Dirt Moving First timer embarking on multiple tasks - rented tractor.

[PatasColo]

Howdy all,
I've been reading this website for a few months, and lots of great info. Thanks for such a great resource.

I have about 1.2 acres of farm-y land, coupled with 14 acres of mountain-y land that we just bought this spring. I'm thinking I'll need a tractor, but am slow to make such a big purchase... So, this weekend will be the first time we have a tractor on the property to do some long-delayed chores. Renting a JD 3320 (I believe; if not, it's close to that model) with FEL and BB. I'd like to 1) move rocks (20-150 lbs each) 2) neaten up the 300 ft driveway (it is rutted from rainstorms last spring), 3) cut a swale for better drainage across our field, and 4) move dirt from a long berm uphill to backfill an area near the house. (I've attached a pic of the land to this post.)

The last task is most critical (backfill); Then the driveway, then the others. I've read plenty of safety and "how to" info on here, but anything else you think is key (for a person getting on and operating a tractor for first time), feel free to chime in. I have the tractor for one full day.

Here's a couple specific questions:
1) The land slopes from the road where the berm is up to the house. It's probably 150 feet distance and 10 to 15 foot rise. How do you best get a feel for turning around on slope and knowing you're not going to tip over? I don't even want to come close! :ashamed:
2) The destination area needing backfill is tight; I don't think the tractor will fit/maneuver with the BB on. The BB is my rear counterweight. My thought is to move all the dirt as close as possible to backfill area (it's going to take a bunch of 150ft trips) with the BB on... Then only remove the BB for the final last bit of pushing all the backfill into place in the tight quarters. Your thoughts?
3) The driveway is dirt and rock... lots of varied broken rock (sandstone) from the slope I live on. It is solid rock on one side and there is a short wall on the other which serves as a retaining wall to hold the driveway in (mortar and big rock wall... very solid). I'm thinking to make a pass with the BB and see if I can even out the ruts. I'll likely grab some rock mixed with dirt from other parts of property to fill in as well. I know this is not permanent, but it'll serve our needs for now. One option is to buy some half-to-inch sharp gravel/roadbase to lay in, but I don't want to create too many jobs, and I'm under no illusion that this'll be the only time I'll grade the driveway.

OK, thanks for your time and input, and if you need more detail, just ask. This'll be my first time on a tractor, so I figure it's a "learning day", but I don't want to learn any "bad" lessons.
Patas

P.S. I can tell you that neither rented tractor nor one I buy is going to get taken up the mountain part of the land... It's a Rocky Mountain foothill, and goes 1200 feet horizontal to the butte crest, with a 300 foot rise. However, way in the future we may take a tractor around to the valley behind via a fireroad (I have a fantasy of building a little stone & wood cabin back there).

 

[TripleR]

Have you looked at the videos on Everything Attachments?

As for turning around on slopes, if you are not yet familiar with your machine or an experienced operator the best advice I can give is don't; either drive or back down to turn around or find a flat spot. Always keep your FEL as low as possible as well as BB if you do decide to try this; experience will be your best teacher and this takes time at least for me.

 

[Porkie]

Very beautiful place ya got there!

Just be careful and start out slowly and on the level areas until you "master" the tractor and it's operation.

As far as slopes go, you have a built in "PUCKER" meter that will warn you when something doesn't feel right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cars, trucks, tractors, none of them like being sideways or perpindicular to travel on a hill or slope. Sideways, a vehicle can turn over in a heart beat. If there's room to turn around at the top that is flat and the hill isn't too steep, you'll be okay. Most tractors only have brakes on the back, so they can slide out on certain types of terrain.

Welcome to the forum!

Sam

 

[PatasColo]

Thanks for the feedback so far fellas. I'll attach here another photo at eye level... it may give a better "person's eye view" of the slope I'm talking about. Not drastic, but not to be ignored. You can see the the garden (lower left corner of picture) has a little 14-18 inch wall on the end closer to us, and is level with the ground farther up, where there is another little wall buttressing up the yard. The tractor will come across the field and garden from the left, and then have to turn up the stone path in the pic, and follow that up to the house. I think it's a good idea to back down from the house, as there is not really room up there to turn around anyway, and then proceed left across the garden and into the field towards the berm.

I'm going to walk it a bunch of times just to really check my route.... slope, rocks and dips, etc. Also, the first time on the tractor I'll just drive it up and back empty, then perhaps do a partially filled bucket a few times to keep getting the feel of things. My focus is to be safe and like I said, enjoy learning how to work a tractor... if there is a hitch in getting the work done, so be it.

Also, I'm hoping to get a sense if a CUT or SCUT is a better choice for my purchase. Folks here been sayin' the SCUTs tend to have lower center of gravity, which is good. But correspondingly lower clearance, and our property is full of beautiful rock. A lot of it coming up in the little field, so clearance is a good thing; tippiness is not. The guy we paid last spring to mow the field broke the blade yoke of his Husqvarna riding mower, and then did some damage to his JD riding mower, all due to the rocks and irregularities in the field (we've been mowing with a walk-behind string trimmer since then, one section at a time).

 

[TripleR]

The gradual approach is a very good one, but depending on the slope may or may not be enough. Go to the Safety Forum and look at some of the posts there; often too little time for the "internal pucker meter" to save you.

I can empathize with the decision between a SCUT/CUT. I chose a SCUT for our residence due to the stability issues. We have other tractors available, but even if we didn't, I would still have picked a SCUT. It is just going to be a matter of which compromises are the least troublesome.

Good luck and enjoy the seat time.:thumbsup:

 

[LostInTheWoods]

Thanks for the feedback so far fellas. I'll attach here another photo at eye level... it may give a better "person's eye view" of the slope I'm talking about. Not drastic, but not to be ignored.

Welcome to TBN, PatasColo. Looking at your picture, my first impression is that your tractor will have little difficulty on this hill. It can be difficult to get adequate perspective from pictures, however, so definitely consider your moves carefully while you familiarize yourself with the tractor.

Also, I'm hoping to get a sense if a CUT or SCUT is a better choice for my purchase. Folks here been sayin' the SCUTs tend to have lower center of gravity, which is good. But correspondingly lower clearance, and our property is full of beautiful rock. A lot of it coming up in the little field, so clearance is a good thing; tippiness is not. The guy we paid last spring to mow the field broke the blade yoke of his Husqvarna riding mower, and then did some damage to his JD riding mower, all due to the rocks and irregularities in the field (we've been mowing with a walk-behind string trimmer since then, one section at a time).

Well, there are rocks, and then there are rocks. My SCUT (Kubota BX2660) has just over eight-and-a-half inches of ground clearance. This gives me plenty of clearance for most of the rocks in my area, as well as fallen limbs and many rutted areas. Comparing ground clearance between SCUTs and riding mowers...well, they're not even in the same class. The relatively low center of gravity, however, also helps keep my pucker factor to a minimum.

Can you give us some idea of what type/sizes of rocks you're dealing with?

 

[k0ua]

Like others have said, go slow, remember Loader Low as possible (and rolled back), but know this: in one day I am not sure you can learn how to be effective with the loader. Don't be disapointed, it takes time to learn to get a good bucket of dirt, or how to dig with the tractor, and I don't think one day is enough. I am not even sure 1 year is enough. I may be a slow learner, but I have been behind a loader control for about 18 years, and I am a lot better now than I was 17 years ago. But all that said you will get some work done, and maybe you can learn faster than I did Also be extremely carefull without the weight on the back of the tractor, they are almost worthless without the weight on the back, especially if the tires are not loaded with fluid for weight,. just dont raise that bucket very high, and never turn if it is. without lotsa rear weight.. wish I was there to help you. at least to get you started safely. Be safe, have fun, get some work done, in that order. Oh, almost forgot, um unless you are pretty lucky, I think you are going to learn some new swear words, unhooking and re-attaching that box blade, on the 3 point, unless you have some kind of quick hitch on the 3 point, getting things lined up by yourself can be a pain at times. Remember if you kick too hard, you can damage your foot.!
James K0UA

 

[GT2]

Another consideration is the cut will prolly hold more dirt. If you need to move a lot, the increased capacity will be nice.

As others have said, pics can be deceiving but your area dosent look that bad.

Also it vary's tractor to tractor, but a "smaller" cut is prolly wider than a scut so c of g may not be a big deal.

 

[PatasColo]

Thanks for the reminder of the Everything Attachments site; I'd looked at a couple things, and looked at some more. Then went to look for FEL techniques, safety, dangers, and really found enough to make you never want to sit in a tractor seat! Obviously, that's not the right conclusion, but it's just to say I got a healthy dose of learning, and a healthy dose of caution which is proper. Have any of you ever had a BB hang up on a rock (read "underground boulder")... I saw that the consequences of trying to pull an immovable object tend to be a flipover, one way or another, if the tractor has enough torque.

And k0ua, I know you're right: that I'll be workin' to learn as much as possible, but one day is just one day, so I'll make sure the focus is safety, fun, then work.

For LostInTheWoods, the rocks on my property are many and varied. I live right at the bottom of a sandstone hogback. Basically a prehistoric seabed which has been uplifted, resulting in a big slope and cliffs off the top end. The farm-y part of the land has a more gentle slope, as you were seeing in the picture, but it's not zero. Anyway, the rocks vary from round to exactly squared, and from baseball and smaller to slabs over 5 feet in any given dimension. In the field, there's a lot of cantaloupe sized which peek out and come up to the surface, and as big as watermelon if you dig in the right area. Also, the land is all bumpy and irregular (not cultivated nor flat).

A lot of the dirt I'm moving from the berm is laced with the baseball to cantaloupe size stuff. I'm going to have to scratch at it with the loader a lot, I know, and it's a bummer that there is no toothbar on the loader edge (rental shop doesn't have). I'll just do what I can.

 

[PatasColo]

P.S. Now that I've put all this out there, I s'pose someone will be expecting before-and-after pictures. :confused2:

 

[RadarTech]

P.S. Now that I've put all this out there, I s'pose someone will be expecting before-and-after pictures. :confused2:

Um... That is an underwritten rule.... I think I need to get Muhammed to add that to the official rules somewhere...

 

[TripleR]

Thanks for the reminder of the Everything Attachments site; I'd looked at a couple things, and looked at some more. Then went to look for FEL techniques, safety, dangers, and really found enough to make you never want to sit in a tractor seat! Obviously, that's not the right conclusion, but it's just to say I got a healthy dose of learning, and a healthy dose of caution which is proper. Have any of you ever had a BB hang up on a rock (read "underground boulder")... I saw that the consequences of trying to pull an immovable object tend to be a flipover, one way or another, if the tractor has enough torque.

A lot of the dirt I'm moving from the berm is laced with the baseball to cantaloupe size stuff. I'm going to have to scratch at it with the loader a lot, I know, and it's a bummer that there is no toothbar on the loader edge (rental shop doesn't have). I'll just do what I can.

With a tractor the size of the 3320, especially with 4WD, HST and R4 tires, I wouldn't be overly concerned about flipping over backwards if you hook your bb on something. My L5030 just spins the tires. Even our Case CX80 never lifted the front with Ag tires doing a full pull. Some are more inclined than others.

As for the rocks, I would probably tilt the bb forward and lower the scarifiers to dig the rocks out and go slow. This also works pretty good to loosen the soil to make it easier to dig with the FEL.

 

[troutsqueezer]

I'm going to predict that one day is not going to be enough time for you, Good Buddy.

Might as well take the plunge now, and buy a tractor.

 

[k0ua]

P.S. Now that I've put all this out there, I s'pose someone will be expecting before-and-after pictures.

Darn right!, thats a given. I am curious to see how well you do, It's been so long since I got my first tractor, I cannot remember everything about the first days, but the wife says I got stuck within the first 3 days, I remember getting stuck but I though it was much later. Anyway, I do remember, not doing very well with the loader at first, just did not have the technique down, and sometimes moved a "bucket full" of dirt from one place to another, and being very disapointed how little I actually moved. I bet others were like that too at first, but they might not admit it:laughing: You will do much better when you get your own tractor, and can spend some real seat time learning the ropes. And if you have any success at all with the rented tractor, you will be hooked:thumbsup: Good luck,
James K0UA

 

[jenkinsph]

Over the last two months I have worked in the Durango area digging trenches and moving rocks, lots of rocks. I used my rock bucket to sort out the largest rocks and had to order in some clean fill to bed the pipes with. I will say that trying to dig large rocks with the 3320 and fel with a materials bucket will be a difficult task at best. You need the right bucket and or grapple setup to make this easier to do.

I recommend that you take the day and focus on smoothing the driveway and moving some fill to get a feel for the tractor first.

FWIW, I had a friend years ago who carried a cheap lawn chair around with him he would set it on cross slope to see how it felt to him before putting his equipment on it. He got the seat of the pants experience without the risk was his thoughts.

 

[crazyal]

You should ask the rental place if they loaded the tires. Loaded tires is adding a fluid inside them to add weight. Chances are they did. Even if you don't finish the projects the time will give you a feeling for what it's like to operate one. It will also give you an idea on what size you may want. Having loaded tires will change the feel of a tractor so it would be nice to know.

Just remember keep the ROPS (roll bar) up and wear your seat belt. Safety first.

 

[Don87]

If your measurements are accurate(15 foot rise in 150 feet), you'll need a com-a-long to flip the tractor.
But as to what you have planned.........ain't possible in 1 day, even with an experienced operator.

IMHO.

 

[PatasColo]

Well folks, it really helped to hear from you all, and to set my expectations appropriately. Safety first is always the good rule, and I was glad I did extra reading on TBN for warnings & no-no's, as well as techniques.

Long story short, I got all the berm backfill dirt moved, I got all the rocks moved (didn't have to dig them out, as mentioned by a previous poster, just move them... I'd rolled or dollied every last one down our considerable slope, so they were sitting beside the dirt drive), I made an attempt at the swale, and I did some driveway infilling and leveling. Wah! It seems incredible the amount I got done. Having my brother here for the rock-moving part helped, as we positioned the JD, slid/placed rocks in the bucket, carried them to the new backfill, and then he directed my positioning of FEL for easiest and most accurate unloading.

So for an absolute newbie, all the things you guys mentioned were useful. Here's a few more that I "learned" while in the seat:
- If your wheels spin while digging with the FEL, watch out for the ruts you just created
- The range shift lever either slipped or I bumped it getting in and out... three times. Not sure which. In any case, finding yourself in neutral when you expected mid-range is not a good thing.
- The tractor handles very differently with FEL loaded vs. unloaded... be aware of the difference.
- Sometimes the hydraulics seemed speedier/more jerky than others. Be careful if bucket lowers fast and then taking hand off the lever (stops bucket). This can lift a rear wheel (as I found out... twice :ashamed: ).

For all my work newbie-ness, I have only one battle scar: a small tree branch got pulled back by ROPS, and then branded me across the cheek as it let go. It'll make for fun stories at work on Monday.

I'll post before-and-after pics within the next 24 hours. Thanks Again! :thumbsup:

 

[PatasColo]

Here's the"Before" pics... the berm (source of our dirt with filled with rocks), the place where the dirt is going, and the mossrock we will put on top (rock garden). We only have to fill the left side and a little on the right, and want to leave the old root cellar wall exposed. That pile of mossrock you see is one of about 6 piles of that size... plenty mossrock to move.

 

[PatasColo]

Here's a few "in progress" pics.
First, used the BB with teeth to break down the berm to start... made all the difference. Then, delivering dirt to the site... half buckets had me very happy early in the day (learning to scoop with the FEL). Third, nothing beats having your brother over for some mossrock loading. And lastly, you can see that by evening, I was getting fuller scoops in the FEL bucket.