HYD REMOTE QUESTION

[/pine]

...The Previous Owner Had This single Valve Piped Off The Return Line Of The Loader Control....

just curious...

Are you sure it is not "piped" off the PB port on the loader valve ??

where does the return line from the "single valve' terminate ?

 

[Kitz]

Its A IH 244 21hpv Not New. Not Big. But Im Not Wealhty Either. It Serves My Purpose. They Sell A Adapter Plate That Will Go To A Aux Valve So I Figure Any One Of The Drawings Should Be Sufficient. Weather The CHEAP Valve Will Hold Up Is Irrelevant.

 

[Kitz]

Pine: On My Loader Valve Has Supply in Return out And Power Beyond Port I Removed Plug And Tapped It But The Aux Valve is a Short Hose Off The Out [return] Port To Valves [In ] Port Then Out To Downstream Return

 

[Soundguy]

Its A IH 244 21hpv Not New. Not Big. But Im Not Wealhty Either. It Serves My Purpose. They Sell A Adapter Plate That Will Go To A Aux Valve So I Figure Any One Of The Drawings Should Be Sufficient. Weather The CHEAP Valve Will Hold Up Is Irrelevant.

it's not irrelevant if they blow each time you use the hyds.. cheapest aux valves I've seen are 80$ plus shipping.. or 100$ local.

if you blow a cheap one each time you use it because you are using the wrong valve.. then it's quite relevant... then again.. your money and equipment too..

soundguy

 

[Leejohn]

Pine: On My Loader Valve Has Supply in Return out And Power Beyond Port I Removed Plug And Tapped It But The Aux Valve is a Short Hose Off The Out [return] Port To Valves [In ] Port Then Out To Downstream Return

Kitz It looks like when you drilled and tapped that plug you just made 2 out ports. I think you need a BP plug before it well work right. At least that is how I'm reading it.

 

[J_J]

If you just tapped a section on the valve, then you don't have PB. The PB is a selected thread and depth, and a sleeve is inserted to block off the return fluid, and pass hyd fluid down stream to the input of another valve.

If it had a threaded plug in the port, then all you needed was the PB sleeve.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

One can say there is two different return flows in an open center system. There is flow straight from the pump, and flow straight from cylinders and motors.

The PB sleeve separates the cylinder return flow from the pump return flow... Only the pump return flow can be used for a down stream PB valve....

 

[SPYDERLK]

I agree that 500psi at operating RPM with nothing in use is high. However I dont know that it is not normal. I have a pressure gauge hard plumbed into the output line of the 17gpm pump on my 7520 before any contol valve. It reads up to 700 when the rpms are high and the hyd oil not warmed. When the oil is at operating temperature it goes to a little over 500psi. Thats a lot of power being wasted and Id like to do something about it.
larry

 

[AKKAMAAN]

I agree that 500psi at operating RPM with nothing in use is high. However I dont know that it is not normal. I have a pressure gauge hard plumbed into the output line of the 17gpm pump on my 7520 before any contol valve. It reads up to 700 when the rpms are high and the hyd oil not warmed. When the oil is at operating temperature it goes to a little over 500psi. Thats a lot of power being wasted and Id like to do something about it.
larry

Great to hear that you have a Gauge constantly plumbed to your system....:thumbsup:

Every piece of hydraulic equipment should have a pump pressure gauge plumbed in....especially open center system....

500psi ("stand by" pressure), yes it is high, but also just a "normal" part of hydraulics when you add one or more PB valve....or have undersized valves, filters and lines....

500psi-17gpm= 5hp = 3.7kW.....quite a "furnace"...

 

[J_J]

Just curious if anybody knows the GPM capability of the 3pt valve. It could be that the 3pt has less flow characteristics than a FEL valve. Maybe the FEL valve is a 12 GPM, and you are flowing 17 through it at high rpm. You could probably see where the restriction is by placing the gage in a large hose after each valve, with the hose going directly to tank.

A lot of valves I have researched, have a 300 to 500 psi limit on the out port. In my opinion that particular valve was never designed to be used with another valve. The out port would normally go directly to tank. I am also thinking that the hyd pressure that the 3pt uses, is way less than the FEL . Soundguy mentioned an unloader valve in the 3pt. Can you [ Soundguy ] elaborate further on the relief and the unloader correlation, and the position of the 3pt lever in ref to hyd flow.

I remember one tractor, that the if the 3pt lever was up all the way, it would feed an aux circuit at the back of the tractor. The question came up when the owner said he had no 3pt, and the owners manual said to push the lever down a little, and the fluid then went to the 3pt. Don't remember which tractor.

 

[Kitz]

AKKAMANN If The PB Blocks The Return Flow. Than Do You Need To Plug The PB Valves Return And Pipe It Off The Aux Valves Outlet Port. And If That Was The Case The PB Would Be The Same As The Return Line.

 

[J_J]

The PB sleeve directs the fluid from the cyl to the out port, allowing the pump flow to continue on through the PB outlet, to another valve.

How about some pictures of the valve, hoses and aux circuits.

 

[Soundguy]

ditto that. I read his 500 psi back pressure on an open center system as undersized lines, filters and valve orifices... ie.. flow restrictions.

might even be a undersized unloading or dump to sump exhaust valve.. etc.

soundguy

Great to hear that you have a Gauge constantly plumbed to your system....:thumbsup:

Every piece of hydraulic equipment should have a pump pressure gauge plumbed in....especially open center system....

500psi ("stand by" pressure), yes it is high, but also just a "normal" part of hydraulics when you add one or more PB valve....or have undersized valves, filters and lines....

500psi-17gpm= 5hp = 3.7kW.....quite a "furnace"...

 

[Soundguy]

Soundguy mentioned an unloader valve in the 3pt. Can you [ Soundguy ] elaborate further on the relief and the unloader correlation, and the position of the 3pt lever in ref to hyd flow.

I remember one tractor, that the if the 3pt lever was up all the way, it would feed an aux circuit at the back of the tractor. The question came up when the owner said he had no 3pt, and the owners manual said to push the lever down a little, and the fluid then went to the 3pt. Don't remember which tractor.

I will tell you what I know about a ford system anyway. what anybody else uses .. I'm not up on..

the unload style setup took pump flow and dumped it to sump and had a lil back pressure to keep the unloading valve 'alive' when you raised the 3pt lever, oil was directed at the lift cyl, and then it 'unloaded' the oil back to sump once the 3pt raised to the level you set the lever at thru the use of feed back linkage and a cam and cam follower pin to ride the cam, thus sensinging how high the lift was in corelation to where the 3pt lever was.

a check kept the oil in the cyl.

the relief was plumbed in between the pump and the top cover ( which contained the valving and cyl )..

alot of people would chain the 3pt arms down and remove a pipe plug from a test port and run a hose to a open center valve or a SA cyl, and then when you raised the 3pt lever, the lift cyl could not move so oil was instead directed out the test port to exercise the SA cyl, or flow thru an oC valve which had it's return directed to the sump thru a fill cap. one would leave the 3pt lever up to keep the fluid flowing thru the valve... or if it was running a SA cyl, you would pull the lift lever back to unload the oil flow from the pump back to the sump and the check still held the cyl extended, untill you lowered the 3pt lever allowing the cyl to exhaust just like the 3pt cyl would.

there was also an option to get a diverter valve that pretty much did the same thing without having to chain the lift arms down.. it just literally sent oilk out it's diversion port OR to the 3pt... depending on where the selector was.

depending ont he model you could also have a setup that paralleled the external cyl with the 3pt.. so that both the 3pt and external cyl would lift.. obviously whichever had the lowest load lifted first.. and due to position control linkage, the flow was unloaded and dumped to sump once the 3pt went all the way up even if the aux cyl wasn't.. an example would be an aux cyl on a lift disc, but no load ont he 3pt.. in this parallel setup, the lift arms would come up but the disc would not lift because the 3pt arms went up and 'shut off' the flow.. etc..
a load on the 3pt arms.. or chains would then make the disc lift.. etc..

that's the cliff notes version anyway. there is more to it than that.. but that is the basics of the operation.

on my naa, I interrupted flow from the pump, after the relief valve, sent it to a oc sa/da PB valve , and returned the flow to a modified ( blocked off ) top cover plate to get oil back to the 3pt.. i did this to run a loader on my naa using onboard hyds. later fords from 55+ had a standard hyd blank cover to slap a valve on to run remotes.. 53-54 NAA had a non standard blank cover and it is virtually $impossible$ to find a top cover valve.. thus some clever guy came up with a way to remov ethe lil cover, tap the port the oil flowed thru the cover and install a plug, and then drilling the end of the cavity for a fluid return, so you could return oil to the 3pt, after diverting it lower down on the machine right after the relief valve from a test port.. works good, and lets me have a remote or a loader on my naa.. if i want to return it to normal and get rid of the valve, i remove the lil cover, pull the plug out, and swap the plug to that hole int he return cavity then reinstall and then plug the test port and it will run as normal..

soundguy

 

[Kitz]

Hi All. Well I got a pic of the valves. Ill Explain How These Were Hooked Up On My Tractor. was piped to [a] went to [d] and [e] went to return is anything wrong with that? Another question Is if the PB [c] adapter blocks off return wouldnt and [c] be the same? Also back to my original question. The configurations i have are mainly curiousity. Can a valve like the one on left be cut in any of those ways and work. Thanks

 

[J_J]

In your picture, the PB is plugged. The PB plug does not block off return. The PB adapter sleeve blocks the cyl output from going downstream with the main flow. The cyl return or out should go to tank.

C should go to D on your remote.

B should go to tank