Angle of attack for bucket

[not2old]

When I have a stubborn pile i go to the top of the pile with my bucket as far in the "dump" position as possible. I then put the bucket down (with force) at the top edge of the pile and drag backward. This creates a pile of loose dirt that is easily scooped up.

A couple of hits with this procedure and you will soon start to use it all the time on anything stubborn. I find I can completely fill the bucket easier using this method.

My 2 cents.

I'm still a beginner, but this is the method I've been using for the best results. I've also used the curl lever back and forth, while putting down pressure on the bucket. I then back up in order to take a full scoop,filling the bucket to the point where I have to spill some so that it won't get scattered along the ground where I'm travelling across the yard.

 

[AHNC]

I had exactly the same situation with my 2660. I worked the rt edge of the pile. Once I opened that end to the base level I wanted I just continued to shear the pile in bites that the tractor could handle easily. I don't work my equipment to hard. It'll tell you how much it can handle. By setting my base level at first and working across I was able to get gravity to work for me. Really fine piece of equipment. good luck!:thumbsup:

 

[Chilly807]

I usually dig into the top of the pile with the bucket curled down about 45 degrees from horizontal, then drag back what I can, then go ahead to scoop and curl up.

You can bend the curl cylinders if you have too much down angle and backdrag, it's happened before. I'm surprised someone hasn't mentioned this yet. The leverage the bucket has when fully dumped is substantial. If you're at a 45* angle, the bucket can ride up over really stubborn material without damaging anything.

Pick and shovel be damne*... I think I know where the shovel is, I haven't seen the pick in over a year. Once Kubota starts making the monthly payments, I'll start using the shovel again..

Seriously, loading takes practice. Once your right hand develops it's connection with your brain a little better, it gets easier. Even with loose material, drive in slowly with the bucket level, then gradually lift the loader and curl up the bucket as you start to lose traction.

With a compacted pile, you can use the solid material as a "wall" to work against. Loosen and back drag until you have enough material to fill the bucket, then drive, lift, and curl.

 

[k0ua]

Pick and shovel be damne*... I think I know where the shovel is, I haven't seen the pick in over a year. Once Kubota starts making the monthly payments, I'll start using the shovel again..

I was thinking the same thing,,If I could not load the dirt with the bucket, or scrape it loose to scoop it up, I would get the dynamite!:laughing:

Seriously tho, just go back and try some of the suggestions until you find what works for you, There were a lot of good ones given here.
James K0UA

 

[Haywire]

I've got an idea for making a 3ph counterweight. How heavy should it be?

Ian

 

[RoyJackson]

I've got an idea for making a 3ph counterweight. How heavy should it be?

Ian

Read your tractor and loader manuals for required ballast, but I'd suggest no less then 700-800 lbs.

 

[Haywire]

Read your tractor and loader manuals for required ballast, but I'd suggest no less then 700-800 lbs.

The tractor manual says "The amount of weight should be matched to the job".

I have a 25 gallon pickle barrel I thought I'd fill with quickcrete with an interior frame that would come out the side to attach to the tractor. I wouldn't think it would weigh quite that much.

Ian

Edit... the spec for the 3ph says it will lift "at least 670 lbs for the toughest jobs"

 

[RoyJackson]

The tractor manual says "The amount of weight should be matched to the job".

Boy, that's not very helpful, is it? The Deere manuals are much more specific.

I reckon I'd go 700 lbs and see how that works.
When I had my 790 (419 loader with about 825 lbs capacity at full height), I had about 600 lbs of sand in a Deere ballast box. I don't know what the box weighed empty, but I'd estimate 80 lbs or so.
Anyway, the 790 weighed about 2200 lbs and the loader went about (estimated) 700 lbs which I think puts it's pretty close in size to your Kubota (I don't follow Kubota models anymore, so I could be way way off). The ballast box I had did pretty good (never lifted the rear and did a fine job keeping traction when moving snow).
So, try about 700 lbs. I suggest sand initially, so you can easily add or remove weight. Plus, not only is sand cheap, you can toss a shovel full or so under your tires if you need more traction in slick conditions.

 

[whistlepig]

I've got an idea for making a 3ph counterweight. How heavy should it be?

Ian

I have a B8160 Kubota ballast box on my B7800. There is a sticker on this factory ballast box that says "Add 300 pounds for BX tractors and 500 pounds for B tractors". This ballast box weighs 106 pounds empty.

 

[Haywire]

Cool, thanks. My pickle barrel should achieve something close to that.

Ian

 

[LD1]

Yes the dumping of the bucket and "back dragging" the pile is not good practice. We have probabally all done it, but it causes extreme pressure to build in the curl cylinders since the relief valve is not in play (it is "shut off" by the loader valve). You can bend a cylinder but more than likely you will blow the hydraulic hoses. I have blown mine twice. But I'll admit I was using my homemade "log lifting" forks. They are about 2' long and one in each corner of the bucket. Curling all the way down and dropping the forks over a log to try to roll/pull it back towards me is how it happend both times

As to the counter weight, since you have a lighter/smaller tractor, the 25gal barrel should work just fine, especially since you have loaded the tires. Your MAX lift capacity is rated @ 670lbs 24" back. This will translate into roughly a 800-900lb rating at the ball ends. You should be just fine in the 500-600lb range. 25 gallons is about 3.3 cu ft. So if you use 6 60lb bags which are .5 cu ft each, by the time you add water, you will end up around 435lbs of concrete. Add a little for the frame work and barrel and you will easily reach 500lbs, which you will notice a night and day difference in the ability of your loader. And if you already have steel to make the frame, the concrete should only run you $3 perbag at the most. For the ~$20 invested, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

 

[dex3361]

Lots of good info posted. The tooth bar made a huge difference for my loader work. Another thought may be to get a box blade with rippers, use the rippers to loosen the soil a bit and scoop it up. As others have posted a FEL is not an excavator, but it fits my hands much better than any shovel or pick I have ever used.:laughing::laughing:

 

[beckmurph]

Are you in low range? If you add weight to the 3ph, and use the differential lock this will help a great deal. On the right side of the bucket is a little "Bucket level" sign that you can read from the operator seat. Use that as an indicator to tell you if the cutting edge and bottom of bucket is parallel to the ground. It is not the best, but its better than nothing. Use caution and don't over tax your HST.
My tooth bar's cutting edge is not as sharp as the cutting edge on the bucket. The tooth bar did not aid in the cutting ability of my bucket. I could cut better with the bucket. Tooth bar is handy, but for other jobs with my BX.
The more you use your BX2660, the better you will get. :thumbsup:

 

[repete]

Yes the dumping of the bucket and "back dragging" the pile is not good practice. We have probabally all done it, but it causes extreme pressure to build in the curl cylinders since the relief valve is not in play (it is "shut off" by the loader valve). You can bend a cylinder but more than likely you will blow the hydraulic hoses. I have blown mine twice. But I'll admit I was using my homemade "log lifting" forks. They are about 2' long and one in each corner of the bucket. Curling all the way down and dropping the forks over a log to try to roll/pull it back towards me is how it happend both times

As to the counter weight, since you have a lighter/smaller tractor, the 25gal barrel should work just fine, especially since you have loaded the tires. Your MAX lift capacity is rated @ 670lbs 24" back. This will translate into roughly a 800-900lb rating at the ball ends. You should be just fine in the 500-600lb range. 25 gallons is about 3.3 cu ft. So if you use 6 60lb bags which are .5 cu ft each, by the time you add water, you will end up around 435lbs of concrete. Add a little for the frame work and barrel and you will easily reach 500lbs, which you will notice a night and day difference in the ability of your loader. And if you already have steel to make the frame, the concrete should only run you $3 perbag at the most. For the ~$20 invested, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

I have something like 5000 HARD hours on my L2550 using the bucket to tear stuff up. I have never blown a line or bent or blown a curl cylinder. I wore the first bucket out by pealing the laminated front edge apart pushing gravel and bent the bucket so bad it sagged about an inch and a half or so in the center. Kind of looks funny with a new orange bucket .

I have never seen a Kubota as "beat" looking as mine. It looks horrible but mechanically it performs well. Grease every 16 hours or so and change engine oil and filter every 100 hours from the time it was new. These little tractors are GREAT if you take care of them.

 

[Haywire]

Are you in low range?

Well, there's an "Aha!" moment. No, I was not in low range.

thanks,
Ian

 

[Tachdriver]

I want a toothbar for my new bx-25 - I measured the inside width of the bucket down low and it's @ 46.5" side. I believe this Iowa brand will fit mine. Does anyone know for sure before I order one ?

46.5" Tooth Bar,Tooth Bars Skidsteers, Loaders FREESHPG - eBay (item 110588875067 end time Dec-19-10 18:41:59 PST)



later

 

[cdaigle430]

Yes the dumping of the bucket and "back dragging" the pile is not good practice. We have probabally all done it, but it causes extreme pressure to build in the curl cylinders since the relief valve is not in play (it is "shut off" by the loader valve). You can bend a cylinder but more than likely you will blow the hydraulic hoses. I have blown mine twice.

Can you explain "dumping of the bucket and back dragging? Is this similia to me using the weight of bucket and driving the tractor in reverse to level off section of the ground? If so I do this alot......

 

[Chilly807]

I've got an idea for making a 3ph counterweight. How heavy should it be?

Ian

To get the best match between lifting capacity and counterweight, you need to do a little math.

Use the front axle as the pivot point, then measure the distance from where your counterweight will be to the front axle.

Again, measure the distance from the pivot pins in the loader bucket to the front axle with the bucket on the ground. I say to use the pivot pins to be on the safe side. The loader lift ability will rarely be used from the pins, but it's possible.

You have the 243 loader, I assume? If so, it has a lift ability of 745 lbs at the pins.

I don't have tractor dimensions in front of me, but we can do a sample calculation to give some rough numbers. If the 2660 is 92 inches long, from the front axle to the 3 ph ball ends is about 7 feet. From the loader pins to the front axle is probably about 3 feet.

So, the loader has less leverage on the front axle than the ballast will since the ballast has a longer "lever" to work with. Dividing 3 into 7 gives you a ratio of 0.43, multiply 745 by 0.43 gives you 320 lbs.

If you add 320 lbs to the back of the tractor at the 3 ph ball ends, with the loader at max capacity you'll have "neutral" balance, with the loads at both ends balanced evenly, assuming the length measurements are pretty close to being accurate.

As you raise the load the numbers change, the distance from the loader pins to the front axle changes for sure, as does the geometry of the loader/cylinder angles.

However, more weight on the tires will give you better traction, where you add that weight is the question. Wheel weights are nice because it's always there, there's no weight added to the axle load when you use wheel weights but space limits how much you can add there.

Sean

 

[Chilly807]

Can you explain "dumping of the bucket and back dragging? Is this similia to me using the weight of bucket and driving the tractor in reverse to level off section of the ground? If so I do this alot......

With the bucket sitting level there's no problem, it's when you have the bottom surface close to vertical in the dump position that you need to be careful. The bucket acts as a lever around the pivot pins, trying to compress the curl cylinders because of the force exerted on the bucket lower lip by driving in reverse with the lip dragging. I've heard of bent cylinders or blown hoses (see above) from doing this.

I try not to back-drag with the bucket angle more than 45 degrees from flat, if it DOES hook something hard it will ride up over and not over-stress the cylinders.

If I need to have the bucket vertical, I'm pretty careful (slow and paying attention).

Sean

 

[picker77]

Tachdriver, IFE makes very good heavy duty tooth bars, that's where I bought mine (via their Ebay outlet). It was delivered in three days with free shipping. However, if your bucket measures EXACTLY 46.5" inside, I'd really recommend their 46.0" version instead: 46" Tooth Bar,Tooth Bars 4 Skidsteers, Loaders FREESHPG - eBay (item 110607014883 end time Dec-03-10 10:31:01 PST)

The reason is a matter of avoiding possible installation hassle. If the 46.5" bar turns out to be 46.7" or something, you'll have some banging, bending, and/or grinding to do, and that's not always fun. Most of these from any manufacturer won't be EXACTLY the advertised length on arrival. Ordering one 1/4" to 1/2" shorter than the actual bucket width leaves a bit of fudging allowance for the thickness of weld beads on the inside corners of the bucket, and also a little room for reasonable fabrication tolerances. One or two flat washers on each end will make up any gap in the fit, and will allow easy bolt on and removal. I think I needed a couple of 1/8" thick flat washers on each end of my 61" bar (which turned out to be about 60.5") between the brackets and the bucket sides. Use a bimetal hole saw and a VERY slow speed, squirt on generous amounts of kerosene, diesel fuel, or WD-40 for a drilling lube. Easy job if you take your time. IFE ships these with grade 5 3/4" bolts and washers, (which I replaced with 3/4" grade 8's) and I really cranked them down tight. I've used the bar hard and nothing has budged at all. Just make sure the fit of the bar is as tight to the rear (backed up against the cutting edge) as possible before you drill the holes.

The bolt brackets on each end have an elongated bolt slot. Some advocate mounting so that the bolts are located in the forward end of the slot, the theory being if you want to use just the cutting edge without the teeth, you can loosen the bolts, slide the whole thing forward to the other end of the slots, and pivot the bar up. I personally don't agree, because it leaves open the possibility of the bar slipping forward a little during use, and ANY looseness or gap between the bar and the cutting edge will cause problems. Plus it seems to me the flipped-up bar would still be in the way anyway. So I mounted mine with the bolts as far to the back of the slots as possible so it can never move forward at all. If I ever need to work without the tooth bar in place I'll simply unbolt it and pull it off, no big deal. But that occasion has never come up so far, and probably won't. Your choice.

Last item is bolt length. Choose a length that allows the nut to be flush with the end of the bolt after tightening. That way the threads won't be boogered up and unusable if you do ever need to take the bar off. That was another reason I wanted Grade 8 hardware--those nuts and bolts will take a lot of abuse over the years.