Heavy Duty Pickup Shootout

[dodge man]

As usual people pick what they want on these tests. They latch onto what ever stat from the table they can and say that makes their truck the best. The truth is that the unbiased authors picked the Ford in the 3/4 ton gas, and Chevy won the rest.

 

[Dargo]

Even though GM "won" the competition in this article, it has little bearing on how sales will be. After getting burned on stocks by Government Motors, I wouldn't consider one. As many know, GM is soon coming out with a new IPO for their stock, hoping to raise 12 to 16 billion. If they don't, they admit that they could be in trouble again. Read the "Risks and Challenges" in this article that came out yesterday http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100818/OEM/100819878/1018

With so many "what if's", no way I'm up for losing with that company again. Not just on stocks, but with a possibility of parts problems and, honestly, them being broken up and sold off in pieces.

 

[FlaDon]

Even though GM "won" the competition in this article, it has little bearing on how sales will be. After getting burned on stocks by Government Motors, I wouldn't consider one. As many know, GM is soon coming out with a new IPO for their stock, hoping to raise 12 to 16 billion. If they don't, they admit that they could be in trouble again. Read the "Risks and Challenges" in this article that came out yesterday http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100818/OEM/100819878/1018

With so many "what if's", no way I'm up for losing with that company again. Not just on stocks, but with a possibility of parts problems and, honestly, them being broken up and sold off in pieces.

Yep. Until GM is out from under the Gov't imposed union ownership and Gov't stock ownership, many won't buy even if the GMs are better.

 

[Marlowe]

I really like these comparisons but the proof is in longevity to me. Let's check back in ten years or so and see which truck is still hauling the loads. Now that's impressive to me.

 

[77bronco]

. If you really want a truck to tow/haul more then get a class 5, 6, or 7 truck.

The problem is that even in the Dodge 5500 the GCWR is 26k. What good does it do to have a truck with a 19k GVW if you can only add another 6k in trailer weight? It seems to me that any 550/5500 should have at least a 30-33k GCWR, just to use the capacity of the truck, otherwise why buy any thing bigger than a 1 ton?

 

[Dmace]

The problem is that even in the Dodge 5500 the GCWR is 26k. What good does it do to have a truck with a 19k GVW if you can only add another 6k in trailer weight? It seems to me that any 550/5500 should have at least a 30-33k GCWR, just to use the capacity of the truck, otherwise why buy any thing bigger than a 1 ton?

The point of the 4500/5500 series trucks is the much higher payload. Typical 1-ton GVWR is around 13k lbs vs 19.5k lbs on the RAM 5500/F-550. (Payload=GVWR-Curb Weight). The 1-ton trucks are limited to around 6,500lbs payload vs. over 11,000lbs for the RAM 5500/F-550.

 

[flusher]

The point of the 4500/5500 series trucks is the much higher payload. Typical 1-ton GVWR is around 13k lbs vs 19.5k lbs on the RAM 5500/F-550. (Payload=GVWR-Curb Weight). The 1-ton trucks are limited to around 6,500lbs payload vs. over 11,000lbs for the RAM 5500/F-550.

Same with GMC--the 1-ton Sierras are pickups designed for towing not toting. The 4500 series is a rebadged Isuzu NPR most often seen in box truck configurations (furniture delivery trucks, etc), not trailer towing.

 

[Dargo]

I really like these comparisons but the proof is in longevity to me. Let's check back in ten years or so and see which truck is still hauling the loads. Now that's impressive to me.

Yup. My old '96 Dodge sure passed that test with the only real issues being the transmission (after power increase to make the truck haul like I wanted) and for some reason these trucks are known for eating front "track bars". The track bar seemed to need to be replaced about every year and a half and both independent and dealer techs told me that such was "normal". It was annoying and cost me about $200 each time.

Otherwise, you couldn't bump the key fast enough for it to not start and it never needed engine work. After 10 years and a couple hundred thousand miles, I just decide it's time to move to a newer truck. My older Chevy with the 6.5 diesel actually ran well (contrary to what most people say about them), but kept having injection pump issues that made it unreliable. I'm a little over 2 years into my '06 F350 with the 6.0 PSD and I really love this truck. It had an initial oil leak (covered under warranty) when I first bought it, but has been flawless since even with a considerable boost in power when needed/desired.

 

[77bronco]

The point of the 4500/5500 series trucks is the much higher payload. Typical 1-ton GVWR is around 13k lbs vs 19.5k lbs on the RAM 5500/F-550. (Payload=GVWR-Curb Weight). The 1-ton trucks are limited to around 6,500lbs payload vs. over 11,000lbs for the RAM 5500/F-550.

The implication here is that you either haul or tow, not both. Not always the case.
As an example, when I was a kid I worked for a fencing contractor. We had a new '79 F-350 with a 12 ft bed. We hauled a unit of posts (approx 144), 2 tons of con mix, 10-12 bags of portland cement, all of our tools, and a mixer mounted on the back of the truck. Then we hooked up the 18' Zeiman equipment trailer with a Bobcat and a couple of attachments. Were we overloaded? You bet, just the truck was probably 2-3k over GVW then add the trailer and Bobcat and we were probably over the GCWR by a few thousand.
The point is very few of the people that buy the 450/550 class of truck are going to just tow or haul with it. Most contractors are going to run the truck at or near gross and pull a trailer with a Bobcat or tractor, so only having 6-7k of actual towing capacity is a waste on a truck of the size.
Personally,I think that if you are going to claim your truck has a 17-22k towing capacity, it should be over and above the GVW of the truck.

 

[Dmace]

Personally,I think that if you are going to claim your truck has a 17-22k towing capacity, it should be over and above the GVW of the truck.

Again, it all comes down to CDL requirements.

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Commercial Driver's License Program (CDL/CDLIS) - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

ANY vehicle that has a GCWR of over 26,000lbs cannot tow a trailer over 10,000lbs without a CDL-A license. So if you want to obey the law then that Ford with a GCWR of 29k,30k, or 33k lbs can only tow 10,000lbs UNLESS YOU HAVE A CDL-A LICENSE.
That Dodge RAM with a 26,000lb GCWR can tow it's full capacity of 17k lbs WITHOUT A CDL. Ford Super Duty's only have a max tow capacity of 15.7k lbs when under 26,000lbs GCWR. Their GCWR goes from 23,400 to 29,000 with nothing in between.
Like I've said a million times, it a numbers game that Ford likes to play and unless you have a CDL or don't want to obey the law then you can not haul as much as they make you think you can. Of course if you do get that CDL license then the higher GCWR comes in handy.

 

[Dargo]

A CDL is no big deal. I've seen people with an IQ of room temperature breeze through getting one. However, one HUGE misconception is when it comes to crossing state lines. Here is a DOT quote "A CDL license can ONLY be issued in the driver's STATE OF LEGAL RESIDENCE, and if you have a CDL, you can have NO OTHER DRIVER'S LICENSE in ANY other state.

Many read that as meaning that your CDL is only good in your home state. It's actually a trick question on the CDL test. It simply means that you may not have a regular driver's license in another state. I'm not sure where that would really apply.

 

[Dargo]

ANY vehicle that has a GCWR of over 26,000lbs cannot tow a trailer over 10,000lbs without a CDL-A license.

Not exactly. Here is what it reads in my old handbook from when I was licensed: "A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs." You have to have a CDL anyway when "a vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs." So, if you'd have to have one anyway. However, if your manufacturer's GCWR is under 26k, you can tow up to that rating without a CDL.

One "exception" that kills me is the one for motor coaches. That exception states "Individuals ....operating motor homes or other vehicles used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non business purposes." Some old people driving 35k motor coaches shouldn't be driving a 3500 pound car!

 

[Dmace]

A CDL is no big deal. I've seen people with an IQ of room temperature breeze through getting one. However, one HUGE misconception is when it comes to crossing state lines. Here is a DOT quote "A CDL license can ONLY be issued in the driver's STATE OF LEGAL RESIDENCE, and if you have a CDL, you can have NO OTHER DRIVER'S LICENSE in ANY other state.

I live 3 miles from the boarder of one state and 11 from the boarder of another state. If I wanted to travel around there, it gets a bit more cumbersome.

That does not mean your CDL license is in-valid in any other state, it just means you cannot have more than one license. So you cannot get a DWI or something and have your Michigan CDL license suspended but keep driving with the CDL license you got in Ohio. Think Over-The-Road drivers, they constantly go cross country but only have a CDL license issued from the state they currently reside in.
Yes, getting a CDL is easy but maintaining it (extra cost of renewal, DOT health screening, testing for endorsements, etc...) can be a pain.

Not exactly. Here is what it reads in my old handbook from when I was licensed: "A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs." You still have to pass 26k with the trailer weight added.

That's exactly what I said, you need a CDL when the "unit being towed is over 10,000 lbs AND THE TRUCK'S GCWR EXCEEDS 26,000lbs". So these Ford's with 29k plus GCWR's are limited to 10k lbs towing without a CDL.

 

[Dargo]

That does not mean your CDL license is in-valid in any other state, it just means you cannot have more than one license. So you cannot get a DWI or something and have your Michigan CDL license suspended but keep driving with the CDL license you got in Ohio. Think Over-The-Road drivers, they constantly go cross country but only have a CDL license issued from the state they currently reside in.
Yes, getting a CDL is easy but maintaining it (extra cost of renewal, DOT health screening, testing for endorsements, etc...) can be a pain.

You replied before I re-phrased what I meant. With "farms" in different states, I have to license that equipment in the state where the equipment primarily resides. Making sure I meet the farm exemptions for CDL licenses and making sure I keep the right truck licensed in the right state etc. gets me really twisted at times if I don't pay attention; especially when some vehicles from the same manufacturer are the the same model year. I've sent in renewals to the wrong state before and actually gotten a plate from the wrong state! Duh!!

 

[medicshawn]

But don't some states have exemptions to the CDL requirement for RV type trailers. Aren't there also farming exemptions. In Virginia there are exemptions for emergency vehicles like fire trucks. So there is a class of people who can buy these vehicles and not have to worry about these requirements.

 

[Duffster]

We obviously have a slow learner in the CDL class.:laughing:

 

[77bronco]

Again, it all comes down to CDL requirements.
ANY vehicle that has a GCWR of over 26,000lbs cannot tow a trailer over 10,000lbs without a CDL-A license. So if you want to obey the law then that Ford with a GCWR of 29k,30k, or 33k lbs can only tow 10,000lbs UNLESS YOU HAVE A CDL-A LICENSE.
That Dodge RAM with a 26,000lb GCWR can tow it's full capacity of 17k lbs WITHOUT A CDL. Ford Super Duty's only have a max tow capacity of 15.7k lbs when under 26,000lbs GCWR. Their GCWR goes from 23,400 to 29,000 with nothing in between.
Like I've said a million times, it a numbers game that Ford likes to play and unless you have a CDL or don't want to obey the law then you can not haul as much as they make you think you can. Of course if you do get that CDL license then the higher GCWR comes in handy.

I don't see how that Dodge 5500 can tow it's max weight and stay under 26k, when it's base curb weight ranges from 7950 to 8300 lbs. When you add a flatbed and 2-4 people and the junk (tools)they are going to be carrying you would be hard pressed to keep the truck under 10-11k, so there goes your 17.6k towing.
Everyone knows that the max towing is figured on the stripped regular cab 4X2 w/ the shortest WB offered.

Oh, and forget the CDL BS, that's got nothing to do with towing capacity, either you get one or you don't. Your choice on whether you want to be "legal" or take your chances on getting stopped.
But realistically if you're going tow over about 14-15k you should be using a class 6 or 7 truck regardless of what the MFG say their trucks can do....

 

[doall]

if a 2500 or 3500 is perfectly capable of towing 15000, why a 6 or 7 series truck? The newer HD trucks with trailer brakes and plenty of power seem to get it done pretty easy.

 

[Duffster]

Again, it all comes down to CDL requirements.
ANY vehicle that has a GCWR of over 26,000lbs cannot tow a trailer over 10,000lbs without a CDL-A license. So if you want to obey the law then that Ford with a GCWR of 29k,30k, or 33k lbs can only tow 10,000lbs UNLESS YOU HAVE A CDL-A LICENSE.

You know dang well that isn't the GCWR they are talking about.

Quick question.

Say you have a Dodge 3500 with a 13k GVWR/26k GCWR towing a 14k GVWR trailer, what class license would you need?

Now take a F350 with a 13k GVWR/29k GCWR towing a 14k GVWR trailer, now what class of license would you need?

 

[doall]

just tell us. Regular license?