Please help me pick the right welder.

[tuolumne]

I'm sure this has been done many times.

I am a very green welder. I hope to take a class at the local tech school in the near future. Please do not laugh at my welding ambitions noted below. In the past I have done a number of repairs on farm equipment with an old thunderbolt stick welder. I have never enjoyed the welding experience, but most of that is due to lots of old rods and a very poor helmet. Then again, those welds have held. I have also borrowed a wire feed mig and a non-gas wire feed (both 110) for various small projects. Again, the welds have held in sometimes high fatigue conditions, but the penetration and weld quality were never up to my standards (I'm a structural engineer). This is all most likely due to the welder, not the equipment. However, I'm the welder that I have to deal with! In all cases, the prep was very clean, but wire reels may have been old. In any case, the two gas units did neater work than the other unit.

I have no cutting tools currently other than a sawzall, so if a plasma combination setup makes some kind of sense I am open to that. I do intend to get a small chop saw for cutting the steel tubing.

My current need is to build a small sawmill. This involves lots of 1/4" HSS etc. There will be a lot of welding, so the cost of consumeables is important to me. This causes me to lean toward a stick welder (and buy some good rods!) I can imagine doing many other similar fabrication and repair projects around our homestead using mild steel.

I have two specific future projects however that make me think I'll need something other than a stick welder (including some classes). I intend to build an aluminum utility trailer and a stainless steel flue pan for sugaring. What I am wondering is whether to invest in TIG capabilities now in some kind of combo unit or whether to invest in a separate unit in the future.

Thanks for any input.

Edit: I forgot budget...whatever I save by not having someone else do it. I like the challenge of DIY. Somewhere in the 500-1500 range for all equipment seems reasonable. This includes helmet, startup consumables, clamps, gloves etc.

 

[kennyd]

I would suggest getting a stick machine to build the sawmill, it will be big-and outside and stick is a lot more tolorant/forgiving about that. TIG is like soldering, everything must be CLEAN and well prepared, and because of the sheilding gas needed it does not do well outside. Stick is also cheaper up front and cheaper to use.

The $1500 budget also suggests a stick machine...you can will/easily spend twice that on a TIG machine alone. Get a good helmet, a PortaBand type bandsaw, a couple 4 1/2" angle grinders, clamps, A mice jacket and maybe a chopsaw and start learning...

 

[crazyal]

I would suggest a MIG with a spool gun (either as a package or down the road when you are ready to weld aluminum then get the spool gun). I'm no expert on TIG but while it is a great form of welding it seams much slower than a MIG. If you've already done a little with a MIG you probably got a feel for it, it's not too hard.

A stick would be fine but to do your other projects you need a different machine or a TIG attachment, I know nothing about them. I would think you would want to use gas shielding, not sure if the TIG attachment could do that.

I'm guessing a 200amp MIG with what you need may be around your upper limit but it would be up for all your tasks.

 

[Shield Arc]

I have just about every tool you'd ever need. I do not have a lathe tho. I too would suggest a stick welder, and a port-a-band. Between my Ellis 1800, and port-a-band my chop saw has about an inch of dust on it. And my Hypertherm 1250 has about 1/2-inch of dust on it.
To really help your budget I'd suggest looking at Everlast PowerArc 200, I just bought one month or so ago, use it everyday, well except Christmas day:laughing:. I am so impressed with it. You could buy a scratch start Tig torch and Tig weld your stainless steel project with it as well.

 

[Transit]

Do not put the cart before the horse. If I were you, take the welding class first to see all the processes than chose what you like and need.

 

[tuolumne]

How long does a blade last on those portable bandsaws without being water/oil cooled?

 

[kennyd]

How long does a blade last on those portable bandsaws without being water/oil cooled?

A long time if you use the slower speed. You can also get a lubricant stick that you can apply to the blade for heavy cuts.

 

[beppington]

OP: You seem to be in a very similar situation to me a few months ago, except I really had no welding experience at all, just always wanted to weld & finally decided to get into it. Here's a thread I started that reads just like yours with lots of replies: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/179118-welding-virgin-needs-direction.html

I did end up taking a community ed welding class & have decided to "probably" get a 110V GMAW machine such as a Millermatic 140 Auto-Set. I'm very particular & want the smooth, clean welds the gas provides, along with not wanting to spend time cleaning up a splattered mess of a weld, which is what I'm sure I'd make if I used flux or stick. Maybe 110V won't be big enough, but it's gonna be my first welder anyway, as soon as the holidays are over :thumbsup:

 

[Shield Arc]

(I'm a structural engineer).

Being a structural engineer I'll bet welding school will bore you to death. The theory part anyway! I'd suggest you take a trip down to you local welding supply, ask the counter guys if they'd suggest someone to you who could give you some one on one instruction. I've taken guys in, and in just three to four Saturdays have them pass the D1.1 tests. There is absolutely nothing like one on one instruction!

 

[beppington]

If an engineer is bored by theory, he shouldn't be an engineer :thumbsup:

 

[Shield Arc]

If an engineer is bored by theory, he shouldn't be an engineer :thumbsup:

Ever heard the term "been there done that"?

 

[AKwelder]

I think the class is a good idea, and if it is a good class it should at least show you the different processes.

If you ask the teacher he may give you a good word of who to buy from. Most of those teachers are in tight with one parts house or another, and you may get a deal. Also they know who in the area may be selling something you want

Good luck, and keep us posted

 

[k0ua]

One more for the stick and the bandsaw. I bought a cheap welder, Everlast PowerArc 160 it is just like Shields except a little smaller. but I spend some money on a Grizzley bandsaw. I am not sorry about either. The bandsaw is worth the money. A lot of guys on here hate the Chinese Welders, I like mine so far. I have build several projects with it. You can do scratch start TIG with it. No HF start, no pedal to taper off, and post flow of gas is up to you to time.
Also will not do Aluminum. it is DC only. so steel only. but for your sawmill you need stick. and having a welder you can put on your shoulder and carry around ( about 25 pounds) might be handy for you in the field. The sawmill sounds like big thick steel to me.. a MIG will to do that size steel will be quite a bit of money. and then there is the gas outside thing., You can use flux core wire to get around that though and not need gas. The bandsaw is so much better than a Sawzall, I know that was all I had for many years also. You cannot make straight cuts with a sawzall. you can whack things off, but you cannot do fitups. I can make precise 45 degree mitres (or any degree for that matter) with my Grizzley bandsaw. It is just like using your table saw to make woodworking projects, only steel.. No loud noise, no sparks, very little heat. It is the way to go. All that said, I am a hobbyist steelworker, and I have opinions like everyone else, but you should pay more attention to the more professional guys on here, like 4shorts, and ShieldArc. and Mark from Everlast has a lot of experience too. course he sells Everlast welders. I dont weld for a living, (I am an engineer) but this is what I think you should do, get a good stick welder, for starters, and get a bandsaw.
James K0UA

 

[rjmack]

Edit: I forgot budget...whatever I save by not having someone else do it. I like the challenge of DIY. Somewhere in the 500-1500 range for all equipment seems reasonable. This includes helmet, startup consumables, clamps, gloves etc.

the items in this picture (and what you can't see in that tool box) will probably set you back more than $1500.00 and you don't even have a welding machine yet.

if you want some throw away junk welder for cheap... they are flogging them right here... i think i'll even buy one myself.

if you want something decent that you will be able to get parts for in 20 years...

a structural engineer shouldn't have much trouble finding out which are the two brands to buy, or being able to afford them..

 

[crazyal]

So you stick guys, how would you weld Aluminum or stainless for boiling sap? I'm not a big stick guy so I'm not up on all the things they can do.

 

[crazyal]

How long does a blade last on those portable bandsaws without being water/oil cooled?

I use a new Milwaukee hand held band saw. It's more powerful and cuts at a faster blade speed. The blades last a long time. Buy in bulk though. They sell them in single and three packs or you can buy them in unpackaged form from people on ebay and on the net. I think I paid about $3 each for Milwaukee 14/18 variable tooth blades.

I've noticed they don't usually dull. What happens is teeth break off and get stuck in what your cutting. You have to remember what dulls blades is cutting harden steel or cutting in a back and forth motion like a hacksaw or sawzall. When you pull the blade back you are in effect trying to cut with the back side of the teeth. If you do break a tooth off and you keep trying to cut you can break more teeth off until you end up with sections of blade with no teeth. If you stop and cut from a different direction you can get more life out of the blade.

My guess is maybe only 1 blade but it could take two or three to cut all the steel needed for small sawmill. Your sawzall will work but it will take quite a bit longer and will not be as accurate as the bandsaw.

 

[k0ua]

So you stick guys, how would you weld Aluminum or stainless for boiling sap? I'm not a big stick guy so I'm not up on all the things they can do.

Al. the results I have seen with Aluminum rods, is not good. Stainless some better with a stick machine.. but TIG with a proper HF Tig machine or MIG with proper wire/Spoolgun for Aluminum would be better.. As with all things and expert can get good result where the average person might not, but I have never seen any good beads with stick on Alum. Stuck together yes, but not pretty.
James K0UA

 

[dstig1]

My current need is to build a small sawmill. This involves lots of 1/4" HSS etc. There will be a lot of welding, so the cost of consumeables is important to me.

Well I ain't no expert here (by far...) but you said HSS...to me that means High Speed Steel. Which really isn't even all that close to steel with all the alloying elements added. You seriously looking to weld a sawmill from HSS? Or am I missing something? Of course I am a materials engineer, so HSS may mean something totally different to you...

Assuming I'm missing something here.... Consensus seems to be that for outdoor work, stick or flux core is the best route. You can find cheap stick welders if you are patient. I found a nice AC/DC Lincoln tombstone for $150 or thereabouts. You can do a lot with something like that. Certainly will work for any typical 1/4" weldable steel. SS rods are available, but the alum rods sound like a very much "emergency" sort of thing to use. So I'd say take the class, and start searching for a used stick welder (AC and DC, if you can). That will get you started for sure, and on the cheap. Then figure out if you need TIG or MIG for the rest of your work. You'll always have the stick for outdoor work, heavy stuff, etc.

my 2 centums

 

[General Lee]

My first career, I was a steel fabricator. Left that to pursue my dream career. Anyway, I'm not gonna give advice on which machine to get (stick or wire fed) because to me they both have their advantages. I will add this: Mig welders with argon are not user friendly outdoors. The slightest breeze and your weld is crap. For outdoor projects I would prefer a stick machine with low hydrogen rods. Although there is a learning curve with them, they give you the ability to weld upside down, vertical and flat. For nice looking welds when welding flat, I love the "jet rods" They are easy to learn with. I think they are 7024's. Low hydrogen is 6018 I believe. (Its been over 10 years) I do love a nice mig welder when working indoors. Once you get the hang of it, either machine will do as long as it has decent temp ranges to penetrate the steel. I don't like the flux core machine, would rather just pic up a stick welder. If you do choose a mig, get argon.

 

[tuolumne]

the items in this picture (and what you can't see in that tool box) will probably set you back more than $1500.00 and you don't even have a welding machine yet.

if you want some throw away junk welder for cheap... they are flogging them right here... i think i'll even buy one myself.

if you want something decent that you will be able to get parts for in 20 years...

a structural engineer shouldn't have much trouble finding out which are the two brands to buy, or being able to afford them..

...except that the structural engineer moved away from Big City and is trying to make a go of homesteading and odd jobs! I do have angle grinders, wire wheel and a place to work.

Folks keep talking about putting these welders on your shoulder and walking off. Just how long of an extension cord do you have!