Hi all. Hoping someone can give me some insight on some issues i'm having with my dad's 4410. About 2 weeks ago he called me up saying it wouldn't start. Stoped by and it just wouldn't crank. We threw some jumpers on it and it still wouldn't crank. i checked the battery and i had about 10v. so i told him to go get a new battery as this was the original and was about 4years old or so. Replaced the battery and all was good for about a week and then it did the same thing. So i'm thinking did we just get a faulty battery? so he went and exchanged it for another new one and all was good till yesterday. Something just isn't right here? seems like something is putting a drain on the battery or shortly it out or something. Any suggestions on where to start looking?
trouble with 4410 starting
- Thread starter NGA
- Start date
- Views: 6000
beenthere
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2001
- Messages
- 18,649
- Location
- Southern Wisconsin, USA
- Tractor
- JD_4x2_Gator, JD_4300, JD_425, JD_455 AWS, added JD_455, JD_110, JD_X485(sold)
:welcome:
Do you have the tech. manual (CD version or paper copy) available for the 4410?
Are you familiar with troubleshooting, and doing mechanical work? Just curious as a place to start here.
Also, is the 4410 the ehydro?
Are you able to work on the tractor, or doing the assist long distance?
Done any searching of TBN for the starting problem (include 4310 at least)?
Do you have the tech. manual (CD version or paper copy) available for the 4410?
Are you familiar with troubleshooting, and doing mechanical work? Just curious as a place to start here.
Also, is the 4410 the ehydro?
Are you able to work on the tractor, or doing the assist long distance?
Done any searching of TBN for the starting problem (include 4310 at least)?
Last edited:
JD755
Platinum Member
With just the little information so far, I would guess a strong chance of alternator problems. If you can somehow get it started again, can you measure the battery voltage while running to see if it is getting charged. To expand on beenthere's questions, can you do electrical troubleshooting? I attached just a portion of the schematic to show the battery and alternator connections.
Attachments
sorry no tech. manual. I am doing the work via in person not over the phone. I consider myself a hobbyist mechanic. my father on the other hand is fantastic at woodworking but not mechaical things so i offered to help. not an expert but can usually work through a problem with the right tools and help. I can generally work through electrical schematics. I'll try to get it started today after work and see if its charging properly . Do you know what the correct charging v's/amps should be. also this model is ehydro. to me it just seems very odd that it wouldn't take a jump when this first came about and thats when we replaced the battery.
JD755
Platinum Member
JD755
Platinum Member
Typically with use it is vibration and shock over time. An individual cell will collapse and short. Similar results can occur if a battery is allowed to fully discharge, or is overcharged. Alternators/voltage regulators can be the source of those problems. You should also pop the cell covers to see if each one has sufficient acid.
ok, i just stopped over to look at his tractor on my lunch break. He told me that once again it won't take a jump. i checked the battery and got 12.1v's. So if its the alternator it just fried another brand new battery. i guess my next step will be to take teh alternator off and have it tested since i can't get it started to check to see how much it is charging. agree?
beenthere
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2001
- Messages
- 18,649
- Location
- Southern Wisconsin, USA
- Tractor
- JD_4x2_Gator, JD_4300, JD_425, JD_455 AWS, added JD_455, JD_110, JD_X485(sold)
And take the battery in to get it tested too, to be sure it is, or isn't fried.
I'd suggest getting the ~$75 CD for the 4410. It will help you with being more comfortable checking the different possibilities out in the future. You will get good detail such as JD755 has posted.
I'd suggest getting the ~$75 CD for the 4410. It will help you with being more comfortable checking the different possibilities out in the future. You will get good detail such as JD755 has posted.
arrabil
Veteran Member
You have a multimeter? Put it in diode check mode and put the probes to positive and negative. If it reads continuous, you have a short.
Otherwise, I agree with JD755, you have a bad alternator.
Otherwise, I agree with JD755, you have a bad alternator.
ok, i'm not super fimiliar with diode check mode, but from what i gathered off of google, i tested a good Double A battery and got 1.2 and i tested the JD battery another nothing, just 1. this is with it out of the tractor as well. does this sound right?
JD755
Platinum Member
So you are saying that with the meter in normal mode to read voltages, the battery only reads one volt when it is out of the tractor. That's a significant failure caused by something. Did you check under the cell caps for acid level? Alternator/regulator problems could have boiled it dry. Or it might not have been properly filled to start with. Do you have a battery charger to see if it will take a charge? If it can be charged again, you may be able to start the tractor long enough to measure charging voltage. However, many modern battery chargers will not activate if the battery voltage is only one volt to begin with.
There could be a fault in the alternator that is draining the battery full time even when the key is off. Was there a significant spark at the terminal when you first connected the new battery? That could indicate a large current draw from a short.
There could be a fault in the alternator that is draining the battery full time even when the key is off. Was there a significant spark at the terminal when you first connected the new battery? That could indicate a large current draw from a short.
when i read DC v with the multimeter out of the tractor i get 12.54v. when i goto the diode check mode on the multimeter i get 1. it is quite possible i am doing somethinig wrong as i have never done that before. here is the link i used to check the diode
Meter check of a diode : DIODES AND RECTIFIERS
Meter check of a diode : DIODES AND RECTIFIERS
JD755
Platinum Member
Diode check mode is not used to test the battery. In that mode the meter is providing voltage to the leads to check directional continuity of a circuit. This would be for connecting to the battery cables without the battery connected, looking for a short on the tractor.
JD755
Platinum Member
I would just start with the meter in standard ohms settings. Connected across the cables it should not show a low resistance on any range. Then reverse the leads and check all ohm ranges again. Record your readings. The lower meter ranges will typically provide higher current level (still very low) to the leads. One of those lower ranges may even have a diode symbol indicating that. That just has to do with providing enough current to activate diodes in the circuit but I don't think that's a concern here. Sounds like we are looking for a short that will show up on any range. That diode check could be used later for troubleshooting the alternator/regulator diodes.
arrabil
Veteran Member
On my Fluke, you use diode check mode for determining connectivity. When you touch the probes to two points without connectivity, the display reads a steady "0L". If they have connectivity it changes to "0.0003" or similar and it'll jump around.
NGA, figure out what your two different displays for connectivity and no connectivity are, then with everything hooked up, see if you show connectivity between positive and ground in a few places (including the battery). If you do, there is definitely a short.
JD755
Platinum Member
You are using it as a basic continuity tester and that's not really what diode mode is for. It is the same as all those other ohm ranges, but provides sufficient current to cause a junction diode to allow the current to flow through it. Other ranges may not provide that, and provide a false check of a semiconductor component. For example when connected to a good diode it should show conductivity in one direction and not in the other. Insufficient current testing could falsely show no conduction in either direction.
By using the various ohms ranges you can determine if the tractor has a continuous load connected, and how much. 100,00 ohms is not a problem, but 100 ohms would be. Just looking for continuity may not show that 100 ohm load.
Any meter should never be connected across a voltage such as the battery when in ohms mode. It is a low impedance load then and can be damaged from the excess current through it.
Edit. Some meters, as shown in the link from NGA, may also have a dedicated " Diode Check" switch position on the meter. This would not be one of the resistance ranges, but a separate position with no number markings. That position cannot show resistance, but is used to show the voltage drop across a diode. For troubleshooting, it definitely is only good for working directly on semiconductor components.
Last edited:
