How to kill yourself without knowing

[The Haymaker]

I still can't believe we are comparing the actions of a tractor tipping due to center of gravity and moving at 3mph to a fighter jet moving at 700 and being spun forcibly by ailerons.

Me, I'll live while knowing it by using the time proven tricks of paying attention, using good sense, and enjoying the little thing called "reflexes".

 

[EE_Bota]

Maybe I already mentioned it here (this is a long thread) but someone posted on TBN about going up a hill and being careful. The tractor rolled over backwards. By the time he realized there was a problem, the clutch pedal of his tractor was staring him in the face. I appreciated his post and keep that image in mind when i am thinking if i am careful, i can get away with something.

Ken

I believe it can happen just that way, and just that fast. Lot's of people don't believe it. I try to remind coworkers that no one would leave the house in the morning thinking that something like that will happen to them, try to leave the "it will never happen to me" thoughs behind, and replace it with care and caution to make SURE it doesn't happen to them.

 

[nebraskasparks]

I still can't believe we are comparing the actions of a tractor tipping due to center of gravity and moving at 3mph to a fighter jet moving at 700 and being spun forcibly by ailerons.

Me, I'll live while knowing it by using the time proven tricks of paying attention, using good sense, and enjoying the little thing called "reflexes".

I think you missed a lot of the discussion earlier on in the thread.

I can't force you to believe...but You better check the safety forum at TBN and look at the video involving a tractor operating at 3 mph and the overturn. You might be surprised...at least I hope you are. Hopefully you also realize that I am not trying to "pull a fast one" on you...but trying to get the TBN audience to understand that fractions of a second to the human mind and very strong moment arms on tractors are in fact identical/the same for a clumsy looking tractor and a jet fighter...it's all physics and ergonomics (man/machine interface).

Everything we do with a tractor involves physics and everything we operate in regard to machinery operates by these very same principles. Center of gravity/torque/slope and angles/moment arms and centrifugal force are what you play with every time you turn a switch on a tractor ...We had pilots that bragged about their fast minds, "time proven tricks" and reflexes...and some of them aren't here today.
The common sense that you mention is killing men that have a lot of tractor time...which almost happened to yours truly.

 

[oldballs]

Can I ask a practical question? Being a newbie, while pulling 6 inch fence posts with the FEL(on level ground), the tractor would want to roll up and over. The rear balast is a RB (weight 270 lbs). Should the RB be up as high as it can go or near the ground? And,Ohh-h-h, I wasn't wearing the seat belt because I was getting on and off to adjust the chain or wiggle the post. That part, I'm going to correct. Thanks.....oldballs.

 

[SpringHollow]

You would want the rear weight as low as possible. You could try adding weight to the blade as well - cinder blocks, etc

Ken

 

[texasjohn]

oldballs, when I first got my tractor, I assumed it was ready to go to work.
It was....but not SAFELY for everything I wanted to do.
First thing I tried was to pull fence posts...yep, rear end came off ground.

You MUST get sufficient rear weight such that you CANNOT lift rear wheels off ground when FEL is lifting with all its might and relief valve is hissing. I ADDED about 800 lbs to the rear box blade... does the trick.

Many ways to do this and much discussed here on TBN... please research rear weights here on TBN and find a combination that works for you and makes it IMPOSSIBLE for you to lift the rear wheels off the ground with FEL.

 

[Redneck in training]

Can I ask a practical question? Being a newbie, while pulling 6 inch fence posts with the FEL(on level ground), the tractor would want to roll up and over. The rear balast is a RB (weight 270 lbs). Should the RB be up as high as it can go or near the ground? And,Ohh-h-h, I wasn't wearing the seat belt because I was getting on and off to adjust the chain or wiggle the post. That part, I'm going to correct. Thanks.....oldballs.

When you lift the rear wheels off the ground the tractor will turn sideways only to the stop restricting front axle motion.

 

[nebraskasparks]

oldballs, when I first got my tractor, I assumed it was ready to go to work.
It was....but not SAFELY for everything I wanted to do.
First thing I tried was to pull fence posts...yep, rear end came off ground.

You MUST get sufficient rear weight such that you CANNOT lift rear wheels off ground when FEL is lifting with all its might and relief valve is hissing. I ADDED about 800 lbs to the rear box blade... does the trick.

Many ways to do this and much discussed here on TBN... please research rear weights here on TBN and find a combination that works for you and makes it IMPOSSIBLE for you to lift the rear wheels off the ground with FEL.

Ditto TJ...the moment arm (end of your FEL to the pivot point where it's attached) is actually pretty long...which moves your center of gravity which is usually in front of your rear axle and moves it further up and even closer to your bucket or grapple which AIN'T GOOD. 6 inch posts in stubborn ground (or concrete) take a super load of weight/pressure to pull.
Whatever the weight your FEL is rated at the pin attachment point - you can use at least 1/3 of that weight or more on the 3pt for the back of the tractor.

 

[Reg]

Can I ask a practical question? Being a newbie, while pulling 6 inch fence posts with the FEL(on level ground), the tractor would want to roll up and over. The rear balast is a RB (weight 270 lbs). Should the RB be up as high as it can go or near the ground? And,Ohh-h-h, I wasn't wearing the seat belt because I was getting on and off to adjust the chain or wiggle the post. That part, I'm going to correct. Thanks.....oldballs.

You can expect the FEL to pull the tractor forwards as soon as the bucket reaches somewhere around the FEL's pivot point.

RESIST any temptation to drive the tractor backwards in 4WD while pulling posts or shrubs - front end wheelies, even at low speed, can be very unpleasant.

If you insist on using rear ballast - or feel you need to because your FEL can get your tractor's rear wheels off the ground - keep it low, but not ON the ground.

 

[Soundguy]

ditto on the blocks for box blade weight. i have filled 5g buckets with cement.. they makegreat box blde ballast.

soundguy

 

[texasjohn]

Nebraskasparks, now how did you know that my FEL spec's around 3000 lbs and my box blade with weights is somewhere over 1000 lbs....kinda close to your 1/3 ratio you mentioned. And, I LIKE it that way

 

[oldballs]

Thanks for the tips on ballast and post pulling, everybody. Now for a way to hang something on my RB without scratching up it's shiny new paint. I am thinking of making something to hold a couple of 70 lb sand bags across the top rim of the blade. I don't plan on spending anymore money e.g. to buy a BB. It seems that each task is a different use of the machine; however, the principles are the same.

 

[jonyyuma]

[You know, I have a couple 50cal ammo cans and a small stack of scrap lead wheel weights, behind the shop. I think I will put them together and make some shiftable weights to go on top of my 425#tiller to up the anty on tipping?Might need a bracket or bungee to keep them there. I wonder how much one can would weigh? JY.rQUOTE=oldballs;2152405]Thanks for the tips on ballast and post pulling, everybody. Now for a way to hang something on my RB without scratching up it's shiny new paint. I am thinking of making something to hold a couple of 70 lb sand bags across the top rim of the blade. I don't plan on spending anymore money e.g. to buy a BB. It seems that each task is a different use of the machine; however, the principles are the same.[/QUOTE]

 

[CowwFace]

...but using unsubstantiated data makes it moot...



hardly relative...in case you haven't noticed there is a big difference between a training jet and a tractor with a front end loader...

You have obviously not seen MY tractor! hehehe!!

 

[Danno1]

.


Lead weighs .408 lb/in^3

Or, if you really feel like throwing your money around, you can go w Tungsten @ .697 lb/in^3 !!


.

 

[jonyyuma]

Danno, Sorry but I only have the lead for ballast. I will try the bath room scales for a close fit. might be tough, with the 3/4 inch wide handles on the cans.---,Grin. All my Tungsten is in the light sockets. I just don't have room for the concrete on it. Jy.

 

[rd_macgregor]

I wonder if DU would be cheaper than tungsten, since it (DU) is almost 99% the density of tungsten? Plus, you'd be helping the nuclear power industry get rid of bothersome waste (and, if you got the really fresh stuff, you wouldn't need backup lights on your tractor!).

BOB

 

[jonyyuma]

Okay, the rear lights were removed, so I maybe could paint an outline on the back and it would glow? Plus I could irridiate my crops for better yields? Seriously, there is way too much Nuclear stuff being buried...Jy.

 

[The Haymaker]

I wonder if DU would be cheaper than tungsten, since it (DU) is almost 99% the density of tungsten? Plus, you'd be helping the nuclear power industry get rid of bothersome waste (and, if you got the really fresh stuff, you wouldn't need backup lights on your tractor!).

BOB

Why not, the government claims it's perfectly safe for our soldiers...

 

[nebraskasparks]

Nebraskasparks, now how did you know that my FEL spec's around 3000 lbs and my box blade with weights is somewhere over 1000 lbs....kinda close to your 1/3 ratio you mentioned. And, I LIKE it that way

Just keeping my big ears open to experts like yourself!

I did check some neighbors and their owners manuals (case and jd).....the 1/3 rule works because of the way these smaller tractors are designed...

the transmission/rear end is where over 1/2 the weight of most small tractors is concentrated in. Using center of gravity per the Penn State guide being just about 1 foot in front of the rear axle and using your owners manual you can do your own balance equation for straight and level ground. L5740 weighs a little over 4k....therefore 2k lbs located around the rear end ....FEL/grapple with a full load capacity of 3k...makes the rear end awful light and that's just lifting your FEL off the ground. Throw a few degrees of slope pointed downhill with this machine and the CG "scoots" forward real fast and also increases in height. 1k pounds added to the rear (or more) makes for a much more balanced machine in this case.

I found the website that has all the engineering information I want but....they want some nice bucks to join...plus bucks for each article. Maybe TBN will buy me an honorary subscription to the American Society of Agricultural and Biological Engineers (ASABE) so I can stir the pot some more:thumbsup::laughing: