Top Three Vintage Tractors

[bakerg]

When my grandpa was alive he used to talk about taking his lunch on the seat of his new B plowing virgin land in northwest Iowa.

We had a B with a loader that my dad use to move manure out of the cow barn, don't think he was eating his lunch while doing that.:laughing::laughing:
I actually still have the tractor in the shed waiting to be restored.

 

[Soundguy]

think all the electrics and plastic parts for that 3400 are gonna be here in 60 years?

If there were near a million of them.. yeah.. but there won't be.

you don't see production runs that high any more due to the number of models out at a time. when a tractor manufacturer is making a single model, or limited number of models at a time.. and for a large year range.. and have it so that parts can span a couple decade range and still fit.. that's where you get machine longevity.

have a part that fits 20-30 ys of tractors that each have high production runs.. thus more likely that part will still be in production 60 ys later.

soundguy

Well, we just rebuilt dads 8n last year.

I can say for sure that it had been rebuilt at least once before that.

It also shows evidence that the engine threw a rod out the side of the block at some point in the past as well. It was a very good and sound repair whoever did it many moons ago. But the point is people dont make them kind of repairs as often anymore.

It also has a cracked transmission bell housing. As well as it has been repainted at least twice before.

And just comparing it side-by-side with my L3400, there are some things that are built noticabally better on my L3400 vs the 8n. Like all the 3PH stuff is MUCH beefier on the kubota. The castings and axles appear to be just as solid, and the tin is just as thin and prone to rusting through on the old 8n as well.

Yes, tractors of the old days were built quite well and made to last. BUT, I think current tractors are built just as good and would last equally as long if given the chance. If there were over 500,000 L3400's (or any current CUT) made in ~1950, I am sure there would be just as many of them around as there are 8n's today.

The problem is that we currently live in a throw-away soceity. So I doubt they will ever get a chance to prove themselves. But only time will tell.

 

[milkman636]

#1 Ford 9n
#2 John Deere Model B
#3 whichever model had the first pto that didn't involve jacking the tractor

Seems like the "dooodlebug" should get at least a mention in this thread. The do-it-yourselfer in me wants to put it around #5 on the list.

 

[LD1]

think all the electrics and plastic parts for that 3400 are gonna be here in 60 years?

If there were near a million of them.. yeah.. but there won't be.

you don't see production runs that high any more due to the number of models out at a time. when a tractor manufacturer is making a single model, or limited number of models at a time.. and for a large year range.. and have it so that parts can span a couple decade range and still fit.. that's where you get machine longevity.

have a part that fits 20-30 ys of tractors that each have high production runs.. thus more likely that part will still be in production 60 ys later.

soundguy

Well, I think we can agree to disagree here.


I think it was the mentality of farmers/owners back then that kept the old iron around. The willingness to do what needed to be done to keep the tractor running.

I think todays throw-it-away mindset is going to be the main reason todays tractors wont be around in 50years, NOT because of quality and build.

The other thing the tractors of the 40's and 50's had going is that they were quickly being out paced by the HP race. Tractors got ALOT bigger really quick. And quickly made the 8n more of a wagon puller and less of a "farm" tractor.

These newer CUT's with 4wd and FEL take a beating. And a lot of times by inexperienced operators. Whereas back in the day, if you had a tractor, you werent a city-slicker-turned-country boy and trying to learn something new. Back then, ya grew up with the equipment, had more respect for it, and cared for it better as a whole compared to today. But this is just my opinion.

 

[Soundguy]

I just don't see it as a agree to disagree issue.

If I go buy a 28000$ tractor and 5 ys later it blows up a 4500$ engine.. I'm GOING TO FIX that engine instead of buying a new 28000$ tractor.

and there can be NO DOUBT that higher production runs account for increased parts support down the line. that's simply proven fact.. not hypothesis.

soundguy

Well, I think we can agree to disagree here.


I think it was the mentality of farmers/owners back then that kept the old iron around. The willingness to do what needed to be done to keep the tractor running.

I think todays throw-it-away mindset is going to be the main reason todays tractors wont be around in 50years, NOT because of quality and build.

The other thing the tractors of the 40's and 50's had going is that they were quickly being out paced by the HP race. Tractors got ALOT bigger really quick. And quickly made the 8n more of a wagon puller and less of a "farm" tractor.

These newer CUT's with 4wd and FEL take a beating. And a lot of times by inexperienced operators. Whereas back in the day, if you had a tractor, you werent a city-slicker-turned-country boy and trying to learn something new. Back then, ya grew up with the equipment, had more respect for it, and cared for it better as a whole compared to today. But this is just my opinion.

 

[LD1]

I just don't see it as a agree to disagree issue.

If I go buy a 28000$ tractor and 5 ys later it blows up a 4500$ engine.. I'm GOING TO FIX that engine instead of buying a new 28000$ tractor.

and there can be NO DOUBT that higher production runs account for increased parts support down the line. that's simply proven fact.. not hypothesis.

soundguy

But with these smaller tractors being marketed toward us smalltime homeowner/hobby farm types, the odds of us blowing up and engine @ 5 years are slim to none.

It would take most of us 15+ years to even get to 2000-3000 hours. And at that point, a 15-20 year old tractor most people in this day wouldn't opt to rebuild. Hence the throw it away mentality.

But rewind to 60 years ago, if you bought a 8n and in 15-20 years of service the engine blew, a much larger percentage would have chosen to rebuild it vs today. Where as most today would just opt to either part it out, junk it, or whatever and go get a newer tractor.

I am just simply amazed at how many people say things like "they dont make them like they used to". I personally see no evidence to support that. I think my L3400 is built every bit as rugged and would last just as long as an older N if given the chance.

These newer ones DO have more electronics, sensors, etc that can fail. So I guess that makes them harder to work on and not as reliable in a way. But properly maintained and taken care of, and if parts are still avaliable, I see no reason at all why current tractors wont last just as long. But only time will tell.

 

[Soundguy]

you are compairing raisens to apples.

a 119ci gas engine in a ford can be swung from a tree or heck.. in-framed and shade tree rebuilt in a few hours depeding on if it needs liners or not. if it needs liners, kits can be had in the 450-500$ range.

if no liners.. then less. with no cam bearings, you are throwing in some rod and main bearing shells, polishing the crank, IF that, replacing some seals, rings, honing the cyls's and a quickie manual valve lapp by hand. ie.. this is lawnmower engine technology.

not a higher tech diesel with injection pumps.. etc.

i've got no problems setting down for 15 minutes and throwing a 15$ kit in an N carb, and knowing what it will do when I bolt it back on.. no instructions needed.

an injector pump? I don't have the equipment to even test that?

i don't think people are less willing.. I think they are less capable now.. add to that a more complex machine.. and there's where you get the issues.

easy to fix machine + someone with some earned hands on experience + cheap parts vs a much harder to fix machine requireing specialized equipment the average person don't have in their garage ( you got a injector pop off tester? i don't! ), vs realitively small % of the population with DIESEL mechanic skills, + more expensive parts.

remember.. in the 70's everyone's dad knew how to set points.

now?

i don't doubt on an individual scale that you could care for a piece of equipment and keep it going for decades. IE.. you and your 3400.. keep it fixed and maintained as you go.

the one kicker is reduced numbers. even if you keep your 3400 going.. if it has reduced production numbers.. in60 ys.. getting repair parts may mean a contract with a CNC shop!!!

soundguy

But with these smaller tractors being marketed toward us smalltime homeowner/hobby farm types, the odds of us blowing up and engine @ 5 years are slim to none.

It would take most of us 15+ years to even get to 2000-3000 hours. And at that point, a 15-20 year old tractor most people in this day wouldn't opt to rebuild. Hence the throw it away mentality.

But rewind to 60 years ago, if you bought a 8n and in 15-20 years of service the engine blew, a much larger percentage would have chosen to rebuild it vs today. Where as most today would just opt to either part it out, junk it, or whatever and go get a newer tractor.

I am just simply amazed at how many people say things like "they dont make them like they used to". I personally see no evidence to support that. I think my L3400 is built every bit as rugged and would last just as long as an older N if given the chance.

These newer ones DO have more electronics, sensors, etc that can fail. So I guess that makes them harder to work on and not as reliable in a way. But properly maintained and taken care of, and if parts are still avaliable, I see no reason at all why current tractors wont last just as long. But only time will tell.

 

[LD1]

I agree that parts may become a problem in the future.

But when you talk about how simple and easy to rebuild an older tractor is, well it was hight tech stuff in the day. You see what technology has done in the last 50-60 years, imagine how low-tech our current tractors may seem in 50-60 years:confused2:

Wether or not my L3400 is still around in 50 years is yet to be determined.

The point I am making is that it will probabally be for numerous reasons mentioned, like parts avalibility, limited production, etc. But certainly NOT because it isn't built as rugged or "built to last". It is built every bit as heavy-duty and rugged as an 8n. And somethings are even MORE rugged. But wether or not myself or future owners are willing to keep it running for 50 years will depend on things like you mention. Parts, willingness, equipment, etc. But again, not because it isnt built to last.

 

[Egon]

Base the comparison's on hours of run time pulling a proper load sized to the tractor. Many of the newer tractor's that are only a few years old will have more hours than an 8N. :thumbsup::thumbsup::

We now have many fewer farms covering many more acres with much larger equipment. That means fewer machines required.

There will be some exceptions of course.

 

[Massey_lover]

Allis certainly had some breakthroughs in their time, such as the model u (first tractor with pneumatic tires)... So did massey harris with the GP (4 wheel drive). It was minneapolis-moline that introduced electric start, and the farmalls proved that one tractor could be used effectively for field and belt work. In my opinion there really is no three most important tractors, but rather 50 years or so of innovation that has contributed to make farming what it is today. And by the way, it was the Ferguson-Brown, not the 9N, that had the first Ferguson System Draft Control 3 point hitch

 

[Egon]

In my opinion there really is no three most important tractors

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[jusalooking]

ok i will put my tought into this, As a owner of a repair shop i have rebuilt a few n tractors and a few bota,s , the n is just a simple motor ( i don,t even have to look in the book nomore for spec,s ), on the other hand on a kubota, they make things diffacult, as in them little springs on the injection pumps, or timing the pumps with them shims, or the main bearing ***. yes they are good motors, i have 2 myself, but you have to keep up with it, you can,t let stuff go like a bunch of farmers tend to do, and i can rebuilt the n,s cheaper, as far as 50 yrs from now, i won,t be here to see and if i am i will be drooling in my soup, i will take both while i am alive thu

 

[Egon]

you can,t let stuff go like a bunch of farmers tend to do

Do the Farmers who stay in business really do this?:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Soundguy]

i think part of the rugged comment also must focus on design.

IE.. machines with easy to replace wear parts tend to be repaired more often.

take a block with liner you can peel out and pop in when compression gets low. ie.. rings, new liners, and a hand valve lap.

that's 'yer back yard' type stuff.

contrast that with blocks that need to go to a machine shop to be bored out, then have liners installed etc. ( i'm not just compairing old to new.. but any to any ).

a machine that is not easy to repair won't be repaired as often or as well many times.

how many diesels do we see adicted to start fluid due to low compression because someone won't strip the block and send it in for an overbore and sleave job.. etc..

i much prefer machines that have been made easy to repair

in that reguard, the N has a few faults of it's on re the cam clearances in the block.

soundguy

I agree that parts may become a problem in the future.

But when you talk about how simple and easy to rebuild an older tractor is, well it was hight tech stuff in the day. You see what technology has done in the last 50-60 years, imagine how low-tech our current tractors may seem in 50-60 years:confused2:

Wether or not my L3400 is still around in 50 years is yet to be determined.

The point I am making is that it will probabally be for numerous reasons mentioned, like parts avalibility, limited production, etc. But certainly NOT because it isn't built as rugged or "built to last". It is built every bit as heavy-duty and rugged as an 8n. And somethings are even MORE rugged. But wether or not myself or future owners are willing to keep it running for 50 years will depend on things like you mention. Parts, willingness, equipment, etc. But again, not because it isnt built to last.

 

[Soundguy]

Do the Farmers who stay in business really do this?:thumbsup::thumbsup:

i have evidence parked in my barn that lotsa people simply don't maintain equipment.. run if for a 3-4 decades then sell it to me to restore..

I love it when I get machines and can read the dates on the filters and can see 10 nad 20 year old filters..

soundguy

 

[jusalooking]

Do the Farmers who stay in business really do this?:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Yes, i have had to use a crowbar to get airfilters out of skidsteers, it would surpise you how many wheel bearings i have replaced front and rear from late model 100 plus horsepower tractors from lack of grease, Grease is the cheapest thing you can use on a tractor

 

[Mace Canute]

Do the Farmers who stay in business really do this?:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Yes, they sure do. As a group, I think they are the worst for maintaining equipment considering they are the owners of it. We tend to expect that someone who doesn't own the equipment has a "don't give a s**t" attitude about maintenance so it's a bit amazing (and not in a good way) when owners exhibit the same attitude. Likewise on the amazing part when it comes to lubes in general. They'll scrimp to save pennies on a tube of grease or liter of oil that will be used on equipment worth a hundred thousand dollars and up. Go figure.

True story: About 4 years ago, the farmer who rented a 60 acre field from my buddy stopped in with his IH tractor because he was having charging problems and my buddy is a Journeyman Mechanic with mucho experience working on auto and industrial equipment. It was showing 40 amps charge rate on the meter all the time! My buddy did a bit of looking at it and it became obvious that sometime in the past, somebody had done a bunch of Mickey Mouse wiring on it, really butchered it in fact and there was a bit of loose wiring here and there, some of which would spark whenever it contacted the chassis. My buddy told him he thought the high charging rate was because of battery condition and that he needed to do some repairs to the wiring, especially with the bare wiring that was shorting out occasionally. Farmer's response was more or less that it had been like that for a long time without giving any problems and that was about all he said of it. Once he realized my buddy wasn't about to spend hours working on his equipment for free, he left. My buddy has work of his own he needed to get done and no time to work on his tractor. Fast forward a couple of years...the renter stopped in and was complaining his tractor just burned to the ground! We couldn't be sure but it certainly appeared that his wiring finally caught up to him and caused a spark that did ignite some chaff and got a fire going. His tractor also had quite a bit of spilled diesel on it and some hydraulic leaks that had never been washed off, so it was quite the torch waiting for a match!

 

[Soundguy]

this post says ALOT and i can't agree more.

in general.. at least on the older equipment especially the 'larger' ag stuff from 40 to 100 hp, maintenance usually occurs when something breaks completely. IE.. a sloppy steering arm is fixed when it shears off and needs welding..

or when oil pressre drops to -0- from low oil.. or the lift stops from low oil. that's when it gets maintained.

when the farmers mechanic abilities are exceeded the equipment is then left to set for 20 years because they won't sell it. then eventually I buy it.. and work for months getting it running and looking good again..

soundguy

Yes, they sure do. As a group, I think they are the worst for maintaining equipment considering they are the owners of it. We tend to expect that someone who doesn't own the equipment has a "don't give a s**t" attitude about maintenance so it's a bit amazing (and not in a good way) when owners exhibit the same attitude. Likewise on the amazing part when it comes to lubes in general. They'll scrimp to save pennies on a tube of grease or liter of oil that will be used on equipment worth a hundred thousand dollars and up. Go figure.

True story: About 4 years ago, the farmer who rented a 60 acre field from my buddy stopped in with his IH tractor because he was having charging problems and my buddy is a Journeyman Mechanic with mucho experience working on auto and industrial equipment. It was showing 40 amps charge rate on the meter all the time! My buddy did a bit of looking at it and it became obvious that sometime in the past, somebody had done a bunch of Mickey Mouse wiring on it, really butchered it in fact and there was a bit of loose wiring here and there, some of which would spark whenever it contacted the chassis. My buddy told him he thought the high charging rate was because of battery condition and that he needed to do some repairs to the wiring, especially with the bare wiring that was shorting out occasionally. Farmer's response was more or less that it had been like that for a long time without giving any problems and that was about all he said of it. Once he realized my buddy wasn't about to spend hours working on his equipment for free, he left. My buddy has work of his own he needed to get done and no time to work on his tractor. Fast forward a couple of years...the renter stopped in and was complaining his tractor just burned to the ground! We couldn't be sure but it certainly appeared that his wiring finally caught up to him and caused a spark that did ignite some chaff and got a fire going. His tractor also had quite a bit of spilled diesel on it and some hydraulic leaks that had never been washed off, so it was quite the torch waiting for a match!

 

[Egon]

From my experience growing up on a farm there were only two fellows in the neighbourhood that had run down equipment. They were also not very good or prosperous farmers.

The prosperous ones were mainly prosperous because their equipment was fixed during periods when not needed and usually provided good service when required. Crops were planted and harvested in a timely manner depending on weather conditions.

I do know that our tractors saw regular maintenance as did those of the neighbours.

 

[jusalooking]

I can show you a group of IH tractors that look better than the day they came from the factory, I myself have been there when they are cleaning out there manure pit, they have a 900 to 1200 head feedlot, There is plastic onthe floors inside of the cabs, When they are done everything is washed off and waxed, even the spreaders, Then i can drive 20 miles to another operation and in the driveway is a JD 6410 cab tractor burnt up, They never trade a combine in, they just park them behind a barn with about everything that has rolled in the driveway in the last 40 yrs, weeds 5ft tall, today i bought a 1980 JD 510 round baler that looks like new, it has never been out overnight, washed and waxed yearly, At least they had something left to sell besides scrap