Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help!

[Sulla]

Lots of good suggestions, as usual I hasten to add. We're working on the master plan now. I've already had a surveyor out there to get the layout and topography on paper. Next step will be to add the various buildings and utilities.

More and more it looks like I'm going t be doing the road. The three bridges on the Forest Service road barely handle a 1/2 ton pick up. Never mind the stuff I need to bring in.

I need to find a cheaper way to deal with this road. I've got it down to about $20,000 give or take. I'd like to be closer to $10,000.

Pretty sure the fist building is going to be a prefab metal building to house all of equipment and a bunch of stuff we have in storage.

Clearing? Probably the rear mounted saw and grapple. But haven't given up the chain saw yet. After I take the trees down I'm think about a dozer for getting the stumps up.

Which is better for clearing large swaths of land, an excavate or a dozer?

I like the backhoe idea, but my DK45 will have to do. Our budget does't have room for both.

Thanks again. More Pics this weekend.

 

[wmonroe]

I don't think you will reach the 10k mark and still have a driveway that can support heavy trucks. i just put a driveway in last fall that is about 1000', it is currently pretty rough just to get trucks and contractors in to build my house. This fall when i dress it up and make it nice i expect to have approximately 10k in it.

 

[DAY]

A big, BIG chunk of $$$ will be saved if you have stone on site! That is where those Soil Conservation Service maps I mentioned earlier will be invaluable.
Glacial moraine deposits range in size from clay thru sand, gravel, and rocks, all good road building material. Remember, the cost is in the transportation.
Good luck with your 'prospecting' this week end.

 

[Sulla]

A big, BIG chunk of $$$ will be saved if you have stone on site! That is where those Soil Conservation Service maps I mentioned earlier will be invaluable.
Glacial moraine deposits range in size from clay thru sand, gravel, and rocks, all good road building material. Remember, the cost is in the transportation.
Good luck with your 'prospecting' this week end.

The surveyor is pulling together those maps as I write this. We certainly have plenty of rocks and boulders. My plan is to use them to reduce the grade in a few places. Then cover them with gravel. We took quite a few soils samples and we seem to have plenty of clay to build up the road as well. With any luck I'll hit a gravel deposit.

 

[DAY]

With any luck I'll hit a gravel deposit.

You can increase your "luck" by finding a geologist (local College?) who can point you in the right direction.

I live near Reading, PA, and glaciers "didn't make it this far south"- except I have a 100 ft high "mountain" that contains some Canadian granite- and we used them to fill in a low spot on the new road. (instead of three 30 ton loads from the quarry:thumbsup

 

[dave1949]

You can increase your "luck" by finding a geologist (local College?) who can point you in the right direction.

I live near Reading, PA, and glaciers "didn't make it this far south"- except I have a 100 ft high "mountain" that contains some Canadian granite- and we used them to fill in a low spot on the new road. (instead of three 30 ton loads from the quarry:thumbsup

If that's a terminal moraine I bet it has good pickings for stones, etc.

I have about 1000' feet of driveway total. It took 26 tri-axle loads of bank run/pit run to get a base through the wet section. Plus three days of excavator tree clearing and rough-in time, no way was my wheeled tractor going into that and come out again :laughing: It was so soupy, the excavator was having trouble getting enough traction to move trees. We put used paper mill felt down on the soup before the bank run stone, it works like geo-textile fabric.

I just looked up in my records, my driveway cost $10,160. $650 of that was in culverts. But, that is starting from swampy woods and building a driveway that will handle just about anything year-round. Every other year or so, I use 24 yards of 1" minus to keep it in good shape.

Roads and drives can get expensive in a hurry and there really aren't many alternatives if you need to get heavy trucks in.

Dave.

 

[Rustyiron]

Sulla, I allways prefer to take the trees out on the stump with an excavator. Once you cut off that 30' handle, that stump will be a lot more time consuming to get out! If you're lucky, it will be dry ground when you do it and a decent sized excavator with a thumb on it will be able to shake most of the dirt out of the stump for filling the hole back up and the stump will be much lighter and more apt to burn. If you can rent/hire one for a week, I think that you would put a good dent in your clearing job and maybe poke a few holes looking for gravel. Enjoy your adventure and take lots of pic's,,, It helps alot to look back at them when you get that "what the h*ll was I thinking" thoughts rolling around in your head (and sore back). If you don't have a machine to move around your (removed) trees as they come down, you'll need to carefully plan you're attack with the excav. or you'll be burried with trees and need to take valuable time to cut and move them (with you're rented machine sitting idle, but the clock's still ticking).

 

[CurlyDave]

I agree with Rustyiron, an excavator is very good at taking out trees.

Another way I have done it, which is not nearly as fast as an excavator, but certainly less expensive, is to use a long chain (at least 30' longer than the tallest tree), and pull them over with my TLB.

I can easily pull over 8" saplings in the spring when the ground is wet. I use a ladder to put the chain around the tree about 8-10' off the ground. A nail is good to hold the chain at that height. Using the leverage of the tree, my 43 HP TLB pulls them right over.

This can be very dangerous if the chain is too short.

Once the ground dries out, it becomes a lot more difficult.

 

[Sulla]

I just looked up in my records, my driveway cost $10,160. $650 of that was in culverts. But, that is starting from swampy woods and building a driveway that will handle just about anything year-round. Every other year or so, I use 24 yards of 1" minus to keep it in good shape.

Roads and drives can get expensive in a hurry and there really aren't many alternatives if you need to get heavy trucks in.

Dave.

If I get this road done for anything close to $10,000 I will be thrilled. The road is already there, so no trees to clear on that part. There are two or three really wet parts, but even they have a base as I can drive over them in my truck. It's lifted six inches and the ground does scrape but I can get through.

The plan is as follows, so far. Dig out the mud with my DK45 and loader. There is enough mud for it to be work but not enough that I don't think the tractor can handle it. Now comes the part I'm still kicking around. I plan to buy/rent a small dozer to dig out the trenches, grade the road and spread the gravel. My thinking is that the dozer can do most of what an excavator can do on the road and for deeper trenching I have the backhoe on my tractor. When the road is done I can then use it for land clearing, more on that in a moment.

Next I need to lay in at least four culverts, probably five. The water breaks are already there so it's just a matter of trenching a little deeper and dropping them in. Right now it looks like 18" plastic with a smooth sleeve to keep It from clogging up too fast. Then comes the gravel. Unless I find some on the property, the plan is to buy about 30 truck loads of inch and a half and another thirty or so truck loads of three quarter inch. The local company will truck it in as I need it. When its spread I'll rent a roller and pack it in.

Some details. There is one spot where I'd like to reduce the grade. I'm thinking about dumping some rocks in there, cover it with at least a foot of fill and then putting down the gravel. I don't have to tackle this but it will be an issue in the future. I should mention that I plan to put Geotechnical Fabric between the ground and the gravel.

On to the land clearing. Then plan here is cut the trees either with a chain saw or a three point hitch saw, making sure to leave about two feet of a stump. Change out the loader for a grapple and stack the fire wood, to be cut before winter, and chip the tops and small trees. Now comes the dozer. Push up all the stumps, dig a big hole and bury them in the corner of the property. Grade and fill where needed and put up the equipment barn and get ready for the snow.

I'm just a guy trying to figure this out and I welcome all constructive comments. I really do appreciate it.

I can't do much else because the heavy equipment road ban is still in place up here. We're getting more rain so I doubt they'll take it off this week. More time to think, less time to do. I better make good use of the time.

Thanks all.

 

[wmonroe]

It sounds like you have a good plan. I think the dozer is a good idea and you will probably end up using it for a lot more than you can think of right now.

Any wet spots in the road make sure you dig down to solid and add the proper drains. I know with my driveway i had a spot that after a lot of rain my truck (approx 7400 lbs) would have no problems, but when the truck delivering concrete block tried he sunk in about 12" +.

 

[KLMandW]

Just a thought.....you might think about finding a used older model motor grader. We lived down a long drive like what you discribe when I was a kid in Ohio. We had a motor grader which proved invaluable for keeping the road in good shape all year long and keeping the snow plowed back in the winter. Would work wonders for bringing your drive to final grade.

 

[dave1949]

There are two or three really wet parts, but even they have a base as I can drive over them in my truck. It's lifted six inches and the ground does scrape but I can get through.

The plan is as follows, so far. Dig out the mud with my DK45 and loader. There is enough mud for it to be work but not enough that I don't think the tractor can handle it. Now comes the part I'm still kicking around. I plan to buy/rent a small dozer to dig out the trenches, grade the road and spread the gravel. My thinking is that the dozer can do most of what an excavator can do on the road and for deeper trenching I have the backhoe on my tractor. When the road is done I can then use it for land clearing, more on that in a moment.

Next I need to lay in at least four culverts, probably five. The water breaks are already there so it's just a matter of trenching a little deeper and dropping them in. Right now it looks like 18" plastic with a smooth sleeve to keep It from clogging up too fast. Then comes the gravel. Unless I find some on the property, the plan is to buy about 30 truck loads of inch and a half and another thirty or so truck loads of three quarter inch. The local company will truck it in as I need it. When its spread I'll rent a roller and pack it in.

Some details. There is one spot where I'd like to reduce the grade. I'm thinking about dumping some rocks in there, cover it with at least a foot of fill and then putting down the gravel. I don't have to tackle this but it will be an issue in the future. I should mention that I plan to put Geotechnical Fabric between the ground and the gravel.

Thanks all.

Some pix would help of those really wet spots. If you can drive over them with your truck this time of year, you may be better off building up with stone, kinda depends on the soil type too. As wmonroe said, digging down can help, if you find something solid below. Sometimes you just make a deeper wetter hole.

I would use much courser stone than 1-1/2" where you see any moisture issues, more like 4"-6" with fines for a base. A light topping of 1-1/2" with fines over that is drivable, you can always add the 3/4" later after the heavy trucks are done.

For the places you are changing/filling the grade, I would start with fill dirt, put down fabric, then the rocks, then gravel.

When setting your culverts after trenching, a layer of 1-1/2" minus makes a good bed to set the culvert on that you can rake out level so the culvert is well supported. Then set the culvert, get the slope good, and bury it with more 1-1/2" minus to protect the culvert from larger rocks. Then cover that with your course base.

If you hand rock the inlet end of the culvert ditch a bit and dig a little pool below each culvert end to catch sediment, you will reduce erosion and make it easy to clean - just take a your backhoe bucket and scoop out the little pools when they fill in. After a year or so, with a few rocks in the ditch, it all settles down and you probably won't have to clean out the culvert. Plus, you always have a place to toss rocks :laughing:

Note:
1" minus is 1" stone down to sand.
With 'fines' is everything smaller than the max stone size is included. This helps it lock up tight and makes it plowable in winter.

I don't have an opinion of the bulldozer aspect. My belief is a dozer is great to grade out a large rough area, an excavator is the better weapon for rocks and trees or trenching. You can do a good bit of grading/smoothing with your DK45, back-drag your FEL bucket on loose stuff or use a box blade with scarifier teeth.

They lifted the posting on our road a week ago, but our elevation is only about 500'.
Dave.

 

[MikeD74T]

Sulla, While all the advice you're getting here is well intentioned, many know little of the terrain you're in or your availability of resources/abilities. ( i.e. dozers cannot come close to what a big excavator can do when road building or buying a grader & running one are two different things entirely. )
Get in contact with a local forester. He'll know of local biomass loggers that can both clear some of your land AND build an acceptable 80,000 lb road including bridges. These loggers deal with the permit process on a regular basis. He can also advise you re: other logs that you can sell when the market is good. You can strech your dollars a long way and leave yourself time & energy for other endeavors. If you were on the north side of those mountains I could hook you up with the right people.
On the housing front -I saw a couple that built a large (50x100) barn and pulled a used mobile home into it. Jacked the home up to second story level & parked under it. Home was used, cheap, inside a building so several common problems were averted. Plan was to live there until they could build a house but needed the barn right away. Looked like a very practical solution to me. There's lots of nice older trailers around, including camper sizes.
MikeD74T
BTW northern NH starts on the other side of those hills.

 

[groundcover]

You named the thread well , That is a big multi year project ! Good thinking on the fire sprinklers. Might want to look into some first aid classes and supplies as well, 911 looks a long way off up there !

 

[forgeblast]

Just wondering would geo-tex fabric be recommended for him? With the wet and grade will it hold the stone better?

 

[MarkV]

Just wondering would geo-tex fabric be recommended for him? With the wet and grade will it hold the stone better?

I sure don't think it would hurt but I sure wouldn't want to pay the bill for a mile of it.

MarkV

 

[Sulla]

I sure don't think it would hurt but I sure wouldn't want to pay the bill for a mile of it.

MarkV

Come on, it's only three quarters of a mile!

Actually I'm only planning on using it for the really wet portions. At $265.00 for four hundred feet it adds up fast.

 

[wmonroe]

I would definately use it on the wet spots as it will keep you from continuously losing rock down into the mud.

 

[Sulla]

Well it's still raining up here meaning I haven't done any work on the land. Folks In the South and Middle of the country have it a lot worse so no complaining from me. Instead I just keep looking for deals on things I need. The most interesting one is a free barn!

The catch? It's a 1792 structure that is for the most part still standing. The deal is I take it down and truck it away and it's free. Parts of it need to be replaced, mainly the North side clapboards up close to the roof. That's to be expected.

All the support beams and foundation rails are in good to excellent condition no rot at all. You can see these beams' where cut with an axe or some other hand tool. The whole building is a testament to what determined people our ancestors were. How they built this with the tools they had so that it would last over two hundred years is mind boggling.

I think I'm going to take the offer.

What besides a man lift, small crane, big truck and a could of pry bars do I need?

I've seen those electric shingle removal things, do they work?

The roof is metal, almost certainly of later vintage. It's rusted but looks salvageable. If not we'll toss it and put a new roof on.

Yeah I know, my wife already told me...I'm nuts. But man this thing deserves to be retained. If they could build it with out power tools of any kind I should be able to take it apart and put it back together again.

Thanks for suggestions you can make.

Did, I mention it was free!

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I'm learning that free is often pretty expensive. That being said, it's a matter of what you have more of, money or time. Even if all you salvaged out of it was a handful of beams, it may be worth the effort. It would be very nice to be able to restore the whole thing at your new place.

Take a lot of come-a-longs, ropes, cables, etc. Be safe! Don't go cutting out structural support until you are done with the other stuff.