Erratic Hydraulics

[wdchyd]

Gary, you could right, it just looks odd having the PB sleeve not be lined up with the center (pressure core) of the CV.....

 

[Gary Sweat]

Gary, you could right, it just looks odd having the PB sleeve not be lined up with the center (pressure core) of the CV.....

I didn't catch that fact the wrong photo uploaded. Here is the one I thought I was putting up that had the parts labeled.

 

[Gary Sweat]

OK, I went ahead and ran the tractor in the garage. (cough, cough). Here is what I timed:

1000 rpm - loader to full height = 14 seconds

2000 rpm - Loader to full height = 11 seconds

Cylinders are 1.75" at 19" stroke

So there is some increase in speed just not much IMO

I also checked the return line to the tank and there is no oil flowing with the joystick in center position. Quite messy when you move it thoe.

 

[wdchyd]

Yea, that's normal....the flow going back to tank should be the waste oil coming from the opposing side of the cyl you're operating......

The flow going to the 3ph should be constant until you operate the FEL (then that flow goes to cyl's)

 

[TRH]

Just returned from Christmaas with the in-laws and no computer.

I thought about needed to change the hydraulic oil again, but was hoping I would not have to crawl inder the tractor soon, since it will not fit indoors and we are in the middle of the rainy season (1 Oct to 30 Sept) in Seattle.

For clarification...I try to use the attachments at 2000 to 2500 rpms so I don't think that is a problem. Just that change in rpm makes a noticeable change in bucket speed. Neither raising the bucket nor curling stops in motion. The problem occcurs only when I stop it and then restart the motion. It does not seem to matter what position the bucket is in, sometime it lifts or tips and sometimes it does not. It seems like there is a little dirt somewhere that stops the oil flow until I change the position of the bucket.

In addition to being educational, the various replies used some abbreviations that I could not figure out. What are regen, CV and PB? Also where should I permanently mount a pressure gauge on a Ford 1900?

 

[J_J]

TRH

Quote:

regen, CV and PB? Also where should I permanently mount a pressure gauge on a Ford 1900?


Regen is the process of the fluid from the rod side of the cyl added to the base of the cyl to increase the speed of cyl operation. More speed, less power.

CV is short for Control Valve.

PB is Power Beyond, which allows another valve downstream to use the hyd fluid.

A good place to install a hyd gage would be to tee in at the pressure port if it gives a good sight plane.

 

[Gary Sweat]

Just returned from Christmaas with the in-laws and no computer.

I thought about needed to change the hydraulic oil again, but was hoping I would not have to crawl inder the tractor soon, since it will not fit indoors and we are in the middle of the rainy season (1 Oct to 30 Sept) in Seattle.

For clarification...I try to use the attachments at 2000 to 2500 rpms so I don't think that is a problem. Just that change in rpm makes a noticeable change in bucket speed. Neither raising the bucket nor curling stops in motion. The problem occcurs only when I stop it and then restart the motion. It does not seem to matter what position the bucket is in, sometime it lifts or tips and sometimes it does not. It seems like there is a little dirt somewhere that stops the oil flow until I change the position of the bucket.

In addition to being educational, the various replies used some abbreviations that I could not figure out. What are regen, CV and PB? Also where should I permanently mount a pressure gauge on a Ford 1900?

I could be way off here but it sounds to me like the CV (control valve) is either leaking internally or you are sucking air into the system somewhere. Most likely around the cylinder seals. Are there any visible signs of leaking at the end of any of the cylinders or around the CV body itself? It may not be much but see if anything has a damp appearance to it. Not necessarily drops but just wet looking.

 

[SPYDERLK]

OK, I went ahead and ran the tractor in the garage. (cough, cough). Here is what I timed:

1000 rpm - loader to full height = 14 seconds

2000 rpm - Loader to full height = 11 seconds

Cylinders are 1.75" at 19" stroke

So there is some increase in speed just not much IMO

I also checked the return line to the tank and there is no oil flowing with the joystick in center position. Quite messy when you move it thoe.

That would fit with an air leak in the suction side. Cold oil or a suction restriction might do it too. Is your loader ever jerky when you first raise it?
larry

 

[Gary Sweat]

That would fit with an air leak in the suction side. Cold oil or a suction restriction might do it too. Is your loader ever jerky when you first raise it?
larry

Not sure if you are talking about my problem or TRH's. This is TRH's thread and we were just chatting till he got back. I'll drop my problem and just keep working on it till I figure it out. (My loader works smooth just never speeds up) much.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

OK, I went ahead and ran the tractor in the garage. (cough, cough). Here is what I timed:

1000 rpm - loader to full height = 14 seconds

2000 rpm - Loader to full height = 11 seconds

Cylinders are 1.75" at 19" stroke

So there is some increase in speed just not much IMO

I also checked the return line to the tank and there is no oil flowing with the joystick in center position. Quite messy when you move it thoe.

If your numbers are somehow accurate, they indicate a 0.85 gpm pump flow at 1000rpm, and 1.1 gpm at 2000rpm....
accordingly flow is by passing somewhere.....go and get the pump tested during pressure (flow meter at both 1000rpm and 2000rpm), so we can get that pump eliminated from trouble shooting...

 

[TRH]

There don't seem to be any leaks on the loader. It's surprising that there is absolutely no leaking fluid on any of the cylinders. All of the connections are old, but dry.

The movement is never jerky. It's very smooth when it moves, regardless of how long the engine has been running.

 

[Gary Sweat]

There don't seem to be any leaks on the loader. It's surprising that there is absolutely no leaking fluid on any of the cylinders. All of the connections are old, but dry.

The movement is never jerky. It's very smooth when it moves, regardless of how long the engine has been running.

Next time you get a chance, raise the loader about half way up, do whatever you need to with the bucket to cause the problem. Then, with the loader still up, grab hold of the bucket and see if you can move it up or down any at all. It shouldn't move but if it is getting air into the cylinders, you will be able to move it to some degree. The more air it has, the more you will be able to move it.

Do this from the side of the bucket just in case it should decide to drop.

 

[SPYDERLK]

If your numbers are somehow accurate, they indicate a 0.85 gpm pump flow at 1000rpm, and 1.1 gpm at 2000rpm....
accordingly flow is by passing somewhere.....go and get the pump tested during pressure (flow meter at both 1000rpm and 2000rpm), so we can get that pump eliminated from trouble shooting...

Perhaps you forgot to multiply by 2 ?
larry

 

[AKKAMAAN]

Perhaps you forgot to multiply by 2 ?
larry

Input and output numbers in yellow...

at
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgccLk48zZpwdHE2bjBLekE5cTZWMV9GalcyS0RvZFE&hl=en

Please check so my math is ok!!:thumbsup:

 

[Gary Sweat]

Input and output numbers in yellow...

at
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgccLk48zZpwdHE2bjBLekE5cTZWMV9GalcyS0RvZFE&hl=en

Please check so my math is ok!!:thumbsup:

So that would be x2 for two cylinders?

 

[tthopskin@yahoo.ca]

Sounds similar to the problem I have with my bucket dumping. If I let it dump too fast, it will take a couple of seconds to continue moving once the load has emptied from the bucket. Determined that the pump is not keeping up with the cylinders. I think this is caused by the loader valve being to big and lets the oil move through the system faster than the pump can supply oil back to the opposite side of the cylinders.

I will either have to put flow control valves in the lines or go to a smaller loader valve gpm to correct it. This may not be your problem but it sounds similar.

Currently I have a 10gpm valve on a 4gpm pump and 3/8" lines.

you have a air lock in your cylinders hard to get out you have to bleed them

 

[SPYDERLK]

So that would be x2 for two cylinders?

Yup ... double the pump output numbers calculated.