Help with Big Fence Project--Rookie!

[mstraebel]

We are fencing in 6 acres for horses this summer. It's a big project and we're rookies, so I'm trying to ask advice from those who have done projects like this! We're in northern Michigan with mostly sandy soil. Our plan is to rent a post hole auger for our Ford 3600. Line and corner posts are 5"x5"x8' black locusy. They'll go 3' deep. Gate posts are 6"x6"x10' locust. They'll go 4' deep, I think. Boards are 5/4"x6"x8' white oak. We're going to screw those in.

Anyway, I'm not clear on how to brace the corner posts. I can't seem to find any drawings or advice on how to do this. Also, I did not order bigger 6"x6" posts for the corners, just the 5"x5". Will the 5x5"s suffice for the corners?

Also, I've read conflicting advice on whether or not to put cement in to secure the gate posts. Some folks say this will tend to gather water and rot the posts. Others say you really should cement them. Others say just tamping well will do. I've also heard adding crushed gravel or pea gravel will make a more solid bed for the posts. Any thoughts on this?

Any words of wisdom are welcome! Thank you in advance.

 

[gwjd]

for post with cement you can put in some gravel say 6 in in bottom of hole and around bottom of post then concrete mixed up right

another trick is to make the holes bell shaped so the frost can not push them out

if its a big gate i would go deeper that far north

we put our mail box post in with road base it worked great

no cement at all for line post this would be a good mix of strength / cost


also make the soil / cement mounded at the top so that water will shed away even after it settles

 

[CATMAN]

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Here's a link to a couple of videos, put out by Redbrand Fencing Company.
I watched them about 6 months ago, and they would probably help a "newguy" like yourself.

We do some things differently, but that's for cattle, on Dad's farm.

This should help you.

How To Install Red Brand Woven Wire Horse Fence - Video

 

[saltbranch]

On our barbed wire fences we go 5' deep on the corners and "H" braces, gate posts are 4' deep, line post 3' deep,"t" posts around 2.5' deep but thats stringing a 4 and 5 wire fence. We have always tamped the posts in. Mesquite posts here last around 20-25 yrs for the most part in a sandy loam soil.
Corners and "H" braces are basically 2 post 5' deep with an 6' or 8' post horizontal between the 2 and a doubled/tripled up wire running from top of one post to bottom of other post, wire twisted up tight as you can get it.
Not sure if that helps or if its done that way on a wood plank fence.

 

[mstraebel]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm thinking I should go with bigger and longer corner posts-maybe 6"x6"x10'. But as I read more, it seems the corner post bracing issue mostly pertains to wire fences where the pressure on the corners increases as the wire is tightened. Is corner bracing less critical with wood post and board type fence?

Molly

 

[MMagis]

But as I read more, it seems the corner post bracing issue mostly pertains to wire fences where the pressure on the corners increases as the wire is tightened. Is corner bracing less critical with wood post and board type fence?

Molly

You're exactly right. With board fence it's not as big of a deal since there's no horizontal pressure on them, except for posts that you'll hang gates on. Personally, I would only brace those posts that will hold gates.

 

[lockhaven]

with a board fence the main problem is at the gates, not the posts pulling in because the boards act just like braces on a wire fence. The gates are heavy and hanging by one end they will sag. I would suggest making the gate posts much longer. Not that they need to be in deeper but so a cable can be run from the top of the post to the gate to prevent the sag.

 

[inveresk]

You don't need to brace corner posts with post and rail fencing. Also none of our gate posts are braced. We have openings up to 12'. We used proprietary metal gates in some places or fir gates I made in a few locations where we needed the gates to be prettier. We milled all our own rails. We haven't experienced any deflection or slump and the fences have been up for a year or more. We fixed the rails into acq treated posts so had to use stainless fasteners. For the most part we used ring shank nails fixed using a Paslode nail gun. As your timber is untreated, galvanized fixings should be all you need.

Our ground Isn't flat and the fences follow the contours. As I worked single handed, I marked height for the top rail using a height rod and fixed this first. I then hung on it a couple of timber jigs I made up which the middle and bottom rails could be slung from. This meant rail spacing was taken care of and I was hands free to work the Paslode.

 

[mstraebel]

Thanks, again, for all your advice. Looks like the bracing of corner posts is not a big issue with post and board fence.

Still brainstorming gate post installation. Leaning towards setting the 6"x6"x10' posts about 4.5' deep and surrounding with tamped crushed gravel vs. concrete. It seems that concrete set posts might have a tendency to heave in the winter more than gravel set posts. And maybe water would drain away from the posts set in gravel? We are pretty far north, so frost is an issue.

Any thoughts on using crushed gravel for gate posts?

M.

 

[inveresk]

My own view is that pounding is the best way to install posts. I had about half of mine pounded but augered holes for the remainder myself. The pounded posts went way quicker and was much more cost effective if I factor in even a modest wage for my own time. The horses have since loosened some of the augered posts but all of the pounded are still secure.

We're into clay. maybe your sandy soil would give different results.

 

[BeezFun]

My own view is that pounding is the best way to install posts. I had about half of mine pounded but augered holes for the remainder myself. The pounded posts went way quicker and was much more cost effective if I factor in even a modest wage for my own time. The horses have since loosened some of the augered posts but all of the pounded are still secure.

We're into clay. maybe your sandy soil would give different results.

Big ditto on this. My neighbor and I share equipment, he owns a pounder that I used last summer to do our 5ac pasture. I own a PHD and it's a pain. FWIW, we used high tension electric fence, requires far fewer posts and costs way less. Also invisible.

 

[mstraebel]

The post we are getting are square. We would need round posts to use the pounding method, correct?

 

[Gizmo2]

We are fencing in 6 acres for horses this summer. It's a big project and we're rookies, so I'm trying to ask advice from those who have done projects like this! We're in northern Michigan with mostly sandy soil. Our plan is to rent a post hole auger for our Ford 3600. Line and corner posts are 5"x5"x8' black locusy. They'll go 3' deep. Gate posts are 6"x6"x10' locust. They'll go 4' deep, I think. Boards are 5/4"x6"x8' white oak. We're going to screw those in.

Anyway, I'm not clear on how to brace the corner posts. I can't seem to find any drawings or advice on how to do this. Also, I did not order bigger 6"x6" posts for the corners, just the 5"x5". Will the 5x5"s suffice for the corners?

Also, I've read conflicting advice on whether or not to put cement in to secure the gate posts. Some folks say this will tend to gather water and rot the posts. Others say you really should cement them. Others say just tamping well will do. I've also heard adding crushed gravel or pea gravel will make a more solid bed for the posts. Any thoughts on this?

Any words of wisdom are welcome! Thank you in advance.

I would not worry too much about bracing the corners of a board fence. The boards themselves are plenty.
How high up you going?
How many boards up?
What is the planned distance between post?
Any stallions?
You will probably want to add an electric fence, at least up around the top board.
See Post #14 http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/156233-board-fence-2.html#post1809077
BTW, I'd buy an auger.
I would also have something along the lines of crusher-run to use for back fill. It has always amazed me how you can make a hole for a fence post, put the fence post in then put the dirt back in and not have enough dirt.

 

[MMagis]

The post we are getting are square. We would need round posts to use the pounding method, correct?

I'm not sure if you NEED round, but I suspect it would be tricky to keep square posts square to the rest of the posts. That would be important with a board fence I would think.

It has always amazed me how you can make a hole for a fence post, put the fence post in then put the dirt back in and not have enough dirt.

Isn't that the truth!

 

[beppington]

Since your soil is sandy, I'd concrete the braced corner sections' posts & the posts on all intermediate fence sections (in stronger soil I probably wouldn't use concrete at all).

Here's a drawing I did that was based on my using 4x4's for all corners, brace sections, line posts & the actual horizontal brace itself.

I did use 6x6's for my main gate posts, but only for looks. Concreted 4x4's with the horizontal brace member & diagonal brace wire shown are very strong.

 

[beppington]

It has always amazed me how you can make a hole for a fence post, put the fence post in then put the dirt back in and not have enough dirt.

This can also help one decide to go ahead & use at least some concrete :thumbsup:

If you're not going to fill the entire hole with concrete, I'd at least pour some in the bottom, then dirt on top of that, & then some more concrete at the top.

 

[inveresk]

Any thoughts on using crushed gravel for gate posts?

M.

Around here that's what fencing contractors use when they auger.

 

[mstraebel]

Thanks, again, everyone.

Gizmo2--We are doing 4 board and 8' spacing between posts. The fence will be about 5' tall. We'll sink the 8' posts 3' down, leaving 5' above. No stallions. Two quiet mares, but hope to add some Irish Draughts eventually, who do like to jump! We will be adding a line of electric on the top board, I think.

I've found some "crushed gravel" at a local place. It has some clay and sand in it. I think it might be just right for setting the gate posts.

Also--trying to figure out how to come around a 90 degree corner when I'm placing the boards on the inside of square posts. It seems I'll either have to put in two posts at each corner, or one board will have to go on the outside of that corner post. Any better solutions?

Beppington-thanks for the drawing!

 

[alakodiak]

Around here the boards go on the outside of the post so the 90deg corners are no big deal. No bracing on the corners and gate post are usually cemented.

 

[beppington]

Also--trying to figure out how to come around a 90 degree corner when I'm placing the boards on the inside of square posts. It seems I'll either have to put in two posts at each corner, or one board will have to go on the outside of that corner post. Any better solutions?

You need one more short 2x4. 1) Attach the fence boards on one side first (the red ones). 2) Cut a 2x4 the length from the top edge of the top red fence board to the bottom edge of the bottom red fence board. 3) Nail or screw the 2x4 on to the face of the red fence boards as shown, using nails or screw long enough to penetrate through the red fence boards into the corner post. 4) Attach the fence boards on the 2nd side (the blue ones), nailing or screwing them into the 2x4.

Top view:

View attachment Corner top view.bmp