ford? think its just a matter of preference, at least tractors from this era. I do have a Bush Hog 1840 QT Loader I am trying to sell, bought new, and is in very good shape. We just do not use it enough any more. We use our Toro Dingo and Skidsteers for what we need to do. You can e-mail me about the loader if interested. Thanks, David F
 
/ Yanny vs. Kubota #16  
The two folks I've talked face to face with that have owned both say the Yanmar is hands down better. While I'm sure there are plenty of folks out there that like the Kubotas, and the owner of the company I work for has several, most folks I've taled to don't really care for them.

All I know is this, I got a tractor that scared Deere enough to start contracting through them for engines instead of competing against them. Cadet is now using them to try to restore their name and reputation as well. That says something.
 

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