Transmission Flush

[timswi]

I did not read the whole thing Just the beginning. That much mileage with no prior servicing you are risking just rebuilding the tranny. I know no one that would do a service on that vehicle with no prior flush OR dropping and cleaning the magnets. I would at least keep half the original fluid and reuse if you are that set on doing this because the used fluid is not as hard on it as the new would be.

Is there a reason you feel you need to do this?

Again sorry I just could not bear to read through the entire thread

I wouldn't read this whole thing either

 

[Diamondpilot]

Oddly enough, GM and Ford fights make more sense to me than this does.

On that note...While peeking around corners at Disney, they have the biggest fleet of Chevy trucks I've ever seen...Sorry, couldn't help it...True though.

I agree with you on the tranny argument. Crazy.

As for Disney using GM trucks. Makes sense, its the land of make believe. :laughing:

Chris

 

[timswi]

I agree with you on the tranny argument. Crazy.

As for Disney using GM trucks. Makes sense, its the land of make believe. :laughing:

Chris

Ohhhhhhhh...Got me on that.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Ohhhhhhhh...Got me on that.

All in good fun. You set yourself up though.:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Chris

 

[timswi]

All in good fun. You set yourself up though.:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Chris

Yes I did.....

 

[brokenot]

Broke, since you have the manual. How much trans fluid does it tell you to change?

That's a good one. Take a peek at the service manual scans that were posted. One the second page of the scans posted, it says how much fluid there will be to replace if the pan is dropped. It also says how much will need to be added if the entire trans and torque converter were empty.

So I guess basically what it's saying is that....oddly enough....the manufacturer is very aware of how much fluid gets changed via the recommended procedure done at the recommended interval.

It's weird how the internet doesn't need to be consulted in order to learn these "secrets" they don't want you to know.

Now that would really be a silly waste of my time, since I'm not the one getting excited or upset because people won't do it my way. But if you'd like to do that, I'll be glad to give you the dealer's name.

I'm not going to contact the dealer you put so much trust in, because doing so wouldn't do me any good. Now, on the other hand, if you presented them with something and were standing there yourself to witness the look on their faces, well....

 

[Bird]

I'm not going to contact the dealer you put so much trust in, because doing so wouldn't do me any good.

Well, it would do you more good that it would do me.:laughing: After all, I'm happy with what the dealer and I are doing, and have no objections whatever to you doing as you please. You're the one who's unhappy about it.:laughing::laughing:

 

[brokenot]

You're the one who's unhappy about it

For the last, (and hopefully FINAL), time, I'm not "unhappy" about whatever anyone chooses to do with their own vehicle.

What I'm concerned about, are the folks that might stumble upon threads like this while searching for information on the topic. Time and time again, the sheer "volume" of posts implying this or that, tend to overwhelm the accurate posts made by one or two people. This particular situation aside, I can guarantee that I spend a lot more time repairing/re-doing things that have been done by owners when they've chosen to ignore a manufacturer's recommendation, and instead go with what "some guy told me".

The point you raised in this quote intrigues me:

And I've known and trusted them a lot longer than I've known you

What I don't get, (and never will quite frankly), is that a lot of people go looking for information on topics and when they find something out there on the web that they're inclined for some reason to agree with, then they *automatically* trust that information and the person that provided it. That person suddenly isn't some random stranger....they're "trustworthy". Why? Often times, the information they've provided is incomplete, wrongly interpreted, or.....not even there. It just cracks me up that one guy says he read a study done in a lab years ago, for instance....and we never get to see it. But then, a few posts later, somebody refers to that alleged study. Because, well...it's now "factual".

Take a few minutes and read every post I've made in this thread. I haven't asked you to trust me, I've been wondering aloud why you wouldn't trust the manufacturer that built the vehicle in the first place.

So there you go.

:thumbsup:

 

[Diamondpilot]

Trust you local mechanic, plain and simple.

Chris

 

[crashz]

A little off topic Brokenot, but to reply to your last post, information in the internet is typically taken with a grain of salt by most folks. As well as it should be. There is alot of false infor and unsubstantiated claims out there. Take Wikipedia for example. Personally I trust very little of it, but it usually makes for an interesting read!

 

[deerefan]

I just performed the first pan off svc on my 97 f150 with about 180k miles. All other services were flushes. The fluid had about 50k miles on it. There was not much debris in the pan but the filter was black. I will svc the trans this way from now on. It saved me about $100. I used castrol high mileage mercon 5qts. I will say I noticed better performance after the svc. The condition of the filter had me concerned. It's like the flush pulled debris from the pan and lodged it in the filter. This was an easy task for someone with basic mechanic skills. The filter and fluid cost about $45. I am not saying the flush did not work. Heck, I have 180k on the original trans. Is the ford 4R70W known to be a solid trans?

 

[jejeosborne]

Wow I read the whole thread and unfortunately certain posts said the same thing over and over. One should do what they feel is the best after becoming educated on all possible options.
I certainly take everything I read with a grain of salt including manufacturers recommendations. For example, I change my oil more often than 7500 miles as spelled in the owners manual. Manufactures don't AlWAYS have the best advice, remember Ford's recommended tire pressures for the Explorer that killed hundreds? I also never do anything just because that is the way it has always been done or I would never improve. Processes and technology improves every minute I live. I am not against or resisting "change".............or "flush". LMAO

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I just performed the first pan off svc on my 97 f150 with about 180k miles. All other services were flushes. The fluid had about 50k miles on it. There was not much debris in the pan but the filter was black. I will svc the trans this way from now on. It saved me about $100. I used castrol high mileage mercon 5qts. I will say I noticed better performance after the svc. The condition of the filter had me concerned. It's like the flush pulled debris from the pan and lodged it in the filter. This was an easy task for someone with basic mechanic skills. The filter and fluid cost about $45. I am not saying the flush did not work. Heck, I have 180k on the original trans. Is the ford 4R70W known to be a solid trans?

deerefan I think your example is evidence a power flush kicks up the mud in the pan. The 'bucket' method where one uses the transmission pump to push the old fluid out through the torque converter, transmission cooler and out the return line opening into the bucket leaves the mud in the bottom of the pan and out of the filter.

The local Ford dealer does drop the pan every other flush so the filter is replaced.

 

[timswi]

deerefan I think your example is evidence a power flush kicks up the mud in the pan. The 'bucket' method where one uses the transmission pump to push the old fluid out through the torque converter, transmission cooler and out the return line opening into the bucket leaves the mud in the bottom of the pan and out of the filter.

The local Ford dealer does drop the pan every other flush so the filter is replaced.

It is a '97 too...Most of the new trucks don't have filters anymore, just screens ...Including fuel filters. I would go old school pan-drop on pre-2000 stuff.

 

[brokenot]

A little off topic Brokenot, but to reply to your last post, information in the internet is typically taken with a grain of salt by most folks. As well as it should be.

I agree that some folks take the information and advice they see posted on the 'net with a grain of salt, but then again a whole lot of 'em don't.

There's this really absurd notion that "finding out" something on the web is akin to being let in on the secret password, or shown the secret handshake. Suddenly, being "in on" whatever the big secret is trumps things like the ability to remain objective.

 

[Bird]

I can guarantee that I spend a lot more time repairing/re-doing things that have been done by owners

I can certainly believe that. I spent a lot of time repairing/rebuilding mechanics' air tools after they tried to fix them themselves.:laughing:

I agree that some folks take the information and advice they see posted on the 'net with a grain of salt, but then again a whole lot of 'em don't.

Yep, I'm one who does, but I guess you know that by now.:laughing: I do believe in going by the manufacturers' recommendations on things (but I change oil & filters more frequently than recommended), but occasionally the manufacturer makes mistakes, too. I could probably give you more examples than you'd want to read. How about a 1999 Kubota manual that called for CC/CD motor oil? Or the service manual for my '89 Chev. truck that said all 4 head lights would be on when you used high beam (GM changed the trucks, but didn't change the manuals). I agreed that Ford says to change the fluid, but doesn't say how, so you say that since it doesn't specifically say "flush" that shouldn't be done. The manual for IR231 impact wrenches shows exploded views and tells all about pulling the air motor out of the housing. But it does not tell you that it will be impossible to do on the majority of them unless you first heat the housing with something like a propane torch.

But I'll admit you've made me curious at least.:laughing: So this morning, I called another Ford dealer's service department (biggest in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area; 5 dealerships, and I used to use them). They only machine flush. Then I called an independent chain; the only one for which AAA gurantees any repairs made for their members. They only machine flush. So then I called another independent chain which has a good reputation in the area. That guy said there are different recommendations for different models, but for my '02 Crown Vic, it could be done either way, but his personal preference is to drop the pan.

You don't suppose there could actually be more than one "right" way, do you?:laughing:

 

[crashz]

Is the ford 4R70W known to be a solid trans?

I don't think its known to be a problematic transmission, but it can be destroyed. I had one in my 2001 F150, and found it to be the best part of the truck. It shifted just as smooth an positively at 120K miles, as the day I bought it new. I remember reading on a few forums that people had troubles with them, but usually they would admit that the transmission had never been serviced.

 

[deerefan]

I don't think its known to be a problematic transmission, but it can be destroyed. I had one in my 2001 F150, and found it to be the best part of the truck. It shifted just as smooth an positively at 120K miles, as the day I bought it new. I remember reading on a few forums that people had troubles with them, but usually they would admit that the transmission had never been serviced.

I have noticed a big difference since I serviced it. It was holding gears a little long and slow to downshift. Now, it performs much better. All I ever did before was get it flushed. This is the first time I dropped the pan and changed the filter. The filter I removed was very dirty, probably causing the poor performance.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Glad to hear it is shifting better. New ATF seems to always make them shift better.

 

[brokenot]

Glad to hear it is shifting better. New ATF seems to always make them shift better

You intentionally ignored this part of his post, highlighted in red:

I have noticed a big difference since I serviced it. It was holding gears a little long and slow to downshift. Now, it performs much better. All I ever did before was get it flushed. This is the first time I dropped the pan and changed the filter. The filter I removed was very dirty, probably causing the poor performance

So back there on those posted service manual scans a couple of pages ago where it says to replace the filter, (and while you're in there you should also inspect this or that), it's *almost* as if the manufacturer knows what they're talking about when it comes to fluid changing procedures at recommended intervals.

Too easy, couldn't resist.