Is Ventrac tough enough?

[dannyk]

I love the articulated tractor concept for the ease of switching and servicing attachments. At this point in my life, with bad knees, it's getting harder to work with belly mowers and 3-point hitches on conventional tractors. And this past winter I realize that a walk-behind snowblower is no longer an option for me, and a reliable snowblower is a must in northern Minnesota.

So to make a long story shorter, I'm interested in chucking my Kubotas (B7500 and L39) in favor of Ventrac. (I hope this is the appropriate forum for my questions. If not, please direct me.)

I'd looked at Power Trac years ago, but because of my location in the upper mid-west and the lack of service options, I ultimately went with Kubota and a Bobcat. But recently I found out about Ventrac and a dealer in Minneapolis. The 4231 model would be my first choice (same one American Bulldog has).

As an older coot, I'm ready to forget about the bigger landscaping jobs. What I really need to survive on my property now is a good snowblower, a field mower, and a finish mower. Plus with Ventrac's so-called "excavator," I would also have a motorized wheelbarrow. It's all very expensive, but maybe worth it for the ease of use.

What worries me is that the Ventrac videos show their units on nice even ground, though slopes are apparently not a problem. In contrast, some of my property has recently been reclaimed as mowed areas from forest, and so there are rough spots with roots and stumps sawed flush to the ground. My Kubota mid mower handles this OK, but what about Ventrac? Are the attachments too light-weight relative to those for a utility tractor? Will the frames bend or will they break at the pins from too much stress as they are pushed over uneven ground?

I'm also a bit concerned about reliability, since back in 2005 Pequeajim rated Ventrac as only a 7 out of 10 for reliability. The Minneapolis dealer is 300 miles away, and I currently don't have a pickup or trailer. I'm not as mechanically inclined as Badback, but I'm good at routine maintenance and have maintained tractors for years without taking them to the dealer.

So am I likely to regret a very expensive purchase? Another possibility is the new Deere 1026R with AutoConnect for the mower, but that's a new experiment in tractor technology, and I want to do something before winter shows up again.

Thoughts anyone? Danny

 

[J_J]

In my opinion, if you have good common sense, you can fix just about anything on the Power-Trac. There is nothing mysterious about and engine, pumps, and valves. If you need parts, they usually ship right away. Very few of us ever get to take our PT's back to Power-Trac for maintenance. If you don't know engines, there are shops that sell and maintain them. If the hydraulics need work and you feel you are not capable, there are hyd shops around. Electrics, same thing. V-O-M, and some common sense will usually get-er-done. Beside that, there are knowledgeable people on this forum that can guide you through most any problem.

The 425 is a good all around work horse, but if you need more power, there are other models to choose from.

 

[American Bulldog]

Here we go again.... lol.

The Ventrac attachments are all pretty nice. One thing Ventrac has over any PT is a really nice cab option, which would be really nice for the long winters of Minnesota. They have rough mowers for your stump field. As said before, these machines are not set up well for loaders. They are very capable on slopes. You are going to spend some money, but it is in line with most 4WD CUT's. The PT 425 will be a lot less. Ventrac support is very good from my experiences.

 

[JackIL]

I have owned John Deere and Steiner tractors and now have a Ventrac 4231 Turbo Diesel with numerous attachments. Just prior to the Turbo Diesel I had a Ventrac 4231 Gasoline. I have very steep slopes to mow which makes the Ventrac a natural. See my Ventrac Fan section on the Ventrac Website. Ventrac Compact Tractors & Attachments for more information about my uses.

Ventrac makes excellent products that are practical, reliable, and a pleasure to use. They are "built like a tank" and are well suited for commercial use. It is difficult for me to tell just how rough your terrain is, but if the stumps are roots do not protrude above ground, I see no reason to think Ventrac equipment would be damaged if any kind of "reasonable" attention is paid to operation and care in driving. I follow the Ventrac Operators Manual guidelines carefully and have had no significant problems with any equipment. The Tough Cut deck is rated to cut saplings up to a half inch in diameter. If you can adhere to that and not try to make it cut heavy brush with larger diameter stems it will work great and hold up well. Don't try to push it beyond that. I think you should seriously consider driving to the closest dealer and examining the quality of the construction of the attachments for yourself. They are not "light duty" at all, but your own inspection will give you a better feel for this. They are made for commercial day-in and day-out applications.

My dealer is 90 miles away, but I do have a trailer and tow vehicle, so going there is not a problem for me. I did take the tractor in for a hydrostatic hose update kit and again to have a leaky fuel tank replaced under warranty. I could have done the fuel tank replacement myself had I been so inclined, but I chose not to because it was a warranty item. For routine parts needs, I Email my dealer with what I want including parts numbers from the manual. They have the parts shipped from the factory in Ohio directly to my home. I usually get them in 2-3 days which is satisfactory to me.

I have had no reliability issues at all.

I have used the Excavator to dig and move topsoil for several projects including installation of 2 patios, grading and leveling, and repair of drainage ditch embankments. It does what was designed to do very well. It is not a backhoe.

If you are going to be operating on slopes, dual wheels are mandatory. I leave mine on except for snow blowing and loader uses.

I think it would be very valuable if you could arrange to spend some seat time on a Ventrac with a knowledgeable dealer at hand to show you the ropes. There are some differences from non-articulated tractors to become acquainted with, but they are readily learned.

Good Luck with your decision.

JackIL

 

[dannyk]

Thank you all for your replies. It sounds like Ventrac owners are happy people so far!

JackIL, I assume you needed the diesel for more power. Any reason you were unhappy with the gas 4231?

By the way, I misspoke. The dealer is 150 miles away, 300 round trip.

Danny

 

[Gravy]

Danny,

Although I love my PT and would not trade it for anything in the same price range, you are in a different situation. It sounds like you mostly need to mow & remove snow, with a minor in material transport. To me that sounds a little more like a Ventrac than a PT, but either one might work.

My advice is to find PT & Ventrac owners in your area, look at their machines, and decide for yourself. The PT Owners By State thread here will help on the PT end, and I'm sure your Ventrac dealer can hook you up with some fairly local owners.

 

[JackIL]

Danny,

Ventrac provides tractors with 31 hp Gasoline and 31 hp Turbo Diesel engines. Both can operate safely on 30 degree slopes. However, the Gasoline version is rated for intermittent operation only--meaning no more than 10 minutes at a time on a 30 degree side slope. The Diesel engine has had modifications (by the manufacturer Daihatsu) to allow for unlimited continuous operation on slopes of up to 30 degrees. I switched to the Turbo Diesel in order to get this capability since I mow a lot of slopes. Incidentally, both engines have virtually the same torque response with the Turbo Diesel having a slight edge. In most practical tractor applications you can't tell the difference in performance.

JackIL

 

[American Bulldog]

Danny,

Ventrac provides tractors with 31 hp Gasoline and 31 hp Turbo Diesel engines. Both can operate safely on 30 degree slopes. However, the Gasoline version is rated for intermittent operation only--meaning no more than 10 minutes at a time on a 30 degree side slope. The Diesel engine has had modifications (by the manufacturer Daihatsu) to allow for unlimited continuous operation on slopes of up to 30 degrees. I switched to the Turbo Diesel in order to get this capability since I mow a lot of slopes. Incidentally, both engines have virtually the same torque response with the Turbo Diesel having a slight edge. In most practical tractor applications you can't tell the difference in performance.

JackIL

Interesting. I was going to buy the diesel, but saved myself the 2 grand and got the gas. The tractor can handle the 84" mower going up a 30 degree slope, but I need to use low gear for anything above about 20 degrees. I always wondered if the diesel could do better. I guess not. I think that the gas motor seems to use a lot of fuel. Did you notice better economy with the diesel, or no.

 

[Clumber]

Danny,

Ventrac provides tractors with 31 hp Gasoline and 31 hp Turbo Diesel engines. Both can operate safely on 30 degree slopes. However, the Gasoline version is rated for intermittent operation only--meaning no more than 10 minutes at a time on a 30 degree side slope. The Diesel engine has had modifications (by the manufacturer Daihatsu) to allow for unlimited continuous operation on slopes of up to 30 degrees. I switched to the Turbo Diesel in order to get this capability since I mow a lot of slopes. Incidentally, both engines have virtually the same torque response with the Turbo Diesel having a slight edge. In most practical tractor applications you can't tell the difference in performance.

JackIL

Can you elaborate on the slope usage limitation related to engine type? I studied the Ventracs for several months and never ran into that limitation... Unless fuel flow is restricted during the tilt on a slope, I don't get it. These machines are supposed to be more high-tech than most...

 

[American Bulldog]

Can you elaborate on the slope usage limitation related to engine type? I studied the Ventracs for several months and never ran into that limitation... Unless fuel flow is restricted during the tilt on a slope, I don't get it. These machines are supposed to be more high-tech than most...

I know that they list the gas engines for intermittant usage at 30 degrees. Usually with a gas motor you have carb problems at severe angles. Diesels do not have carb problems. By the sounds of it, maybe there are cooling problems as well, when the slope is over 30 degrees. I myself am never on the 30 degree slopes for more than a minute. I will say that these machines can handle 30 degrees no problem. I have had my VT on slopes 35-40 degrees for brief periods, and it handled that as well.

 

[Scooby074]

Carb issues. But id be willing to bet it has more to do with lubrication. Probably a different sump configuration on the diesel to prevent starving for oil. Or maybe something in the heads to prevent the buildup of oil.

 

[MossRoad]

Carb issues. But id be willing to bet it has more to do with lubrication. Probably a different sump configuration on the diesel to prevent starving for oil. Or maybe something in the heads to prevent the buildup of oil.

Lubrication is the reason for the slope limitation on my Kohler powered PT425. It won't oil itself past 25 degrees.

Maybe we should get aerobatic rated engines like airplanes! :laughing:

 

[MossRoad]

I would still like to see videos of someone on a Ventrac changing from the loader to a mower and back again, just to see how long it takes and what is involved. Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I use my Power Trac as a powered wheel barrow about once a week while doing yard chores. I clean out our flower beds, move firewood, move mulch, yard debris from wind damage, etc... Then I drop the bucket and pick up the mower in about 45 seconds and off I go to mow. Can that be done on a Ventrac with a cab?

Another example is when I take the PT to our rural property. I take two buckets, forks and the brush hog on the trailer. I can switch between the attachments at will over and over again. I do not have to plan my chores in advance. If someone needs both FEL and mower capabilities as often as I do, that can be important.

On the other hand, snow blowing in the great white north with a cab would be a sweet deal! As it currently stands, I have to bundle up pretty much the same as I do to go ice fishing if I have to plow the drive in winter. I do not have that cab option for my Power Trac without involving a 3rd party or making one myself. That could be a very important point for someone that lives in snow country.

 

[Clumber]

Lubrication is the reason for the slope limitation on my Kohler powered PT425. It won't oil itself past 25 degrees.

Maybe we should get aerobatic rated engines like airplanes! :laughing:

What is the effect on the machine? Stalling? I went up a > 30 degree slope with the brush cutter (about 12 feet is distance). The tractor stalled near the top. It started to slowly roll backward. I had plenty of time to turn off the PTO and restart the engine. I then could use the forward treadle to control the backward decent. Now I go up the hill at a shallower point and down at the steepest.

 

[dannyk]

Anyone ever try out the Kawasaki engine or the air-cooled Vanguard on a Ventrac?

By the way, a snowmobile suit, including helmet with visor, and heated gloves are a good alternative to a cab! And then you won't feel confined in the summer and you'll have better visibility! The Ventrac cab is not easily removed.

 

[MossRoad]

What is the effect on the machine? Stalling? I went up a > 30 degree slope with the brush cutter (about 12 feet is distance). The tractor stalled near the top. It started to slowly roll backward. I had plenty of time to turn off the PTO and restart the engine. I then could use the forward treadle to control the backward decent. Now I go up the hill at a shallower point and down at the steepest.

The effect on the machine is no oil in the oil pump. That could lead to bearing failure, etc...

 

[JohnnyDB]

Anyone ever try out the Kawasaki engine or the air-cooled Vanguard on a Ventrac?

Looks like I am late to the party, TBN is a goldmine!:licking:

I have the 4131 air-cooled unit and love it. Easy maintenance and I have well over 2k hours on it and it runs like new. I ran the Kawasaki unit at the dealership but felt like it was a bit underpowered, not sure why, but the Vanguard 31hp air-cooled engine won me over and has performed like a champ.

As far as reliability and toughness I don't think you can beat Ventrac machines especially for their size and class. They are built for commercial use and are quality through and through, plus the service and company are always improving and listening to their customers! I mow, use the snowblower (which is incredible btw:thumbsup and have a slip scoop.

I am not sure why people are talking about the loader on this thread since all you are asking for is the excavator or slip scoop. Different items for different solutions. If I am mistaken correct me, but if you don't need a high lift, the slip scoop will outperform any loader imo. You can be much more agile with it, it is so easy to control and you have a lot of pushing power behind it with the Ventrac. I move mulch, have done a patio, carry logs or rocks with it and many other things. The mower will give you a beautiful cut (unmatched imo), snow blower will clear your driveway out in the harshest weather, and the slipscoop or excavator bucket will be your workhorse around the house. I did use the tough cut at an open house and that thing is a beast but I have no use for it at home

I see you live in N. MN so were you thinking cab? I don't have one, but the new ones sure are tempting. Only thing to think about if you want the cab, the dealer told me the air cooled unit doesn't have heat available for the cab and the kawasaki engine has a smaller alternator which i guess with all the optional lights on the cab, heat, and tractor lights, you can drain the battery? I'm not in the coldest area although we get a lot of snow, so I figured I would never need the heat even if I got the cab.

You should not have ANY problems getting this thing around rough terrain, these things are built like tanks just like Jack said. As I get older and have more back problems I realize how nice it is to have a Ventrac because it is much easier to get on and off and all the controls are very easy. My sons ride on mower is a pain (literally) for me to get on and off and try to operate.

As far as maintenance is concerned, I just follow my operators manual and have never actually had to take it back to my dealer for warranty repair. Treat them right and they will outlast you. So if you can do regular maintenance you should be great!

So are you going to regret an expensive purchase? I don't see how you would in this case, but I would recommend trying to get to the dealer in Minneapolis, maybe meet halfway? See the units in person, feel the quality, get a ride on them and see if they are for you. The safety, comfort, and efficiency that they provide you will pay for themselves.

Sorry I rambled a lot and probably repeated many things

 

[dannyk]

Thanks Johnny,

I was wondering about the air-cooled unit. I figured it might be noisy, but heck, I use ear plugs anyway! I ran an old Power King air-cooled Kohler for 20 years with no problems, so I appreciate your comments.

I know some of the options are different for the air-cooled unit, but the price and less maintenance might make it a winner. The 31-hp Vanguard air-cooled lists at $16,445 (vs $19,775 for the 4231 model), but then you have to add the rear weights and weight transfer system that are standard on the 4231. Still it sounds like a good deal to me. I'm glad you responded!

Danny

 

[American Bulldog]

Thanks Johnny,

I was wondering about the air-cooled unit. I figured it might be noisy, but heck, I use ear plugs anyway! I ran an old Power King air-cooled Kohler for 20 years with no problems, so I appreciate your comments.

I know some of the options are different for the air-cooled unit, but the price and less maintenance might make it a winner. The 31-hp Vanguard air-cooled lists at $16,445 (vs $19,775 for the 4231 model), but then you have to add the rear weights and weight transfer system that are standard on the 4231. Still it sounds like a good deal to me. I'm glad you responded!

Danny

Lot of stuff here. Danny, when you go to the 4231 you get more than just an engine upgrade. I forget everything, but the foot spikes are really nice, and I wouldn't get one without them.

Johnny, one great thing about the VT is the seat. Better suspension than my $50,000 John Deere.

Moss, putting the loader on is definitely not quick. Like Johnny said, the slip scoop can be used to move stuff, but I would have to disagree with him that it is as good as a loader. No way..... You are right, nothing can do mowing and loading as good as a PT. The change time between the slip scoop and the mower is similar to the PT.

Cab is beautiful on the VT, but that thing has to be heavy. Two man job to take it off for sure.

Ventrac Cab Accessories

 

[dannyk]

I just wanted mention that I have absolutely nothing against Power Trac, nor was I trying to start any brand arguments. But like Badback, I wasn't sold on their snowblower, and I also hesitate to have a unit shipped all the way from Virginia sight unseen. I can go down to Mpls and check out the Ventracs and Steiners pretty easily.

Bulldog, the footrests are a $55 option on the 4131.

Danny