The gully to pond project

[jayste]

looks good Jim! If you keep it up you'll have a pond that even Eddie could be proud of! :thumbsup:

 

[mike69440]

I did not know what Caliche was, so I checked out Wiki, I bet it behaves like the crumbly ledge and sandstone I run into on this glacial till New Hampshire ridge we own. Our property has all sorts of rocks, granite sandstone, quartz, Some marblized stuff even.

Can you give me some info in your bucket teeth. My PC75 excavator is due for its fouth set of teeth and I only have put 650 hours on it since I picked it up. Your teeth look like they will stand up well to rock.

From Wiki
"Caliche is a sedimentary rock, a hardened deposit of calcium carbonate. This calcium carbonate cements together other materials, including gravel, sand, clay, and silt. It is found in aridisol and mollisol soil orders. Caliche occurs worldwide, generally in arid or semiarid regions, including in central and western Australia, in the Kalahari Desert, in the High Plains of the western USA, and in the Sonoran Desert. Caliche is also known as hardpan, calcrete, kankar (in India), or duricrust. The term caliche is Spanish and is originally from the Latin calx, meaning lime.

Caliche is generally light colored but can range from white to light pink to reddish-brown, depending on the impurities present. It is generally found on or near the surface, but it can be found in deeper subsoil deposits as well. The layers can vary from a few inches to feet thick, and multiple layers can exist in a single location"


QUOTE=jinman;2127418]I got back to digging on my pond basin yesterday. I'm into a layer of caliche that is tough going. It took me all afternoon to dig out about 50 yards of material. Where normally I can loosen dirt very rapidly with the hoe and then scoop it up with the loader for removal, yesterday it was a fight scraping through this tough caliche semi-hard layer. I found that rather than digging in a conventional way, if I could undercut a layer and lift upwards, I can peel off big chunks of caliche and then it just crumbles. Fun stuff! Here are some pictures.[/QUOTE]

 

[jinman]

Can you give me some info in your bucket teeth. My PC75 excavator is due for its fouth set of teeth and I only have put 650 hours on it since I picked it up. Your teeth look like they will stand up well to rock.

Mike, here is a link to one supplier of the teeth. I also included a closeup photo so you can see the teeth are Fabco 2320NHC (forked) and 2310NHC (pointed). They should be readily available for a NH, but I'm not sure about your PC75.

Your description of caliche from Wiki is spot on. The nickname "calcrete" is a good one because some of this stuff is more like concrete than sandrock. It just really slows down the digging process and makes you use a lot of patience.

 

[dcyrilc]

Mike, here is a link to one supplier of the teeth. I also included a closeup photo so you can see the teeth are Fabco 2320NHC (forked) and 2310NHC (pointed). They should be readily available for a NH, but I'm not sure about your PC75.

Your description of caliche from Wiki is spot on. The nickname "calcrete" is a good one because some of this stuff is more like concrete than sandrock. It just really slows down the digging process and makes you use a lot of patience.

'Mornin' Jim,

Around here, at least for the full size hoes and trackhoes, we call those Tiger Teeth. The tips are hardened and they really do a great job of digging in hard material.:thumbsup:

I found a 7,200 pair phone line with them once. It was the trunk line into the local phone companies main office in the town we were working in. What a mess.:laughing:

 

[EddieWalker]

Jim,

Wondering what's the problem with digging from above? Looks like the hoe is doing a fine job of it.

Are you moving around from the hoe and pulling yourself around?

Why is your bucket in that position? It looks like it couldn't be very stable that way. I've seen it in the down positon a few times, but when I tried it, it was too squirrely for me. I like the bucket flat, and down as far as it will go to get the tires in the air.

I also put the outriggers down so the tires are in the air. One inch in the air is the same as a foot, so height isn't important, just getting the weight of the tractor on the outriggers is all that matters.

How are you digging? Are you curling and pulling? Or are you lifting in an upward motion?

Eddie

 

[jinman]

Jim,

Wondering what's the problem with digging from above? Looks like the hoe is doing a fine job of it.

Are you moving around from the hoe and pulling yourself around?

Why is your bucket in that position? It looks like it couldn't be very stable that way. I've seen it in the down positon a few times, but when I tried it, it was too squirrely for me. I like the bucket flat, and down as far as it will go to get the tires in the air.

I also put the outriggers down so the tires are in the air. One inch in the air is the same as a foot, so height isn't important, just getting the weight of the tractor on the outriggers is all that matters.

How are you digging? Are you curling and pulling? Or are you lifting in an upward motion?

Eddie

Eddie, the hoe works great from above. It does everything you'd expect and even digs into the caliche much better than from below. I suppose the biggest problem is how far down I have to go to get to the caliche. I have to remove a layer of clay, find a place to pile the spoils for later use, and then dig through a 3' layer of sugar sand. By the time I get all the clay and sand removed, I'm sitting on a 6' dropoff and reaching down to chip up the caliche with the backhoe teeth. If I were sitting just on top of the caliche layer, it wouldn't unnerve me so much.

The reason I bury the cutting edge of my loader bucket is because the back of my tractor is quite a ways below the front and wants to roll off the hill backwards. Even though I turn around, set the brakes, and put the transmission into gear before I move the tractor, when I drop down off the outriggers, it's a bit disconcerting. With the bucket firmly buried in that position, I can power forward/up and lift the bucket at the same time. If my bucket was flat on the ground, it could just slip/slide backwards. As you can see in my diagram, I need to get the outriggers all the way down to get my tractor level. I not only get the wheels into the air, but I level up my work platform with the outriggers and bucket. The diagram is exaggerated, but it's not that far off.

In the photos, you can see what I did yesterday. One of my biggest problems is figuring out the best place to put my spoils from digging with the backhoe. For soft materials like the clay and sand, I can put my tractor at 90 degrees to the dig site and rotate around 180 degrees to make a pile. Then, I can use the loader to move the pile. Sometimes I have to move a pile twice with the backhoe to get access to it. It's not the most efficient, but it's the only way my pea brain can figure out how to get the material where I need it. As you have pointed out many times in your lake thread, it's not only figuring how to dig, but what to do with the spoils that is so tough. In my case, I know exactly where I want the spoils, but I just can't reach that spot with just one dig. I'm glad I'm not payin' me to do this.

I've made a decision on how I'll proceed from here on out. (last attachment) First, I'm going to get the whole clay layer off and stockpiled for my dams. Next, I'll dig down and remove the sugar sand until I get to the hard caliche layer. Finally, I'll drive out on the hard caliche and dig it away. My strategy is "divide and concur."

 

[dcyrilc]

Jim,

I was going to recommend taking it in layers, but it seems like to beat me to the idea.

 

[EddieWalker]

Jim,

Can't argue with your logic. It sounds like you have it figured out and are at it in a well thought out manner.

I enjoyed your drawings. You have really been learning some new tricks since your retirement!!!!!

Eddie

 

[jinman]

Jim,

I was going to recommend taking it in layers, but it seems like to beat me to the idea.

Cyril, at this point, it's the only way that makes sense. Working from above in layers allows me to keep the material types segregated. When digging from below, I always ended up with sand mixed in the clay or didn't get all the clay. Working from above, I can scrape that clay away right down to the sand and have a clear view of my work at all times.

Can't argue with your logic. It sounds like you have it figured out and are at it in a well thought out manner.
I enjoyed your drawings. You have really been learning some new tricks since your retirement!!!!!

Eddie, I'm not sure what "tricks" you are referring to, but quick simple illustrations are what I've done for years. If you mean operating a backhoe, you are absolutely right and I'm having the time of my life planning and doing these ponds. This is just what I've wanted to do since the day I bought this place. Remember my idea of building an underground shop? Well, that idea has gone away and I'm now filling that area with the spoils of pond building. When I finish, I should have a much nicer yard around my house and two ponds to boot. This place just begs to be multiple ponds. Wait until I start taking on the terracing project to get all the water to the ponds. That will be fun too, but much more traditional backhoe work. My little New Holland TC is great for terracing too. I can leave things a bit rough with the backhoe and then come back with the TC to do the finish work. At least I will not have two big ponds and a big pile of spoils I need to get rid of. Everything I take out of the pond can be used to fill in a gully somewhere else. I really hope to improve the value of my land the same as you have done with yours, Eddie. Your improvements may one day be a money maker for you with an RV business, but even if the RV business doesn't happen, your improvements have added tremendous value to your property.

 

[hobie]

Jim and Eddie, It is so enjoyable to read your threads! Nice to see people with a vision for a property, who have the skill and intelligence to realize it. You guys improve the quality of your property for both man and nature. Keep up the great work! Brian

 

[ronjhall]

Remember my idea of building an underground shop?

Shop? Wheres the above ground shop.

 

[jinman]

Shop? Wheres the above ground shop.

STOP IT! You're killin' me.:ashamed::ashamed::ashamed::laughing:

 

[ronjhall]

The :dance1: made me do it.

 

[jinman]

The :dance1: made me do it.

Well, I do have a flat spot cleared off for two carports to put "stuff" under during the build. I also have all the junk cleared from behind the barn and the old 3-wheel utility vehicle pulled out. I've started clearing out the barn in preparation for tearing it down. Progress, albeit slow, is happening. YEA!:thumbsup:

Oh yes. . . I blew a hose going to my backhoe bucket today, so getting it replaced is priority one. These fittings are over twice the size of the one's on the TC. I don't know if I have tools. I may have to make a trip to Harbor Freight. Woohoo!

 

[dcyrilc]

Well, I do have a flat spot cleared off for two carports to put "stuff" under during the build. I also have all the junk cleared from behind the barn and the old 3-wheel utility vehicle pulled out. I've started clearing out the barn in preparation for tearing it down. Progress, albeit slow, is happening. YEA!:thumbsup:

Shouldn't you build either the carports or the shop before tearing down the barn???

 

[jinman]

Shouldn't you build either the carports or the shop before tearing down the barn???

Cyril, have you been eavesdropping on my discussions with my wife? Yes, putting up the carports is exactly what I'm doing to move materials out of the barn before tearing it down. The stuff I've been moving/disposing of lately is trash. It wasn't trash so much when I put it into the barn, but it has been there long enough to turn to trash. I also have several containers of old oil that I'm combining into a 50-gallon drum. What I'm going to put under the carports is a 3-wheel UTV, two old riding mowers (1 Oliver, 1 Gilson) some old metal lawn furniture that belonged to my parents, and some 80 year old wooden office furniture I need to sell or refurb. I have an old roll-around Mosler Safe that weighs probably 500 lb or more and needs to be refinished. Other stuff in the barn is more trash or a lot of electrical wire/boxes/conduit that will probably end up at the metal recyclers. If I can clean out the good stuff from the clutter and get it stashed with easy access, I'll be way ahead of the game. Then, I can tear down the old barn, prepare my site, and call the contractor to get my shop scheduled. All this while I dig and build two ponds...nuttin' to it but to do it.

 

[dcyrilc]

Cyril, have you been eavesdropping on my discussions with my wife? Yes, putting up the carports is exactly what I'm doing to move materials out of the barn before tearing it down. The stuff I've been moving/disposing of lately is trash. It wasn't trash so much when I put it into the barn, but it has been there long enough to turn to trash. I also have several containers of old oil that I'm combining into a 50-gallon drum. What I'm going to put under the carports is a 3-wheel UTV, two old riding mowers (1 Oliver, 1 Gilson) some old metal lawn furniture that belonged to my parents, and some 80 year old wooden office furniture I need to sell or refurb. I have an old roll-around Mosler Safe that weighs probably 500 lb or more and needs to be refinished. Other stuff in the barn is more trash or a lot of electrical wire/boxes/conduit that will probably end up at the metal recyclers. If I can clean out the good stuff from the clutter and get it stashed with easy access, I'll be way ahead of the game. Then, I can tear down the old barn, prepare my site, and call the contractor to get my shop scheduled. All this while I dig and build two ponds...nuttin' to it but to do it.

Nope, we've been talking on the side.:laughing:

You could always do a conversion like I've been doing.

 

[beppington]

Jim, will your ponds be seasonal, or do you expect full-time ponds? The area looks dry; Just wondering where the water's coming from? Spring(s)? Nearby creek?

 

[jinman]

Jim, will your ponds be seasonal, or do you expect full-time ponds? The area looks dry; Just wondering where the water's coming from? Spring(s)? Nearby creek?

That's a great question and one that I haven't done a very good job of explaining in this thread. I've posted some aerial pictures below to show the entire big picture of the project. The first is a picture of my property approximated with the red circle. It is situated just south of a soil conservation lake and water sheds to the lake across my property leaving gullies and valleys from eons of erosion. An area of approximately 50 acres sheds water across me to the lake.

The second picture shows a closeup of my homesite area before I built my house where the dark green grass is beneath the trees. It also shows the gullies really well because of shadows. The final picture shows how water will shed to the ponds I am now building. The blue lines/arrows show where I will terrace to produce directed flow to the ponds. The brown rectangles are the dams I will build to create ponds where the green outlined ovals are. The yellow rectangle is a future project at some later day.

So, the water is all runoff. I will capture most of the runoff in the springtime and the ponds will maintain water all through the dry season if they don't leak out. the reason the area looks very dry now is because all water sheds to the two ponds I own near the lake and drains into the lake and beyond. I just want to capture some of this water before it gets to the lower ponds and lakes. Because of the gullies, I think this area will be a natural great area for fishing. It will certainly not be good for anything else without major excavation and fill. I'd rather have the ponds anyhow. This is essentially my retirement project and may take years to complete.

 

[jinman]

Got my hose replaced yesterday, so I'm back in business. More dirt will be flyin' today.