Bumper Vs. Gooseneck Payloads

[Iplayfarmer]

Here's a general question for debate. Is it true that a tow vehicle can haul more with a bumper pull trailer than it can with a gooseneck?

Let's use my setup as a reference. I have a Silverado half ton with about a 1000 pound payload capacity after figuring passengers, etc. A typical bumper pull setup uses about 10% tongue weight. A typical gooseneck setup uses 25% tongue weight. My trailer payload capacities therefore are 10,000 pounds for a bumper pull or 4,000 pounds for a gooseneck.

I love my 5th wheel camper and my gooseneck horse trailer. I'm planning a full re-build on my flat bed trailer, and I was tempted to convert it to a gooseneck until I started looking at the above numbers.

I seems odd to me that I can haul less with a gooseneck trailer. What am I missing?

 

[slowzuki]

It depends. A GN is heavier so you have that loss in payload off the start. A half ton doesn't usually have much payload capacity left if fully loaded.

To start with, a 1/2 with only 1000 lb payload will not be rated to tow 10,000 lb by bumper pull, it will be closer to 5000 or 6000 lb.

Next, you don't have to use 25% on a GN, but you can. This will usually let a heavy 1/2 ton like a Ford with the 7700 kg GVWR package tow about 13,000 lb on a GN.

Capacity isn't the only reason to be looking at a GN, they pull really nicely, and don't need sway control etc to try to make them tow well.

 

[SLHawkins]

Here's a general question for debate. Is it true that a tow vehicle can haul more with a bumper pull trailer than it can with a gooseneck?

Let's use my setup as a reference. I have a Silverado half ton with about a 1000 pound payload capacity after figuring passengers, etc. A typical bumper pull setup uses about 10% tongue weight. A typical gooseneck setup uses 25% tongue weight. My trailer payload capacities therefore are 10,000 pounds for a bumper pull or 4,000 pounds for a gooseneck.

I love my 5th wheel camper and my gooseneck horse trailer. I'm planning a full re-build on my flat bed trailer, and I was tempted to convert it to a gooseneck until I started looking at the above numbers.

I seems odd to me that I can haul less with a gooseneck trailer. What am I missing?

No, it is not true. You can haul more with a gooseneck trailer than you can with a bumper pool. You are incorrectly comparing the percentages. The bumper pull does not 'use' 10% of the tongue weight. Rather, when your weight is correctly distributed, about 10% of the weight (trailer plus load) should rest of the tongue. For the gooseneck, about 23% of the weight shouuld be on the bed of the truck. More than that, you will potentially raise the front end of the ground. Less than that, you will raise the rear end. Keep in mind, you must stay within the GCVWR of the vehicle.

In rebuilding your truck, you need to determine the GCVWR (capacity of truck and trailer). Your 1000lbs sounds like just the GVWR (truck only). This link may help: Horse Trailer Weight - Learn the Facts of Safely Towing

 

[slowzuki]

What he's saying is if he keeps a 25% weight distribution on the truck, and that is 1000 lbs max to keep from going over his axle or tire rating, his trailer would only be 4000 lbs which is correct math, but you don't need 1000 lb pin weight on a small trailer like that.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

A little more data...

I took a minute here at work and weighed the truck and read the sticker on the door. These weights are with a full tank of fuel, no passengers, and an empty bed.

Front Axle:
Weight = 2180, Rating = 3925

Rear Axle:
Weight = 2280, Rating = 3750

Whole Truck:
Weight = 5460, Rating = 6400


I also did some looking in the manual and found some interesting information. I never found GCWVR, but I found a chart that lists a max trailer wt. for my set-up (4WD - 1500) at 7,500 lbs. I don't know my axle ratio, but 7,500 lbs. is for the lower capacity axle.

The intersting part is this... "Weight distributing hitch tongue weight 10% to 15% of hitch pulling weight, 1,000 lb. maximum. Fifth-wheel hitch tongue weight 15% to 25% of hitch pulling weight 1,500 lb. maximum."

The two interesting things to me are that the book lists a different tongue weight for a fifth wheel hitch, and that it lists a tongue weight ratio as low as 15% for a fifth wheel.

 

[fowllife]

Your owners manual should spell it all out for you in terms of trailer towing capacity. Generally speaking though your GCVW will remain the same regarless of what you are towing. The manual will break it out into bumper pull, bumper pull with weight distrabution hitch, and 5th wheel. Also keep in mind though that your factory hitch is probably not rated for a 10k trailer.

Tongue weights are maximum allowable, not minimum. Look at your manual with your truck spec's and do the math. Your GCVW is the same no matter how you pull it, you just need to balance your load right to make the numbers work.

 

[grsthegreat]

my 1 ton ford is rated at 5,000# @ bumper (increase up to 10,000 with weight distributing hitch), or 18,000# on gooseneck.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

No, it is not true. You can haul more with a gooseneck trailer than you can with a bumper pool. You are incorrectly comparing the percentages. The bumper pull does not 'use' 10% of the tongue weight. Rather, when your weight is correctly distributed, about 10% of the weight (trailer plus load) should rest of the tongue. For the gooseneck, about 23% of the weight shouuld be on the bed of the truck. More than that, you will potentially raise the front end of the ground. Less than that, you will raise the rear end. Keep in mind, you must stay within the GCVWR of the vehicle.

In rebuilding your truck, you need to determine the GCVWR (capacity of truck and trailer). Your 1000lbs sounds like just the GVWR (truck only). This link may help: Horse Trailer Weight - Learn the Facts of Safely Towing

Keep in mind I'm re-building the trailer, not the truck. I don't disagree that a gooseneck trailer will haul more than a bumper pull in general, but it seems that a low capacity vehicle (like a half ton truck) cannot handle as large of a gooseneck trailer as it can of a bumper pull... based on your own tongue weight estimates. I.e. if both loads are distributed properly, the gooseneck trailer will put more weight on the tow vehicle than the bumper pull will (23% vs. 10%). You'll max out the capacity of a tow vehicle sooner with a gooseneck than you will the same tow vehicle with a bumper pull trailer.

The axles I have to re-build the trailer with are 3500 pound axles, so keeping within the capacity of the tow vehicle is not a problem. The confusion I had was that based on a higher percentage of tongue weight needed for a gooseneck I was coming up with a trailer weight way below the capacity even of the axles.

...you don't need 1000 lb pin weight on a small trailer like that.

I think this is the answer to the question I should have asked. The real question is "How much tongue weight to you really need for a gooseneck trailer?" If I only need 15% tongue weight it makes more sense.

Now I just have to sort out how an empty truck with only 1000 pounds of payload capacity is rated to handle 1500 pounds of fifth wheel tongue weight. Based on the scale numbers, I have the capacity in the rear axle, but I don't have the GVWR capacity.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am not a fan of GN trailers. I had a 25+5 25,000# GVWR and hated it. Pulled it with a 1 Ton Diesel F-350. That being said there is a need for them, just not for 80% of the guys who think they need them. There should also never be a GN on a 1/2 ton period.

The main issue is the weight of the trailer. If you look at say a 10K equipment trailer with a GN then the same trailer with a Bumper Pull there is about 600 to 800# of difference in trailer wight. This comes right off what you can tow.

So in your example your truck is rated for 7,500# which is about as light of a tow rating on a 1/2 modern truck. Most now days are 9,500# to 11,300#. A 10K equipment trailer that is a BP would be about 2,500# empty. A GN would be 3,100# using numbers from one of my dealers. This 600# can make the difference between getting car on the trailer or not.

I have also found it harder to sell GN trailers. BP anyone with a Van, Suburban, Truck, Large Car can tow. GN you are stuck with a truck and loosing the ability to use your bed while towing.


Just leave it alone.

Chris

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I am not a fan of GN trailers. I had a 25+5 25,000# GVWR and hated it. Pulled it with a 1 Ton Diesel Dually. That being said there is a need for them, just not for 80% of the guys who think they need them. There should also never be a GN on a 1/2 ton period.

The main issue is the weight of the trailer. If you look at say a 10K equipment trailer with a GN then the same trailer with a Bumper Pull there is about 600 to 800# of difference in trailer wight. This comes right off what you can tow.

So in your example your truck is rated for 7,500# which is about as light of a tow rating on a 1/2 modern truck. Most now days are 9,500# to 11,300#. A 10K equipment trailer that is a BP would be about 2,500# empty. A GN would be 3,100# using numbers from one of my dealers. This 600# can make the difference between getting car on the trailer or not.

I have also found it harder to sell GN trailers. BP anyone with a Van, Suburban, Truck, Large Car can tow. GN you are stuck with a truck and loosing the ability to use your bed while towing.

Edit: To your point, I'll likely never be able to sell this small of a gooseneck trailer.

Edit: To your point, I'll likely never be able to sell the trailer if I convert it to a gooseneck as few people out there will want that small of a flat bed trailer.

Just leave it alone.

Chris

Chris, I totally respect your opinion. I am the first to admit that I don't need a gooseneck. However, I have a 17' fifth wheel camper and a single axle gooseneck horse trailer, and I love them both. This is purely a "wants" discussion and not a needs discussion. I love how easy it is to hitch a gooseneck. I love that I can jack-knife my horse trailer when needed to get out of the arena at 4-H. I love how a gooseneck or fifth wheel handles when pulling. I just really like that type of trailer.

I'm going to re-build the tongue on my trailer regardless as it's underbuilt and bent now anyway. It's just a matter of whether to build an A-frame tongue that I can use an equalizer with or keep going and make a gooseneck. My tractor weighs about 3,500 lbs. full of fuel and soaking wet (Massey 1215). Other than that, the heaviest load I'll haul is hay. If I can build a 3,000 lb. Gooseneck that looks as silly as my short camper and my short horse trailer and can haul 4,000 lbs. I'm golden.

I just want to make sure that a 3,000 lb. trailer hooked to my truck is actually going to haul 4,000 pounds and not overload my truck.

 

[Diamondpilot]

If you like GN trailers go for it. Sounds like you are sold on the benefits. I just never really liked mine. It pulled good but so does the 20 plus bumper pull trailers I have owned, mainly boats. Its all about sizing the trailer to the truck so if you can get by with only 4,000# of load capacity you are set.

For example I have a 18' BP car hauler that is only 1,250# empty. I added a winch and a tool box plus 5' slide in ramps. I would guess the trailer is now about 1,400# and has 2 3,500# axles That leaves me with 5,600# for payload. I have hauled 1/2 ton truck and a Suburban on it. They max it out but it works great for me. It has hauled more lumber, soil, gravel, mulch, broken down cars, and tractors then you can imagine.

What I am getting at here is what works for one may not work for another.

You are right about what is the limiting factor. For your setup its going to be the GVWR of the truck. In your case you can tow more legally with a BP. On another truck it may be the rear axle, hitch, tires, ect.

Chris

 

[whistlepig]

Goosenecks are nice if you don't need to use your bed. The gooseneck trailer doesn't "work" the truck like a bumper pull and they are less tiring to pull. In my experience they are easier to back also.

 

[brain55]

Goosenecks are nice if you don't need to use your bed. The gooseneck trailer doesn't "work" the truck like a bumper pull and they are less tiring to pull. In my experience they are easier to back also.

I agree that a GN doesn't work the truck like a BP and they do seem less tiring to pull. I have pulled a lot with a BP, everything from small single axle utility trailers to heavily loaded equipment trailers and heavy enclosed trailers with weight distributing hitches. I love my GN, but it is a constant static load so I don't have to worry about weight distribution, I got lucky and mine happened to end up right at 25% on the nose. As far as being easier to back-up, I'm not sure about that yet. I think it becomes more of a function of what you are used to. I could parallel park my BP, but I'm still getting the hang of my GN.

I have to agree with Chris about GN's not having a place on 1/2 ton trucks, but I'm not really a fan of 1/2 ton trucks for much of anything. I also come from a construction fleet management background where 1/2 ton trucks were for PM's that really didn't work their trucks. Trucks intended for work and towing were 3/4 and 1 ton trucks with long beds or flat beds. Every time we tried to move a 1/2 ton into an everyday hard working, heavily loaded situation it just didn't hold up.

Brian

 

[QRTRHRS]

Might be age talking here but with a stock pickup bed, goosenecks are a pain to hitch up, especially if the trailer is enclosed. If the truck has a flatbed, it's a little easier.

 

[PoorMansCat]

Never have an issue making the hook on the GN trailers.. its the bumper pull that I find myself getting out 2-3 times to get it just right... I gotta get a backup camera!!!!...

Maybe I have been thinking aobut this all wrong, but... when you are using a GN... the hitch is in FRONT of the rear axle, so isnt some of the pin weight be transferred to the front axle also???
Whereas a bumper pull is SOLELY on the rear axle and actually being leveraged by the distance front the centerline of the rear axle to the BP hitch ball???

 

[Diamondpilot]

You are correct. A properly installed GN hitch is 6" forward of the rear axle. I do not like them for off road stuff at all. Its easy to get the trailer into the tailgate or bed sides. Also as mentioned by Brian they are tougher to back up. Its all because of the ARM. On a BP you have a long arm from the rear axle to the pivot point, the ball. Maybe 4' on average. On a GN you are talking 6".

I have no issue hooking either up but now days with a backup camera its super easy to hitch up a BP by yourself. I love that feature in my Titan.

Also, as mentioned, as you get older its a pain climbing in and out of the bed to hitch up. Give me a BP any day of the week for a number of reasons but thats just me.

As for being more fatiguing maybe, not really sure. I drove to my drivers test pulling a trailer, a 21' boat on a tandem axle trailer, and dropped it in the parking lot to take the test. My dad always let me drive to and from the lake as soon as I got my learners permit. Now I realize why. Him and Miller Light were good boating buddies.

Chris

 

[grsthegreat]

tougher to back up????? my experience with the several gooseneck trailers ive owned, there way EASIER to back up and maneuver???

 

[whistlepig]

One would have to try a GN and a bumper pull to appreciate the difference. There are very good reasons for both. For small and general utility hauling a GN would be too much. But for the heavy stuff like 10K to 12K plus it is a serious consideration.

 

[whodat526]

i like my gn trailers because i always try to over load everything i pull so a bumper pull just wont work. but i think the gh is way easier to back up than a bumper pull but both is pretty easy once u get the hang of it and both trailers have there places

 

[timswi]

I agree that a GN doesn't work the truck like a BP and they do seem less tiring to pull. I have pulled a lot with a BP, everything from small single axle utility trailers to heavily loaded equipment trailers and heavy enclosed trailers with weight distributing hitches. I love my GN, but it is a constant static load so I don't have to worry about weight distribution, I got lucky and mine happened to end up right at 25% on the nose. As far as being easier to back-up, I'm not sure about that yet. I think it becomes more of a function of what you are used to. I could parallel park my BP, but I'm still getting the hang of my GN.

I have to agree with Chris about GN's not having a place on 1/2 ton trucks, but I'm not really a fan of 1/2 ton trucks for much of anything. I also come from a construction fleet management background where 1/2 ton trucks were for PM's that really didn't work their trucks. Trucks intended for work and towing were 3/4 and 1 ton trucks with long beds or flat beds. Every time we tried to move a 1/2 ton into an everyday hard working, heavily loaded situation it just didn't hold up.

Brian

Brian,

I understand what you need in a truck for your work, but that was an unfortunate blanket statement to all of us who beat our 1/2 tons to death with no issues. I would like to have a 1 ton Dmax but can't justify the cost, plates, insurace etc for something I'll actually need 6 times per year. My half tons have never, ever failed me. You wouldn't believe what I've done to them.

No argument here, just defending the rest of us.