couple bolts to drill out

[valley]

Greetings, I have two bolts that have broken off where the front driving axle assembly joins the vertical shaft housing. Question: I should be able to take off the front wheel and seperate the housings, drill out the bolts then put the two together? Aside from making a gasket. As I see it in the exploded view just two planetary gears mate. Whats your thought? Thankyou

Richard

 

[beenthere]

I'd carefully drill them out. And I'd use the assembled pieces to start the drilling so the drilled hole was centered on the broken bolt. (that is if the break is flush with the outside part).

 

[Bob Rooks]

If I'm looking at it correctly, it should be a piece of cake.
Use a transfer punch to put a dimple in the exact center of the broken-off bolt and use a 1/4" left hand drill bit to drill it out. You can also use an E-Z Out drill guide and bit. No need to dissasemble the components.

 

[Rich Waugh]

Bob Rooks gave the best method of doing this. I'll add to that that if you spritz the bolts with 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF several minutes before you start drilling they'll quite possibly start backing out as soo as you get the bit down a 1/4"r so. Left-hand drill bits and the transfer punches are available from McMaster-Carr, Grainger, even Harbor Freight and are a great way to remove broken bolts. Unlike EZ-outs, the left hand drills don't tend to expand the broken bolt in the hole.

Rich

 

[valley]

beenthere, "Assembled pieces" Do you mean the broken bolts?
Bob "Transfer punch" Is that like a drift punch with a
centered tit? Not having to teardown would be a treat!

Rich "I'll try Harbor Freight for that left handed drill, never heard of that,
acetone and ATF? I will try it.

Not having to dissesamble would be sweet!

 

[Bob Rooks]

beenthere, "Assembled pieces" Do you mean the broken bolts?
Bob "Transfer punch" Is that like a drift punch with a
centered tit? Not having to teardown would be a treat!

Rich "I'll try Harbor Freight for that left handed drill, never heard of that,
acetone and ATF? I will try it.

Not having to dissesamble would be sweet!

Transfer punches:transfer punch - Google Search
and Search results for: 'transfer punch', and Search results for: 'left hand drill'

All stuff that a well-oiled mechanic will have in the tool box. It's not a matter of "IF" you run across a broken bolt, but "WHEN" :laughing:

I try to avoid using the broken off bolt hole as a drill guide because you can accidentally ream it out to a larger size, compromising the lateral clamping ability.

 

[Rich Waugh]

Valley, just a quick note that transfer punches are NOT center punches and shouldn't be used as such. You just want to tap it hard enough to make a dimple you can use to locate the point of center punch in. You can re-grind a center punch pretty easily, but a transfer punch takes a lathe to re-grind properly.

 

[valley]

Rich, Transfer punches are here, all these were made on a lathe from drift punches, I don't have a lathe available at this time. The bolt had to break off fairly flat to use them. The one bolt I have recovered has a sholder that might prevent their use.
I've never had trouble removing broken bolts, but am not looking forward tearing down even for a small job with so much else to do, haven't crawled in there with a light to look but I have to admitt to myself there is a good chance it will have to open it up. Wish I had seen it this summer.
The use of a left handed twist drill sounds good, I don't have one in the shop but will get a set next time I leave the hill.
beenthere's idea: using the bolt as a guide is good I may drill the one I have out on the press.

 

[Rich Waugh]

Transfer punches made from drift punches may or may not be hard enough to dimple a bot, depending on the grade of the bolt and whether or not the punches were heat treated after turning. Drift punches aren't typically real hard, and if they could be easily turned n a lathe that would confirm my guess they're fairly soft. If the bolt has sheared off at an angle too steep to allow the use of a standard transfer punch you may be able to grind a center punch to where the shank is cylindrical far enough back for the point to function okay, or you may have to run a flat-ended cylindrical burr in there to dress the end of the bolt.

Rich

 

[SpudHauler]

A dremel is also good at making a flat area to allow the center punch to work properly. Then left hand drills are great.

 

[jbooth]

Used to make transfer punchs out of common old concrete rebar. After shaping on a lathe heated the tip to cherry red and quenched in water. Very low tech, but the rebar has enough carbon in it to harden nicely. Hardest part was not getting the very tip to hot and melt. Be sure to direct the flame away from the very tip. Haven't made any new ones for 25 or more years so don't know if todays rebar will still work.

 

[Rich Waugh]

Today's rebar often has a lot of tramp elements in it and can be anywhere from medium hard to harder than woodpecker lips and impossible to turn without carbide cutters. Never know what you're going to get other than it will meet the specs for tensile strength. It is all re-melt stock, no new stuff at all anymore.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Today's rebar often has a lot of tramp elements in it and can be anywhere from medium hard to harder than woodpecker lips and impossible to turn without carbide cutters. Never know what you're going to get other than it will meet the specs for tensile strength. It is all re-melt stock, no new stuff at all anymore.

Sorry Rich. All rebar used on US Interstate highway bridges, overpasses, tunnels, etc. are epoxy covered and formed from pedigree steel. The rebar you get at hardware stores, however, is another story and undoubtedly has ambiguous and questionable origins..

 

[jbooth]

Everybody asks for pictures. This is a 5/8" transfer punch made from rebar as stated in a past post by me in this thread. This one has seen a lot of action and should last forever if it is only smacked hard enough to to make a mark to be enlarged by a regular center punch. There seems to be some question about the rebar that is available today. Transfer punches are pretty inexpensive when purchase from firms like Enco. Didn't trust my photography skills enough to go for a close up of the point.

 

[mrutkaus]

Time heals all wounds. I once soaked bolts in various solutions for a month or two using tubing and foil to create wells to keep it soaking. Worked for me.

Mike

 

[Rich Waugh]

Jbooth,

You did a really nice job of making that transfer punch. I can't imagine having the time to make a full set that way, but they would sure look really cool.

Bob Rooks,

Yeah, you can get rebar to *any* spec you really want - if you buy a full heat. The Highway Administration has a set f specs for the rebar to be used on Federally funded projects and the steel mills follow it if they want to be able to sell their steel to builders of Federal projects. You probably aren't going to find that rebar at Home Depot, though.

I was speaking only to the stuff that 90 percent of the people here will be able to obtain locally, that is, hardware store/lumber yard rebar. Some of the stuff the big box stores are importing and selling won't even meet minimum tensile strength and bend radius specs, from what I've heard, but again they're getting just what they order - no specs at all other than it has to look like rebar. :confused2:

My fundamental point was that if you want a steel that behaves in a certain way you need to buy a known alloy or see the actual specs for that particular melt. Anything else is a crapshoot. I see people get caught in this trap time after time buying steel from the local hardware store and then expecting it to perform like chrome-moly tool steel.

Rich

 

[valley]

jbooth, Nice to see that. We made our drifts from rolled steel stock, transfer punches we heated and quenched. Some guys quenched in oil, had to be done outside the building, seemed to work well.
Thanks for showing that bit of work! I have tools Dad made in the 20's they are very special to me.

Richard

 

[jbooth]

Thanks Rich Waugh, I built those back when I was still trying to teach myself some things. I checked tonight and a 28 piece set can be had for as little as $9.95 up to $29.95. My wage would be less than $.25 an hr if I made them today. I still have 2 lathes, a mill, and shaper, but don't do much due to fading eyesight and a love for the recliner.

 

[Bob Rooks]

View attachment 184985

Everybody asks for pictures. This is a 5/8" transfer punch made from rebar as stated in a past post by me in this thread. This one has seen a lot of action and should last forever if it is only smacked hard enough to to make a mark to be enlarged by a regular center punch. There seems to be some question about the rebar that is available today. Transfer punches are pretty inexpensive when purchase from firms like Enco. Didn't trust my photography skills enough to go for a close up of the point.

Very nice job Mr. Booth :thumbsup: I like the non-slip handle.

 

[Bob Rooks]

My fundamental point was that if you want a steel that behaves in a certain way you need to buy a known alloy or see the actual specs for that particular melt. Anything else is a crapshoot. I see people get caught in this trap time after time buying steel from the local hardware store and then expecting it to perform like chrome-moly tool steel.

Rich

Point taken Rich, and I totally concur.