Stick or MIG on thick plate???

[JCC]

I would have either gone for a 250 amp class mig or a much (MUCH!) cheaper AC/DC stick welder. The learning curve for stick welding isn't very steep if you have already taught yourself what a good looking mig weld looks like.

You are right, I am just being stubborn about learning stick welding. And also about the 250 amp class MIG. Unfortunately they start at around $1500 which is more that I want/can spend. I figured I will tough it out with the 210A welder since other that this hoe project I will rarely need to weld up to 1/2".

 

[Army grunt]

I use a mig up to 1/4" An my buss box after that. I use both hands to steady an help guide them both.I am 65 age don't have anything to do with it. The proper setting is whats important with both.
Army Grunt

 

[kjung17]

The root gap not wider than filler metal only works for stick rod. You wont get full penetration with a mig with .030 or .045 gap. you need a minimum of 1/8" to get the penetration you need. We use 3/16 gap for tacking on larger pipe which sucks down to about 5/32 after it is all tacked up. Run it downhill and keep the wire feed pointed into the puddle. Takes some practice to keep the wire from porcupining inside but once you get the hang of it, it makes a nice weld. I know most of you think if it burns thru it is bad.

You sound like a welded/ boilermaker. Do you not have to repair burn through on the I.d.?

 

[Transit]

0.030 And 0.045 wire may be the wrong choices. What is wrong with 0.035 wires? At the higher amp settings and the proper unit you will get spray transfer, very hot puddle for fillets. For the root gap, I use the same mig wire to set the gap, very little burn through. Take the grinder, on edge and cut a U grove into the backside of the root to clean up and re-weld.

 

[Ford tractor]

You are right, I am just being stubborn about learning stick welding. And also about the 250 amp class MIG. Unfortunately they start at around $1500 which is more that I want/can spend. I figured I will tough it out with the 210A welder since other that this hoe project I will rarely need to weld up to 1/2".

:laughing: Sounds like me. (the stubborn part) You may want to sign up for a vo-tech evening class on welding. I took one and it was loads of very cheap fun. Plus you could bring in any projects you wanted and weld them up with the school's equipment, wire and rods WITH an expert looking over your shoulder. Made me a better welder (but still not a WELDER).

 

[bigdad]

Check this out from Miller. It's great.

Miller - Stick Welding Calculator

 

[Chilly807]

Check this out from Miller. It's great.

Miller - Stick Welding Calculator

Thanks for the link, I'll save that one !!

 

[Shield Arc]

Well I did some more research and decided to buy a Hobart Handler 210 MIG welder. Its rated up to 210A and 3/8" welds with one pass. That is a little short of 250A which is ideal for 1/2". If I bevel the plates, use a root gap and maybe pre-heat with multiple passes I think it should be fine.

JCC if you want to throw a little more power / penetration to your new Hobart Mig machine pick up a roll of .045 dual shield. A lot of dual shield you can run 75 % argon / 25 % Co2 gas or if you want even more penetration go with 100 % Co2.
I like ESAB's 710X. Here is a picture of some 710X .045 wire run vertical up with my little 200-amp Mig machine.

 

[evo803]

I got a Lincoln pro-mig 180 given to me by a friend for my tractor project that I am doing.This is my first welding project but I find 3/8" to be the limit for this welder to do work in a timely manner. Proper joint prep then 1 root and 2 cap passes is all it takes for me to get excellent penetration in 3/8" . If I had some 1/2" to weld on occasion I certainly would do it but, not a backhoe project.

 

[KWentling]

Man, I read some of these replies and I have to wonder how big of a welder some think they would need to weld 2" plate. (And how big of rod they would stick weld it with) At work, we have welders up to 1000 amps. That machine is used almost solely for air arcing now, used to sub arc with it. Most everything is now welded with dual shield 1/16, or .045. Machines are mostly 600 or 450 amp. We weld 16 gage to 2" plate all the time, and I personally have 4". Its just a matter of proper prep, preheat, and multiple passes. Maybe run off tabs. I have a Lincoln SP135 plus that I wouldn't hesitate to weld 1/2 plate with if I didn't have a 255 now. I think his 180 will work fine. The biggest mistakes I see people make is running their machines too cold, lack of joint/material prep, and no preheat. Pretty easy to make a nice looking weld that is just setting on top of scale. I doubt he is going to be doing much (maybe any) full penetration 1/2 plate in a backhoe. It will mostly be lap joints, and maybe 1/2 fillets. Nothing wrong with 3 passes if thats what it takes.

Kim

 

[evo803]

Man, I read some of these replies and I have to wonder how big of a welder some think they would need to weld 2" plate. (And how big of rod they would stick weld it with) At work, we have welders up to 1000 amps. That machine is used almost solely for air arcing now, used to sub arc with it. Most everything is now welded with dual shield 1/16, or .045. Machines are mostly 600 or 450 amp. We weld 16 gage to 2" plate all the time, and I personally have 4".
Kim

I knew this thread was going to turn into a size thing:laughing:

I was just saying that with the small duty cycle and amount of prep and passes needed it would be more efficient to stick weld 1/2" plate for a backhoe project.

 

[KWentling]

I knew this thread was going to turn into a size thing:laughing:

I was just saying that with the small duty cycle and amount of prep and passes needed it would be more efficient to stick weld 1/2" plate for a backhoe project.

It just seems to me that there is a lot of people that think if you can't weld it in one pass you don't have a big enough machine. The duty cycle might be an issue, but I doubt it. I have run maybe 8-10 rolls of NR211 through my SP and I have only tripped the duty cycle once. Most times your welds aren't that long and you are chipping, cleaning, getting repositioned or something that gives the welder enough time to stay cool enough. I think he made a good choice. I would recommend he get a roll of .045 dual shield wire and get after it. I guarantee he'll get more done with that 210 than he would running 1/8 stick.

Kim

 

[Chilly807]

It just seems to me that there is a lot of people that think if you can't weld it in one pass you don't have a big enough machine. The duty cycle might be an issue, but I doubt it. I have run maybe 8-10 rolls of NR211 through my SP and I have only tripped the duty cycle once. Most times your welds aren't that long and you are chipping, cleaning, getting repositioned or something that gives the welder enough time to stay cool enough. I think he made a good choice. I would recommend he get a roll of .045 dual shield wire and get after it. I guarantee he'll get more done with that 210 than he would running 1/8 stick.

Kim

True enough about the duty cycle. I've never tripped mine yet, and there have been quite a few projects. Usually I'm doing enough head scratching that the welder is fine.

I do weld faster with the MIG, probably because I'm more used to it than the stick.

Sean

 

[jenkinsph]

My past experiences have been that a good WELDER can produce great welds with proper penetration using only a cheap buzz box. If they have better equipment they can do this alot faster.

I have decent equipment, Miller Trailblazer 225 NT (or 250NT?) suitcase mig and mixed gas. I use this with stick and mig and fight my way through the projects as best I can. I run from .023 thru .045 wire depending on the job for mig work and 3/32 thru 5/32 for stick work. I use a Victor Journeyman cutting torch, Makita 14" chop saw and a PC portaband for cutting tools. Maybe next year or so I will add some new stationary welding equipment.

My point is there is nothing like time behind the hood, burning wire or rods to make better welds. I consider my welding ability to be decent but not as good as I would like. A real pro welder could use this same equipment and produce top notch work. Lucky for me nothing ever seems to fail with my welds but sometimes they aren't pretty.

 

[David Devuono]

So now that we have the welders all sorted out I have to ask "what part of this backhoe are you using 1/2 in material on?" Is it because your getting it for free? Your looking at a base tractor that weights about 1,400 lbs. I would forget about buying a big welder for the one or two pieces that might be 1/2 inch. If its more then a couple of small pieces then your looking at a BH that is too heavy for your tractor. Go with the 180 amp 220V Mig. You can use it in the garage and even flux wire does not smoke like a stick welder. I believe the Kubota BH is around 600 lbs for your tractor and it has nothing like 1/2 inch material. Having a BH is one of the most fun toys to use. Good Luck on the build.

 

[JCC]

So now that we have the welders all sorted out I have to ask "what part of this backhoe are you using 1/2 in material on?" Is it because your getting it for free? Your looking at a base tractor that weights about 1,400 lbs. I would forget about buying a big welder for the one or two pieces that might be 1/2 inch. If its more then a couple of small pieces then your looking at a BH that is too heavy for your tractor. Go with the 180 amp 220V Mig. You can use it in the garage and even flux wire does not smoke like a stick welder. I believe the Kubota BH is around 600 lbs for your tractor and it has nothing like 1/2 inch material. Having a BH is one of the most fun toys to use. Good Luck on the build.

The backhoe I am building is loosely based on a CADDigger 708, I say loosely because I am using the basic design from photos, internet forum posts and YouTube videos. The detailed design is my own. I think the 708 is a 3pt backhoe and weighs about 600lbs. My backhoe will be a frame mount, I will be using 1/2" plate for some of the boom pivot, dipper/bucket linkage and some of the subframe. I think it will end up weighing in at about 800lbs maybe a little more from the subframe. There are maybe 8-10 1/2" plates to be welded. That is why I decided to go with the Hobart Handler 210. Since it cost only $30 more the the Lincoln 180 I decided to go for it. It not only has 30A more current it also has better duty cycle specs than the 180.

I received the Handler 210 today. Once I get it set up and get the wire I will let everyone know how well it works on 1/2" plate. I will be using double shield flux core wire 0.045 as suggested by a couple of posters. Probably will not happen until the new year.

 

[JCC]

I went to my LWS to get the dual shield wire today, I wanted the ESAB .045 E71T-1M/2M Dual Shield II 70 Ultra. The guy told me it is only available in 9in or 12in spools. The Hobart Handler 210 I just bought can only handle spools up to 8in.

Does anyone know were to get this wire in 8in or smaller spools?

 

[JCC]

Or the equivalent dual shield wire from another manufacturer/supplier?

 

[lostcause]

i may have missed it in the sea of posts, but did you also order a new liner, feed roll, and tips to use with 0.045 wire? those welders generally only come with a 0.030/0.035 liner and feed rolls.

there are always a lot of debates on what wires are good and what ones are junk, but i think it probably has a lot to do with each operator and each welder and each environment. i've never used 0.045, but i think you can fairly easily get the lincoln nr-212 0.045 wire on a 10lb spool. i've used the nr-211 0.035 and it seems to work fine for me,

 

[JCC]

i may have missed it in the sea of posts, but did you also order a new liner, feed roll, and tips to use with 0.045 wire? those welders generally only come with a 0.030/0.035 liner and feed rolls.

there are always a lot of debates on what wires are good and what ones are junk, but i think it probably has a lot to do with each operator and each welder and each environment. i've never used 0.045, but i think you can fairly easily get the lincoln nr-212 0.045 wire on a 10lb spool. i've used the nr-211 0.035 and it seems to work fine for me,

Yea, I was going to order the roller and liner but now since the wire is going to be a pain to get I think I will just get some Lincoln .035 NR211 and be done with it. It is easy to get and I'm sure it will work fine.